Smoking onboard the train

[BrianTheLion]

On saturday I was on the 15:30 Edinburgh to York EC service. Suddenly I hear an announcement reminding passengers about it being an offence to smoke onboard the train.

It turns out some idiot was caught smoking in the disabled toilets.

The announcement was then followed by something along the lines of... "anyone found to be smoking onboard will be invited to leave at the next station either of their own accord or with the assistance of BTP"

Out of curiousity, what exactly will happen to this individual?

I've never come across this situation before. I didn't think in 2013 people we're still stupid enough to try these things!

 

[Buttsy]

On saturday I was on the 15:30 Edinburgh to York EC service. Suddenly I hear an announcement reminding passengers about it being an offence to smoke onboard the train.

It turns out some idiot was caught smoking in the disabled toilets.

The announcement was then followed by something along the lines of... "anyone found to be smoking onboard will be invited to leave at the next station either of their own accord or with the assistance of BTP"

Out of curiousity, what exactly will happen to this individual?

I've never come across this situation before. I didn't think in 2013 people we're still stupid enough to try these things!

Happened on a train from Stirling I was on in Scotland 2-3 years back. Guard was going to throw them off at Perth (they ended up sitting near me), but the got off there anyhow (I'd gotten off to have a wander round before the Inverness train).

 

[hairyhandedfool]

....Out of curiousity, what exactly will happen to this individual?....

If the BTP are called, I expect they'll be carted off somewhere, if not, they'll probably get on the next train.

....I've never come across this situation before. I didn't think in 2013 people we're still stupid enough to try these things!

It's far more common then you'd think!

 

[Flamingo]

I believe an £80 fine is the usual response from BTP. Personally I've put people off the train before now for this, I'm not having my train set on fire by some bloody fool and all the paperwork that would go with that....

(and before anyone says I'm being dramatic, I've known two trains to have fires on them from smokers).

 

[TDK]

Different situation but someone had a cigarette on an Easyjet flight to the Canaries and they actually threatened to divert the flight to Lisbon. The individual was not identified but it is the case of using the passengers to sort out your problems as there were some very angry passengers on that flight looking at all the people who had been to the loo over the 10 minutes before the announcement. I have had passengers smoking before on the train and usually made the same sort of announcements.

 

[broadgage]

I believe an £80 fine is the usual response from BTP. Personally I've put people off the train before now for this, I'm not having my train set on fire by some bloody fool and all the paperwork that would go with that....

(and before anyone says I'm being dramatic, I've known two trains to have fires on them from smokers).

I doubt that a serious fire would result from smoking, which after all was permitted not that many years ago without much extra fire risk.
It could be argued that the recent smoking ban has increased the fire risk since those unable to go without now smoke in the toilets and probably place glowing fag ends into the waste bin that contains paper.
In the past they could have smoked legally in the smoking coach and used the proper ash trays provided.

 

[Buttsy]

In the past they could have smoked legally in the smoking coach and used the proper ash trays provided.

If they could be bothered. Smokers still stub out cigarettes on the pavement and therefore are littering. Often in old MK1s & Mk2s you'd see holes burnt into the carpet where they've missed or not bothered with the ashtray and had stamped it out.

 

[Flamingo]

I doubt that a serious fire would result from smoking, which after all was permitted not that many years ago without much extra fire risk.
It could be argued that the recent smoking ban has increased the fire risk since those unable to go without now smoke in the toilets and probably place glowing fag ends into the waste bin that contains paper.

Exactly!

What's your definition of a serious fire?

Any fire or suspicision of fire on a train involves stopping the train and closing all adjacent running lines until the all-clear has been given by the fire service and possibly requiring a fitter to inspect the train to ensure no structural damage before the train is allowed to proceed at a reduced speed to the next station where it will probably terminate, with the delay to all trains behind.

Lots of hassle and inconvenience, all for someone who was dying for a fag. And that's a fire that may have been small and contained in a bin - because it can become big and setting a whole (wooden) carriage on fire in 30seconds or so.

 

[Tom B]

I doubt that a serious fire would result from smoking, which after all was permitted not that many years ago without much extra fire risk.
It could be argued that the recent smoking ban has increased the fire risk since those unable to go without now smoke in the toilets and probably place glowing fag ends into the waste bin that contains paper.
In the past they could have smoked legally in the smoking coach and used the proper ash trays provided.

