South Wales 'Metro' updates

[Dai Corner]

Of note in next month's Modern Railways (July) is that the Metro vehicles for the via Pontypridd routes are described by the ODP chair and Amey Rail's strategic growth director as 'train-trams' rather than 'tram-trains', "because there's still freight on the Core Valley Lines".
I seem to remember reading a while back that if the Swansea Bay tidal lagoon ever gets the go ahead, there is a stone quarry on one of the Treherbert / Aberdare or Merthyr lines that would be a prime candidate for supplying raw materials for the lagoon.
It also says "...the CVL will continue to be controlled from the Wales Rail Operating Centre."

Still no more detail on the new 'Metro control centre' at Taffs Well, and how this will differ in any way to the work already done in the SWCC & Wales ROC.

'Control' in Railway parlance is not the same thing as signalling. It's more to do with out-of-course events from fatalities on the line to passengers leaving things on trains.

ATW Control is currently located in the SWCC. Perhaps Control for the Metro area will be separated out and moved to Taff Well? I doubt if even those who'll be affected know yet.

 

[MarkyT]

'Control' in Railway parlance is not the same thing as signalling. It's more to do with out-of-course events from fatalities on the line to passengers leaving things on trains.

I also expect fleet and service control at Taffs Well rather than signalling. Because the entirety of Cardiff Central layout would have to remain in the existing ROC/CC, there's absolutely no benefit in moving signalling control for the remainder of the metro area. It would create an unhelpful boundary right in the middle of the busiest section of the network.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Use of the phrase "Control" might just be a bit of window dressing for TfW's/WG's benefit. It imply s that the new "as made in Wales by Welsh Government Metro" is somehow run (better) differently than nasty old Network Rail/ATW.

 

[Gareth Marston]

A statement of the obvious from the Institute of Welsh Affairs.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-44604025

People rely too much on cars and Wales faces failing to hit carbon emission targets as a result, a report has said.

The report was being written as the new South Wales Metro announcement was made and "warmly welcomes" the plans.

However, it said details other than those centred around heavy rail "remain quite vague" and the scheme "will only function effectively if it employs buses as well as rail".

All those pretty maps however if we put the "real crayon tool" over them there's a lot missing.

 

[PHILIPE]

A statement of the obvious from the Institute of Welsh Affairs.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-44604025





All those pretty maps however if we put the "real crayon tool" over them there's a lot missing.

What can they expect with the lack of provision of public transport, especially in the more rural parts.

 

[krus_aragon]

I'm probably one of those "over-reliant" on cars, but in my defence the current rail timetable eastbound out of Bangor doesn't suit a flexible commute: of the three services departing between 1600 and 1830, two run fast between Llandudno Junction and Chester, necessitating a change of trains (and on the 1626, a half hour wait at LLJ). This is as a result of having to stretch the current fleet ever further to deal with rush hour loadings at Chester, Manchester, etc.

Here's hoping the new fleet, and 2tph to Bangor, will make the train a viable option again.

 

[Envoy]

20 July 2018 and the start of the school holidays. Naturally, just when they think that everybody has gone on their holidays, Cardiff Council issue the Planning Application (18/01705) for the Transport Interchange - as part of the Metro Delivery Group. Click the link that follows to see the application. Then click ‘Documents’ and I suggest you then click ‘Design & Access Statement’ in order to get an overview.https://planning.cardiff.gov.uk/onl...eyVal=_CARDIFF_DCAPR_124399&activeTab=summary

Media Wales are covering the story.
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/latest-images-show-what-cardiffs-14932290

The £100m project is being delivered by the Metro Delivery Partnership (MDP), made up of Cardiff council , the Welsh Government , property development firm Richtacres and Network Rail .

Buses will come and go from both the north end and the south end - via Saunders Road - which at present is the main pedestrian route between the Central Station and the shopping area. A massive tower block is planned for the Wood Street end of the site. No doubt this will induce strong winds so expect to get blown off your feet when going from St. Mary Street to the Central Station. (This is the last place that should have a massive tower block - not only due to the wind factor but also because it will cast a massive shadow over The Royal Hotel and St.Mary Street). I also note that this massive block is to be coloured black/dark grey. What is it with this fad for everything to be black / dark grey?

 

[krus_aragon]

There are 123 documents associated with this application.

I'll read them some other time, but thanks for the heads up.

 

[Cardiff123]

A stop block has gone in at Aberdare, so the freight line to Hirwaun has been officially closed. (It hasn't been used since Tower colliery open cast mine closed last year)

Let's hope the line is just mothballed and the track isn't lifted and the land sold off.

