South Wales 'Metro' updates

[Cardiff123]

Some interesting snippets from the latest MR magazine about TfW mobilisation for the new franchise:

The frequent shuttle between Cardiff Bay and a dedicated Bay platform at Cardiff Queen St will be retired, to be replaced by through running from the Bay to Pontypridd and beyond. This will introduce many additional conflicting moves at Queen St, where Bay services will cross the path of services on the Rhymney - Barry axis. This area was re-signalled by Network Rail recently, in tandem with reopening of two additional platforms, but further re-signalling and track alterations are planned to support the future service. Another factor is that interchange at Cardiff Central will be lost for services undergoing this switch (Bay - Pontypridd).

TfW mobilisation director Colin Lea is quoted as saying:

"We will inherit and use Network Rail standards initially, but in time we will be able to challenge these standards to improve efficiency and customer focus, whilst always ensuring safety."

It's also mentioned that all lines north of Queen St, currently known as the 'Core Valley lines' will remain part of the national rail network, with through ticketing.

 

[uxm]

Some interesting snippets from the latest MR magazine about TfW mobilisation for the new franchise:



TfW mobilisation director Colin Lea is quoted as saying:

It's also mentioned that all lines north of Queen St, currently known as the 'Core Valley lines' will remain part of the national rail network, with through ticketing.

Thought network rail will transfer the vore valley lines to the welsh government?

 

[Cardiff123]

Thought network rail will transfer the vore valley lines to the welsh government?

Yes that's happening next autumn (2019) and then Keolis Amey will be in charge of maintenance and upgrades on those lines

 

[uxm]

Yes that's happening next autumn (2019) and then Keolis Amey will be in charge of maintenance and upgrades on those lines

So south wales metro is launching autum 2019?

 

[CardiffKid]

So south wales metro is launching autum 2019?

If you listen to the WG Phase One of the Metro is complete - so in theory it should be live.

I doubt there'll be an actual start date, eventually, hopefully stations will be branded as 'Metro' rather than the old BR logo, but don't get your hopes up for a big switch on/start date.

 

[krus_aragon]

So south wales metro is launching autum 2019?

Well that's when responsibility for the infrastructure is transferred. There can't really be many changes to the service provision until the cavalry / new rolling stock arrives.

 

[uxm]

Stations are already branded metro! a couple on the core valleys have new signs

 

[anthony263]

Truth be told I wondered if we needed so many services going to Cardiff bay. I would have interworked all of the aberdare and Merthyr services and just send the treherbert or coryton services to the bay in the case of the latter using tram train vehicles instead of flirts and increasing the frequency to 4 services per hour.

 

[Cardiff123]

The Coryton line is the only line that will see journey times to Cardiff Central extended thanks to the extra stop at Crwys Road. No increase in frequency either. The 4tph to Coryton is saved for an un-costed, un-funded, unconfirmed future phase if the line is extended to the new Velindre hospital. It might happen by 2033 if you're being optimistic.

Although the line will see a tripling of seating capacity, going from a single car 153 to a 3 car Stadler Flirt.

 

[CardiffKid]

Truth be told I wondered if we needed so many services going to Cardiff bay. I would have interworked all of the aberdare and Merthyr services and just send the treherbert or coryton services to the bay in the case of the latter using tram train vehicles instead of flirts and increasing the frequency to 4 services per hour.

It might be more to do with capacity at Central for terminating Services.

Stations are already branded metro! a couple on the core valleys have new signs

Llandaf and Radyr have both been like that for a while now. The official line is things (shelters, benches etc) and I assume branding were being trailed.

 

[Cardiff123]

Llandaf and Radyr have both been like that for a while now. The official line is things (shelters, benches etc) and I assume branding were being trailed.

Yes this makes sense, as 'Metro' lettering never appeared anywhere and the red and orange stripes are from the first incarnation of the 'Metro' livery when it was going to be a backwards running hare on trains with red and orange stripes. Since then we've seen on the mock-ups of the tram-trains and Flirts that the TfW standard silver, black and red colour scheme and livery will be applied.

 

[PHILIPE]

The Cardiff Bay became a self-contained service for performance reasons and avoiding movements across the throat. With a current frequency of a train through Queen St every 5 minutes it would be difficult to path anything across.

 

[Cardiff123]

The Cardiff Bay became a self-contained service for performance reasons and avoiding movements across the throat. With a current frequency of a train through Queen St every 5 minutes it would be difficult to path anything across.

So the money spent by NR to open what is now P1 at Queen St was wasted.
Of course if the bridge over Newport Rd could be widened to 4 tracks we wouldn't have these constraints.
We have so much to thank the 1970s rationalisation for. Foresight anyone?

 

[anthony263]

Personally if they wired the Cardiff central to penarth section I would have something like this:

4tph rhymney -cardiff-barry-barry island/bridgend.
4tph aberdare-pontypridd-cardiff-landaff-pontypridd-merthyr Tydfil
4tph merthyr Tydfil to Cardiff to aberdare
5tph treherbert to Cardiff to penarth and 4tph coryton to queen street to Cardiff bay

 

[Cardiff123]

If you listen to the WG Phase One of the Metro is complete - so in theory it should be live.

I doubt there'll be an actual start date, eventually, hopefully stations will be branded as 'Metro' rather than the old BR logo, but don't get your hopes up for a big switch on/start date.

Remind me what phase 1 was again?

 

[John R]

So the money spent by NR to open what is now P1 at Queen St was wasted.
Of course if the bridge over Newport Rd could be widened to 4 tracks we wouldn't have these constraints.
We have so much to thank the 1970s rationalisation for. Foresight anyone?