The smoking ban has not increased the fire risk. Idiots who flout the rules may have.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

I doubt that a serious fire would result from smoking....

Not wishing to sound argumentative here, but people probably thought the same sort of thing on 22nd November 1984, 10th May 1985 and 17th November 1987.

 

[Michael.Y]

Happens all the time. I have discovered people smoking in both disabled and normal toilets, and even in the guards vestibule in the centre of two conjoined 150 units. Some don't even bother to hide the fact.

Someone actually lit up in their seat a few months back.

 

[fireftrm]

These people should be thrown off the train, prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law and banned from all forms of public transport until they can prove they have given up smoking. Whilst there is no doubt some Railway byelaw remember that smoking in public places is also illegal in general criminal law, I believe it is a £2000 fine? I would be seeking that plus any costs to the Railway - so delay minutes incurred for all services. I would also hold the individual somewhere where they cannot get a cigarette for long enough that they suffer the effects of lack of nicotine. There is nothing worse that such anti-social behaviour, vandalism is all it is at best......

 

[andyfrommk]

I believe an £80 fine is the usual response from BTP.

£80? A VT Train manager told me it could be £4000!
I wasn't the smoker, I was standing in the vestibule and I could smell cigarette smoke, it was the air-con-sucking in toilet fumes again!

Of course the TM was notified by an alarm, he came up and asked who just came out of the toilet, being a goody-two-shoes I gave a description( tall guy, yellow jumper, ginger hair) and off he went, after a couple of minutes I walked down to see if he had the person, he had, and then we had a chat and he told me the fine could be as much as £4000 and that he viewed it as someone smoking in his place of work.

This was on the last VT out of Euston so if he was turfed off at MKC and only had a ticket valid for that day it would not be as easy as getting the next train.

 

[yorkie]

I doubt that a serious fire would result from smoking,...

Some very serious fires have resulted from smoking (including perhaps the most famous of them all). We should not need reminding...

Not only is it dangerous but it's incredibly disrespectful. No-one wants to breath in those awful fumes, and some people have an intolerance. It's completely unacceptable to smoke on a train and I will report or have a go at anyone I see doing it.

 

[Pumbaa]

No-one wants to breath in those awful fumes

About 1/7th of the population may take exception to that. I'm sure smokers have no objection whatsoever.

 

[ValleyLines142]

It is highly dangerous, especially if young children or babies inhale the smoke.

 

[route:oxford]

This was on the last VT out of Euston so if he was turfed off at MKC and only had a ticket valid for that day it would not be as easy as getting the next train.

So if it were an "advance" ticket, potentially fined for stopping short too?

 

[yorkie]

So if it were an "advance" ticket, potentially fined for stopping short too?

You cannot be fined, (or charged a Penalty Fare, which I appreciate is seen as similar to a fine) for stopping short. An excess fare can be charged, though in practice this is rare (and can lead to newspaper headlines when it occurs).

 

[8J]

I've seen some people smoking out of the window of the Pretendolino. If it is outside, is it legal?

 

[andyfrommk]

So if it were an "advance" ticket, potentially fined for stopping short too?

Doubt it, the ticket barriers are locked open at that time.
However, even if he had an 'any permitted' ticket it would not be valid, even on LM, because the day would have rolled over

I've seen some people smoking out of the window of the Pretendolino. If it is outside, is it legal?

Can't imagine a cigarette lasting long in 100MPH winds

 

[CC 72100]

I've seen some people smoking out of the window of the Pretendolino. If it is outside, is it legal?

Also seen somebody do it on the Night Riviera whilst crossing the Tamar bridge. Doubt it's legal. Isn't a station platform 'outside' but also no smoking?

 

[8J]

Some platforms allow smoking, notably all of the merseyrail outdoor platforms, but I doubt the pretendolino would ever grace merseyrail metals...

 

[BestWestern]

About 1/7th of the population may take exception to that. I'm sure smokers have no objection whatsoever.

I'm sure they don't. But thankfully - as has been discussed at length before - the law of the land recognises that those who don't wish to breath it in have a greater right than those who wish to belch it out :roll:

 

[Phil6219]

Wasn't there a train fire in Scotland which they suspect was caused by a lit cigarette igniting the gangway between two carriages? I'm sure it was a Edinburgh to Glasgow 47/DBSO deal, I read the report a few months back when researching something else.