This is despite NR doing a full study in 2012 for Welsh Govt on what would be needed for the line to open to passenger services and news stories just 2 - 3 years ago talking up the possibilities of the line to Hirwaun opening to passenger services as part of the Metro award. Of course there has been no mention of it from Keolis Amey or TfW even being a possibility.

 

[krus_aragon]

Have KeolisAmey or TfW made any reference to possibilities or maybes in the franchise award or since? To play devil's advocate, it may be as well to get the new stock and agreed service increases done before looking further down the list.

 

[Gareth Marston]

It was in the ENvironmental Impact maps on TFW's website back in December as kicked into the long grass project along with the other extensions for the Metro.

 

[Mr Apples]

I look forward to seeing all the frequency increases through Queen St, especially as both 'sets' of services have to basically cross-over each other, all the Caerphilly line trains going down to Central, and the Ponty line trams going down to the Bay. There's going to be two busy sets of points at the North end of the station, especially if Coryton goes 4tph. Surely some layout mods will be necessary?

 

[CardiffKid]

I look forward to seeing all the frequency increases through Queen St, especially as both 'sets' of services have to basically cross-over each other, all the Caerphilly line trains going down to Central, and the Ponty line trams going down to the Bay. There's going to be two busy sets of points at the North end of the station, especially if Coryton goes 4tph. Surely some layout mods will be necessary?

The area will of course get busier given the extra services, but remember there's quite a bit of cross over at that north junction already. All trains (comming from both Caerphilly and Pontypridd) need to get onto the single track leading to platforms 2 & 3 and all the trains from platforms 4 & 5 go onto a single piece of track before splitting for Caerphilly and Pontypridd.

There's no immediate plans for Coryton to go to 4tph - but if the WG are true to their word about 4 services an hour acorss the whole network - it'll happen at somepoint.

 

[daodao]

The area will of course get busier given the extra services, but remember there's quite a bit of cross over at that north junction already. All trains (coming from both Caerphilly and Pontypridd) need to get onto the single track leading to platforms 2 & 3 and all the trains from platforms 4 & 5 go onto a single piece of track before splitting for Caerphilly and Pontypridd.

There's no immediate plans for Coryton to go to 4tph - but if the WG are true to their word about 4 services an hour across the whole network - it'll happen at some point.

One or more passing loops would be required on the Coryton branch to increase the frequency, with associated signalling. In theory, that should be possible as the line was originally double track, although not all the alignment is available. A short dynamic loop could be constructed between Rhiwbina halt and the pedestrian crossing from Pen-y-Dre to Caedelyn Road, but the journey time from a loop sited here to Heath Junction is approximately 7 minutes (albeit with diesel traction), so the timings would be very tight.

 

[Cardiff123]

Keolis Amey have said that there will be a major re-modelling of one junction on the Valleys, my most likely guess is at Queen Street.

4tph to Coryton is just an aspiration at present, it's not in any of the plans set out to 2025.

 

[krus_aragon]

Keolis Amey have said that there will be a major re-modelling of one junction on the Valleys, my most likely guess is at Queen Street.

4tph to Coryton is just an aspiration at present, it's not in any of the plans set out to 2025.

Are you thinking of Queen St South, to redouble the line towards the Bay? I'm struggling to think of another junction that could need "major remodelling" for the intended service. Pontypridd Junction perhaps?

 

[Cardiff123]

Are you thinking of Queen St South, to redouble the line towards the Bay? I'm struggling to think of another junction that could need "major remodelling" for the intended service. Pontypridd Junction perhaps?

Possibly Queen St south, esp seeing as the new Bay platform 1 will be completely redundant under the new plans.
I was also thinking Queen St north but unless the bridge over Newport Rd is widened or replaced, not much can be done with that junction to increase capacity.
Pontypridd or Abercynon are possibilities as well.

 

[B&I]

How whacky are these suggestions ?

1. 4 track from the north end of Queen Street over the Newport Road bridge and up to the junction between the Pontypridd and Caerphilly lines

2. In conjunction with the above, lengthen (and straighten) the platforms at Queen Street, if necessary

3. Build a flyover for southbound services from the Pontypridd line, beginning on what seems to be a lane behind university buildings north-west of the junction, and leading to what's currently the north end of the current bay platform. Use it for trams towarda the Bay and, if feasible and desirable, Central-bound services

4. Build a flyover from the Bay line, over the GWML and the chord connecting Queen Street with Central, to the west side of Queen Street. Use it for services heading fom the Bay towards Pontrypridd

 

[Gareth Marston]

How whacky are these suggestions ?

