Snow, and what happens if it comes?

[London Trains]

So far, not much Winter forecasting, but I'm hearing some stories of a bad winter coming.

What passenger trains are best in the snow?
I heard that slam-door stock is better than modern, and something else about 455s being better than 377s and 450s, is this true?

Do TOCs have emergency timetables or do they just cut the timetable and have nothing?

And what lines usually run/don't run during Snow?

 

[TheManBehind]

SWR have a full timetable and customer communication plan, as well as the EWAT (Emergency Weather Action Team) (ironically mostly duty people) to decide what, if anything, needs to be done in the event of predicted snowfall.

 

[bramling]

So far, not much Winter forecasting, but I'm hearing some stories of a bad winter coming.

What passenger trains are best in the snow?
I heard that slam-door stock is better than modern, and something else about 455s being better than 377s and 450s, is this true?

Do TOCs have emergency timetables or do they just cut the timetable and have nothing?

And what lines usually run/don't run during Snow?

Depends. Modern stock tends to fare worse on the day, but is less likely to suffer damage that keeps trains out of service in following days. This is because the trains have protection systems which will lock out traction packages in the event of a fault current.

Meanwhile anything reliant on conductor rails is vulnerable to the conductor rails becoming frozen and the train unable to pick up current. There are mitigations for this, de-icing fluid can be laid, and there is also now heating at high-risk locations such as platforms. However these measures only go some way - the best mitigation is to keep the job moving, but it only takes a sit-down to happen somewhere and the whole pack of cards comes tumbling down. Then you’re down to the good old-fashioned ice scraper.

Trains in general don’t like cold weather, especially if being prepared from cold - for example if they’ve been left off current. It’s likely there will be a whole range of other minor defects which crop up.

 

[dk1]

I just find it's all jolly good fun. Every year I pray for a proper Winter & for years I've been disappointed. Maybe just maybe this year it will give everyone something to get stuck in to as the public & the railway in general have got out of practice with harsh ones.

 

[robbeech]

Are we actually expecting a bad winter or are we reading the identical news articles we see around this time every year telling us it’ll be the worst winter for 804 years.

 

[Bevan Price]

I just find it's all jolly good fun. Every year I pray for a proper Winter & for years I've been disappointed. Maybe just maybe this year it will give everyone something to get stuck in to as the public & the railway in general have got out of practice with harsh ones.

Maybe you need a winter holiday in somewhere like Norway or Switzerland ?
usually lots of snow there.

 

[dk1]

Maybe you need a winter holiday in somewhere like Norway or Switzerland ?
usually lots of snow there.

Yeah but that take effort to go. Remember the really bad ones in the 80s & just a few short bursts since. Let's do this in style this year

 

[MarkWi72]

Are we actually expecting a bad winter or are we reading the identical news articles we see around this time every year telling us it’ll be the worst winter for 804 years.

That's just the Daily Express scaremongering to sell papers to the elderly.

 

[MarkWi72]

This website is the best and most level headed around for short and long term weather forecasts.
http://www.gavsweathervids.com/

 

[Cowley]

Yeah but that take effort to go. Remember the really bad ones in the 80s & just a few short bursts since. Let's do this in style this year

How about these scenes from the 80s?
BR went to quite extraordinary lengths to keep some kind of service going in extreme weather. Using 33s, 47s, 56s to drag EMUs in the southeast. They used 73s on 3rd rail ice breaking trains as well as de-icing units.
Amazing really. (Not my photos)


This might take some digging out...

 

[MarkWi72]

The winters of 81/82 & 85/86 were very bad from recollection. Both had snow from early November on and off, with heavy December, January and February snow. and sub zeroes.

 

[randyrippley]

Are there any independent snow ploughs left? I can remember the two that used to be parked up at Salisbury in the 1980's but I've not seen any for years.

 

[Far north 37]

even the snow ploughs used to get stuck

 

[Far north 37]

Are there any independent snow ploughs left? I can remember the two that used to be parked up at Salisbury in the 1980's but I've not seen any for years.

Yes theres still some in inverness think there is some at fort william too also im sure theres still a few around the uk network

 

[Peter Mugridge]

There's two at York and two at Doncaster.

 

[cuccir]

Are we actually expecting a bad winter or are we reading the identical news articles we see around this time every year telling us it’ll be the worst winter for 804 years.

