Some questions on passenger services running “too early”

[High Dyke]

Great Coates station is beyond the crossing in the Up direction though?

I am advised that the stopping point with a 2-car unit fouls the crossing.

 

[Peregrine 4903]

One reason why there can be crew diagram errors which can cause trains to depart early is if Network Rail amend trains a week before they run due to clashes in the timetable, but then the toc's or toc control don't update crew diagrams accordingly. The delay or missed stop caused by this either goes to the toc if Network Rail notified the toc of the train but the crew diagrams weren't updated or Network Rail if the toc wasn't notified properly.

 

[Falcon1200]

I have to say that in over 50 years of travelling by train, and 38 years working for the railway, instances of trains running early have in my experience been vanishingly small, mainly because most schedules simply do not allow trains to make up time and therefore run early in the first place ! And I am slightly surprised by Up trains being allowed to depart say Stratford early, this surely means they are now running off their booked path and are so likely to conflict with other services at Liverpool St, or stand outside waiting their platform anyway ?

The one occasion an early running train did severely inconvenience me was decades back under BR, when trains at Oxford were retimed for engineering work but the one I intended to catch lost less time en route than expected and was just allowed to keep going. That is the only time I have missed a train due to it running early.

 

[Isambard]

Have done the Waterloo East to Charing Cross journey on a number of occasions when going from the South Western lines to the West End and vice versa, especially when the weather is poor or we are with an elderly relative for whom the walk across the bridge might be a bit much. Have usually seen quite a few other passengers doing the same thing.

 

[RJ]

Happened on Southeastern once. I arrived at Lewisham to catch a train to Denmark Hill 4 minutes before departure time to find it had already left. I had checked on progress of the train 30 and 15 minutes before departure time, just in case I needed to take an alternative route and it was showing as on time.

I immediately called Southeastern customer services to see if they could help me get to my destination quicker - they denied it left early, claimed it was running late and that I should wait for it. They abjectly refused to acknowledge the early departure. I got a taxi, because I had to be somewhere.

Contacted Southeastern after the event and they continued to deny the train left early and basically said I was at fault and no compensation would be forthcoming. Then they claimed it had been cancelled. They tried to shut down the case but I found that dissatisfactory.

Eventually, they did admit that they did let it leave early and that what their staff said wasn't true and compensated me. But only because it was clear it would cost them a lot more if they didn't. If they let trains leave early and customers complain about it, why would they choose to deny it happened rather than acknowledge and deal with it?

That train started at Dartford and a problem on the booked route via Bexleyheath meant it ran fast via Sidcup. Instead of holding it at Hither Green, it was allowed to arrive at Lewisham early and block a platform, so it was an active decision on their part to send it early. It also exposed problems with the live departure data when trains leave Lewisham from a platform that's not booked, not that it seemed wise to feed this back when basic train running information proved to be impossible to get out of them.

 

[ComUtoR]

I immediately called Southeastern customer services to see if they could help me get to my destination quicker - they denied it left early, claimed it was running late and that I should wait for it. They abjectly refused to acknowledge the early departure. I got a taxi, because I had to be somewhere.

Contacted Southeastern after the event and they continued to deny the train left early and basically said I was at fault and no compensation would be forthcoming. Then they claimed it had been cancelled. They tried to shut down the case but I found that dissatisfactory.

The problem may have been that the information they had at that specific time did not show a delay and showed it running late.

Eventually, they did admit that they did let it leave early and that what their staff said wasn't true and compensated me. But only because it was clear it would cost them a lot more if they didn't. If they let trains leave early and customers complain about it, why would they choose to deny it happened rather than acknowledge and deal with it?

Correct information is critical and they probably weren't denying it, just using the information they had.

It also exposed problems with the live departure data when trains leave Lewisham from a platform that's not booked, not that it seemed wise to feed this back when basic train running information proved to be impossible to get out of them.

By feeding back the technical issues they could have learned why there was conflicting information.

Poor customer service for sure but potentially a genuine mistake.

 

[John Brannelly]

Because of all the reasons given in this thread?

Just because mistakes are sometimes made you don't just give up with a timetable....

In this thread, I have read many reasons and explanations for trains leaving before their scheduled times. My question was more or less rhetorical. I have never been a railwayman in any capacity. I was a commuter until I retired, and am now merely an (untrained) observer. I see trains departing from Shrewsbury, usually on time, sometimes late, very occasionally early but only by up to five seconds (by the station clocks).
Mistakes are a part of human nature, and generally forgivable - I made my share of them.
My understanding of timetables is that they exist to give advice to intending passengers, therefore should be reliable and, in my view, should be adhered to unless there are exceptional reasons - perhaps to avoid danger.
I offer my best wishes to all fellow posters.