On the subject of people smoking on planes, we had an incident a few years ago where someone had been smoking in the toilet. We had to check the waste bin (never a pleasant experience) to see if it had been disposed of in there, it became apparent that it had been flushed away. We knew who it was but without the cigarette butt we could not prove it and would be unable to prosecute (or divert and hand over to the "Guardia Civil" who would be most welcoming). Instead the skipper made a PA along the lines of "smoking is dangerous and has caused serious fires in the past, we know who it is and you will be reported etc..." We noted the suspect slide down in his seat at this point.

Once we reached our destination and had started to disembark passengers via the steps three rather burly blokes followed him off the aircraft, clearly challenged said suspect and one punched him (you could hear the punch from the top of the stairs), the guy went down in one while the rest of the passengers clapped... I worked the same flight a fortnight later and asked met the bloke who threw the punch, he said he was not happy at having the lives of his family risked by an idiot smoking in the toilet on an aircraft. Needless to say he got a handshake and a free drink

Smoking is one of the leading causes of fires in this country, if not the leading cause. While I am not going to go on a moral rant (after all it's their poison, mine's drink) the dangers of discarding a cigarette incorrectly can cause serious fires be it in a house, flat, hotel, car, train, plane or ship. There is a reason smoking was banned on aircraft and believe me we used to take a very dim view of it.

Also the amount of times I've ended up putting out rubbish bins that have been ignited by a ciggie I've lost count now, one was so bad a bucket of water was out of the question and it took two fire extinguishers - on the plus side I envisioned myself as Kurt Russel in Backdraft whilst running through my shop wielding said device

Phil

 

[yorksrob]

Once we reached our destination and had started to disembark passengers via the steps three rather burly blokes followed him off the aircraft, clearly challenged said suspect and one punched him (you could hear the punch from the top of the stairs), the guy went down in one while the rest of the passengers clapped... I worked the same flight a fortnight later and asked met the bloke who threw the punch, he said he was not happy at having the lives of his family risked by an idiot smoking in the toilet on an aircraft. Needless to say he got a handshake and a free drink

I don't condone breaking the rules but summary violence does seem a very extreme reaction for something which clearly wasn't regarded as a threat to life and limb on planes, trains or anywhere else for years and years.

 

[Railsigns]

I've seen some people smoking out of the window of the Pretendolino. If it is outside, is it legal?

No, that's still an offence under Railway Byelaw 3 (the words "on or near" apply).

A friend told me he once saw one Charles Kennedy MP having an illegal puff while hanging out the window of the Caledonian Sleeper. Allegedly.

 

[user15681]

Got an interesting question here. I was stuck on a train at CBE station a year or so back, it was a 375 in the peak, stuck due to a cracked rail. A very violent and drunk women was getting angry at the ongoing delay and proceeded to light a cigarette. She smoked the whole thing without a single alarm going off, without a single visit or message from the guard. Surely, it would have been noticed by some alarm or feature, right?

 

[fairysdad]

Reminds me of a while ago, either on an SWT train into Waterloo or an XC train to Reading... the manual announcement came over the tannoy: "May I remind passengers that smoking is not permitted on this service. This includes in the vestibules and the toilets, specifically the toilets at the rear of Coach C."

I wonder where somebody had just been caught smoking...

 

[soil]

I don't condone breaking the rules but summary violence does seem a very extreme reaction for something which clearly wasn't regarded as a threat to life and limb on planes, trains or anywhere else for years and years.

Seems fair enough to me. They could have ruined their holiday, fire or not.

 

[Butts]

These people should be thrown off the train, prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law and banned from all forms of public transport until they can prove they have given up smoking. Whilst there is no doubt some Railway byelaw remember that smoking in public places is also illegal in general criminal law, I believe it is a £2000 fine? I would be seeking that plus any costs to the Railway - so delay minutes incurred for all services. I would also hold the individual somewhere where they cannot get a cigarette for long enough that they suffer the effects of lack of nicotine. There is nothing worse that such anti-social behaviour, vandalism is all it is at best......

Have you ever thought of standing for Parliament ? - You could also campaign for the reintroduction of Flogging (for smokers ???) and Capital Punishment.