1. 4 track from the north end of Queen Street over the Newport Road bridge and up to the junction between the Pontypridd and Caerphilly lines

2. In conjunction with the above, lengthen (and straighten) the platforms at Queen Street, if necessary

3. Build a flyover for southbound services from the Pontypridd line, beginning on what seems to be a lane behind university buildings north-west of the junction, and leading to what's currently the north end of the current bay platform. Use it for trams towarda the Bay and, if feasible and desirable, Central-bound services

4. Build a flyover from the Bay line, over the GWML and the chord connecting Queen Street with Central, to the west side of Queen Street. Use it for services heading fom the Bay towards Pontrypridd

Well as the M4 Relief will probably not survive Carwyns retirement.........

 

[Cardiff123]

How whacky are these suggestions ?

1. 4 track from the north end of Queen Street over the Newport Road bridge and up to the junction between the Pontypridd and Caerphilly lines

2. In conjunction with the above, lengthen (and straighten) the platforms at Queen Street, if necessary

3. Build a flyover for southbound services from the Pontypridd line, beginning on what seems to be a lane behind university buildings north-west of the junction, and leading to what's currently the north end of the current bay platform. Use it for trams towarda the Bay and, if feasible and desirable, Central-bound services

4. Build a flyover from the Bay line, over the GWML and the chord connecting Queen Street with Central, to the west side of Queen Street. Use it for services heading fom the Bay towards Pontrypridd

The bridge immediately north of Queen Street over Newport Rd does absolutely need to be widened to 4 tracks to keep the Pontypridd and Caerphilly trains separate and to dramatically improve capacity, frequency and reliability up the Valleys.
Queen Street station itself has enough platforms.
But it would involve demolishing buildings either side of the bridge, inc. the NCP car park and possibility the University Queens buildings. It would cause huge disruption to the top end of Newport Rd into the city centre and would cost a fortune. Buy in an ideal world it should still be done, it would unlock enormous capacity.

 

[daikilo]

The bridge immediately north of Queen Street over Newport Rd does absolutely need to be widened to 4 tracks to keep the Pontypridd and Caerphilly trains separate and to dramatically improve capacity, frequency and reliability up the Valleys.
Queen Street station itself has enough platforms.
But it would involve demolishing buildings either side of the bridge, inc. the NCP car park and possibility the University Queens buildings. It would cause huge disruption to the top end of Newport Rd into the city centre and would cost a fortune. Buy in an ideal world it should still be done, it would unlock enormous capacity.

It may help, but the real issue is that grade separation is needed for the proposed routings. Anyone for a flyover of the valleys train-trams from the platform end onto the viaduct to the bay.

 

[Envoy]

As Transport for Wales are taking over the Taff, Rhondda & Cynon Valley lines from Network Rail, what happens regarding the signalling/point changing - which are all controlled from the new massive NR signalling centre in Canton? Are they planning on drive by sight with no signals?

 

[Cardiff123]

As Transport for Wales are taking over the Taff, Rhondda & Cynon Valley lines from Network Rail, what happens regarding the signalling/point changing - which are all controlled from the new massive NR signalling centre in Canton? Are they planning on drive by sight with no signals?

Signalling will still be controlled from the NR Wales Rail Operating Centre in Canton.
TfW & KA are taking over the Rhymney line as well.

 

[Envoy]

Signalling will still be controlled from the NR Wales Rail Operating Centre in Canton.
TfW & KA are taking over the Rhymney line as well.

Many thanks for the response.

 

[uxm]

Electrification is only as far as ystrad mynych, the flirts will be on battery from ystrad mynych to rhymney.

 

[Tom Quinne]

Signalling will still be controlled from the NR Wales Rail Operating Centre in Canton.
TfW & KA are taking over the Rhymney line as well.

No offfical notification has been given out this will the case (although it should happen, and would make sense), also don’t forget the wholly within “Core” area SB at Radyr and Aberconyon, again no word on there futures either yet.

 

[Cardiff123]

No offfical notification has been given out this will the case (although it should happen, and would make sense), also don’t forget the wholly within “Core” area SB at Radyr and Aberconyon, again no word on there futures either yet.

I guess the most logical solution for Radyr and Abercynon SB's would be to complete what CASR started and what NR originally intended to do, which was to complete CASR by re-controlling these SB's in to the Wales ROC in Canton. NR put this last phase of CASR on hold when Welsh Govt started the light rail talk for the Valleys. Now it looks almost certain, from all the information that's been released so far, that the Valley lines will be upgraded and maintained to NR heavy rail standards, it makes most sense for this to happen.

 

[Tom Quinne]

That would secure the jobs at those locations, so ideally that’s what will happen.

 

[Cardiff123]

That would secure the jobs at those locations, so ideally that’s what will happen.

Surely if Radyr and Abercynon SB's are re-controlled to the Wales ROC in Canton, then these signal boxes will close?

 

[Tom Quinne]

Yes, however the staff who wanted to move, could.
A similar situation occurred with the half dozen SB that closed when Part 1 NorthWales coast transferred south.