 

[RJ]

The problem may have been that the information they had at that specific time did not show a delay and showed it running late.


Correct information is critical and they probably weren't denying it, just using the information they had.



By feeding back the technical issues they could have learned why there was conflicting information.

Poor customer service for sure but potentially a genuine mistake.

TOCs have experience with being able to check on the progress of their trains to inform their customers if they are running on time or not. In this case I told them the train had left early and they initially denied that could happen and said I must have been mistaken. Then they checked a 30 minute old message on Tyrell, which suggested the train would be delayed to back this up. They are already aware they have access to systems that provide live running data - LDB, P2, CCF, LDBCIS etc. In this case they chose not to use them because they already decided that the train couldn't possibly have departed a station early.

They already know about the issues with platform information at Lewisham. If a diversion has been spotted or notified to station staff they are normally good at announcing them. If not, it's up to people to either check their own data sources or wait for the next train.

 

[Magdalen Road]

The 0540 Cambridge to King's Cross left 3 minutes early this morning. I presume this was related to making an additional stop at Finsbury Park (underground strike related I guess). It also appeared simultaneously on RTT as 0443 from King's Lynn and 0517 from Ely on RTT. It started from King's Lynn though. Why are both appearing - this week's timetable is for King's Lynn departure (it had been starting at Ely until 21st Feb).

Realtime Trains | 0443 Kings Lynn to London Kings Cross | 03/03/2022

Real-time train running information for 0443 departure from Kings Lynn to London Kings Cross on 03/03/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[RJ]

The 0540 Cambridge to King's Cross left 3 minutes early this morning. I presume this was related to making an additional stop at Finsbury Park (underground strike related I guess). It also appeared simultaneously on RTT as 0443 from King's Lynn and 0517 from Ely on RTT. It started from King's Lynn though. Why are both appearing - this week's timetable is for King's Lynn departure (it had been starting at Ely until 21st Feb).

Realtime Trains | 0443 Kings Lynn to London Kings Cross | 03/03/2022

Real-time train running information for 0443 departure from Kings Lynn to London Kings Cross on 03/03/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Was that train advertised to the public as leaving at 0540 today? The normal scheduled departure time appears to be 0537 and other sources are suggesting that it was running to a schedule which had that as the departure time?

Intriguing if something else is happening!

 

[Hadders]

Is Thameslink core, and the future Crossrail the same as well? Is there a full list of stations available where departure times are "for reference only" and trains are allowed to depart early when ready?

Trains wait before entering the Thameslink core at their designated time. For example on the GN side trains have up to three minutes waiting time at Finsbury Park before proceeding into the core.

 

[Magdalen Road]

Was that train advertised to the public as leaving at 0540 today? The normal scheduled departure time appears to be 0537 and other sources are suggesting that it was running to a schedule which had that as the departure time?

Intriguing if something else is happening!

Ah, I think this has probably been retimed again but it was definitely showing as leaving 3 minutes early this morning. Other trains departure times have been adjusted today - the 1512 KGX - KLN is now 1509 and RTT says it left 1 minute early, and additional stop at Finsbury Park (tube strike related). The additional stop this morning was fairly pointless as there was no one I could see on the platform to get on. https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:Y00953/2022-03-03/detailed

Was that train advertised to the public as leaving at 0540 today? The normal scheduled departure time appears to be 0537 and other sources are suggesting that it was running to a schedule which had that as the departure time?

Intriguing if something else is happening!

Found my screenshot showing the planned schedule.

 

[scotrail170407]

As someone mentioned earlier in the thread a ‘go when ready’ order is in place for all Edinburgh bound services at Haymarket - I’ve left 20 early once on an HST from Aberdeen (in the screenshot attached)

 

[Wychwood93]

As someone mentioned earlier in the thread a ‘go when ready’ order is in place for all Edinburgh bound services at Haymarket - I’ve left 20 early once on an HST from Aberdeen (in the screenshot attached)

That service has 14.5 minutes of pathing/engineering allowance between Leuchars and Haymarket.

 

[leytongabriel]

I think you get it most when new trains with better acceleration arrive. We had a bad period on the GOBLIN when electrification finally happened and TfL schedules were pretty generous. And now on the the Lea Valley Line it does happen with the new trains.

 

[voyagerdude220]

I've noticed that 2N60 1602 Hazel Grove to Blackpool North appears to leave Buckshaw Parkway early quite often- it's booked to stand there for 8 minutes which is very unusual.

Realtime Trains | 2N60 1602 Hazel Grove to Blackpool North | 04/03/2022

Real-time train running information for 2N60 1602 departure from Hazel Grove to Blackpool North on 04/03/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains suggests it may have left early today but I don't know how accurate it is.