More nuanced forecasting and increase weather photography allow for pretty looking articles to be published reporting not-that-unusual snowfall. There are settlements in the Cairngorms and North Pennines with snowfall on average well over 50 days a year, or a third of the time from November to March.

A light scattering in the hills of Teesdale on in a Cairngorms villages becomes "Parts of Britain suffer wintery blast": an accurate but misleading story.

 

[sheff1]

The winters of 81/82 & 85/86 were very bad from recollection. Both had snow from early November on and off, with heavy December, January and February snow. and sub zeroes.

I remember the winter of 1962/63. There hasn't been a proper winter since.

 

[Far north 37]

I remember the winter of 1962/63. There hasn't been a proper winter since.

These photos and the one i posted above are from 1963 looks very severe

 

[6Gman]

In 2005 there were 32 snowploughs and 2 snowblowers. Not sure what the current figures are.

 

[Hadders]

Maybe you need a winter holiday in somewhere like Norway or Switzerland ?
usually lots of snow there.

But other countries have the right kind of snow and never, ever suffer any delays.

Meanwhile, in Britain, we have the wrong type of snow

 

[Elwyn]

Although the "wrong type of snow" is a famous explanation from BR days which many laugh at, isn’t there some truth in it? Due to our climate, we get a damp, heavy, solid type of snow which freezes to things and is particularly hard to shift, whereas in dryer and colder places eg Norway & Switzerland it’s a lot easier to plough snow away. Or am I wrong about this?

 

[Mugby]

Although the "wrong type of snow" is a famous explanation from BR days which many laugh at, isn’t there some truth in it? Due to our climate, we get a damp, heavy, solid type of snow which freezes to things and is particularly hard to shift, whereas in dryer and colder places eg Norway & Switzerland it’s a lot easier to plough snow away. Or am I wrong about this?

Yes I think you are wrong actually. When that now famous expression was made, it referred to a very fine, powdery type of snow which managed to enter locomotive engine rooms through the bodyside grilles and stop them working.
It's very often taken out of context or mis-quoted now!

 

[Carlisle]

Yes I think you are wrong actually. When that now famous expression was made, it referred to a very fine, powdery type of snow which managed to enter locomotive engine rooms through the bodyside grilles and stop them working.

Weren’t most of those problems caused by snow being sucked into the traction motors shorting them out and mostly happened to the old 3rd rail slam door EMU stock

 

[Temple Meads]

Another pair of ploughs are based at Fairwater Yard, Taunton.

 

[E_Reeves]

There are currently 21 Independent Drift Ploughs, 8 patrol Ploughs and 2 snow blowers. Numbers and locations attached.

 

[gimmea50anyday]

no it was mainly the mk3 based stock (317/319 fleets) that were affected with their GEC motors. They also had problems with the doors icing up. The EE 507 fitted traction and their GEC derivatives used on the slammers, on 455/456 etc ploughed on!

as I recall anyway...

 

[jon0844]

Are we actually expecting a bad winter or are we reading the identical news articles we see around this time every year telling us it’ll be the worst winter for 804 years.

There must be some 804 year old Daily Express readers who are still wondering when the paper will get a weather forecast right.

 

[dk1]

Weren't the snow blowers brought in during Chris Greens time & painted in NSE livery?

 

[DelayRepay]

What passenger trains are best in the snow?
I heard that slam-door stock is better than modern, and something else about 455s being better than 377s and 450s, is this true?

Steam Trains seem to work better than third rail EMUs.

The last bad winter we had in the South East was, I think, 2010. I remember being stuck on a train between London Bridge and Orpington for quite a while and for some reason South Eastern sent me a £25 Marks and Spencer voucher in addition to my delay repay, which was nice.

In the last few years, we've started to see the service being cancelled in advance when bad weather (normally high winds) are expected. So I suspect the same would happen if there was heavy snow forecast with people being told not to travel and the service being severely curtailed in advance rather than risking trains getting stuck in the snow.

 

[sprinterguy]

This might take some digging out...
View attachment 39420

That last photo reminds me of a report from the driver of a snowplough duty during a much more recent winter on the Buxton branch, who elected to call it a day and turn back because the drifts were above the level of the cab windows.

There's a dramatic aerial photo on the wall of the Bridge of Orchy hotel, taken sometime in the early eighties, of a class 37 hauled passenger train thoroughly embedded in drifts on the nearby West Highland line.