With only 3 northbound departures and 3 southbound passenger arrivals off-peak into Queen St when the rationalisation occurred, it would have needed a lot of foresight to envisage the constraint the layout would impose nearly 50 years later.
The recent (last decade) track record of WAG sponsored infrastructure improvements is fairly sorry too, in my opinion. Platform lengthening to 6 cars - little if any use, passing loop at Tir Phil - not used, southbound bay at Pontypridd - not used on a regular basis, same at Caerphilly. I also read somewhere that ATW don't permit use of the additional southbound platform flexibility at Queen St in the morning rush hour, because of revenue protection concerns, but that's heresay, and more a TOC issue, but if true hardly inspires confidence that investment is well directed.

 

[krus_aragon]

I also read somewhere that ATW don't permit use of the additional southbound platform flexibility at Queen St in the morning rush hour, because of revenue protection concerns, but that's heresay, and more a TOC issue

I can't think of a way in which platform flexibility (I assume you mean the ability to route into platform 2 or 3) could impact on revenue protection. Could you help me out here?

 

[Cardiff123]

I can't think of a way in which platform flexibility (I assume you mean the ability to route into platform 2 or 3) could impact on revenue protection. Could you help me out here?

It's to do with passengers for Cardiff Bay. If trains go into P3 then tickets can be checked in the subway. If trains go into P2, passengers can simply cross the platform straight on to the Bay train without tickets being checked. Of course, the sensible approach would be to just put RPI's on the platform at Cardiff Bay checking tickets as people leave there.

 

[Cardiff123]

With only 3 northbound departures and 3 southbound passenger arrivals off-peak into Queen St when the rationalisation occurred, it would have needed a lot of foresight to envisage the constraint the layout would impose nearly 50 years later.
The recent (last decade) track record of WAG sponsored infrastructure improvements is fairly sorry too, in my opinion. Platform lengthening to 6 cars - little if any use, passing loop at Tir Phil - not used, southbound bay at Pontypridd - not used on a regular basis, same at Caerphilly. I also read somewhere that ATW don't permit use of the additional southbound platform flexibility at Queen St in the morning rush hour, because of revenue protection concerns, but that's heresay, and more a TOC issue, but if true hardly inspires confidence that investment is well directed.

Yes, it's not a great record, you can add the Ebbw Vale re-doubling farce to that list as well.
Those infrastructure improvements haven't been used though due to the fact the WG didn't think to find the extra trains needed to make use of those improvements.
The turn back at Caerphilly at least will be used as part of Keolis Amey's plans.

 

[Dai Corner]

It's to do with passengers for Cardiff Bay. If trains go into P3 then tickets can be checked in the subway. If trains go into P2, passengers can simply cross the platform straight on to the Bay train without tickets being checked. Of course, the sensible approach would be to just put RPI's on the platform at Cardiff Bay checking tickets as people leave there.

Aren't fares the same for Queen Street and Cardiff Bay for all but the shortest journeys? I wouldn't have thought there was all that much revenue at risk but I may be wrong.

 

[krus_aragon]

Aren't fares the same for Queen Street and Cardiff Bay for all but the shortest journeys? I wouldn't have thought there was all that much revenue at risk but I may be wrong.

But if you don't hold a ticket at all, you could avoid a theoretical ticket check in the subway, hop on to the Bay shuttle, and walk out of the unbarriered station there.

 

[Dai Corner]

But if you don't hold a ticket at all, you could avoid a theoretical ticket check in the subway, hop on to the Bay shuttle, and walk out of the unbarriered station there.

Ah, I wasn't thinking of it that way. In that case I'd agree with Cardiff123 that ticket checks at the Bay are the way to go. If I was an RPI I know which location I'd rather work at though, especially in bad weather!

I wonder if a lot of zero fare excesses are issued at Queen Street or between Cardiff Bay and there?

 

[Cardiff123]

Aren't fares the same for Queen Street and Cardiff Bay for all but the shortest journeys? I wouldn't have thought there was all that much revenue at risk but I may be wrong.

ATW don't recognise their own zonal fare system though. They insist anyone who has a ticket to Queen Street but is going to the Bay must buy a new ticket, even season ticket holders.
There has been anger over the policy on ATW Twitter many times. And how many passengers have heard about zero fare excess tickets?
We all know ATW's 'buy before you board' and revenue policy is flawed.

 

[Dai Corner]

ATW don't recognise their own zonal fare system though. They insist anyone who has a ticket to Queen Street but is going to the Bay must buy a new ticket, even season ticket holders.
There has been anger over the policy on ATW Twitter many times. And how many passengers have heard about zero fare excess tickets?
We all know ATW's 'buy before you board' and revenue policy is flawed.

ATW had Twitter campaign about this a few months ago and I replied to every tweet I saw explaining zero fare excesses. I think some passengers got the message. I can feel a trip to Cardiff on a Newport-Central ticket and conversations at excess fare windows and on the Bay shuttle coming on!

 

[Bletchleyite]

It's to do with passengers for Cardiff Bay. If trains go into P3 then tickets can be checked in the subway. If trains go into P2, passengers can simply cross the platform straight on to the Bay train without tickets being checked. Of course, the sensible approach would be to just put RPI's on the platform at Cardiff Bay checking tickets as people leave there.

Can't have anything as passenger friendly as a cross platform connection if it makes things a bit difficult for the railway, can we?

 

[Dai Corner]

New thread created in the Fares Advice and Policy forum to discuss that aspect.

Cardiff Central / Queen Street / Bay

ATW had Twitter campaign about this a few months ago and I replied to every tweet I saw explaining zero fare excesses. I think some passengers got the message. I can feel a trip to Cardiff on a Newport-Central ticket and conversations at excess fare windows and on the Bay shuttle coming on!

 

[CardiffKid]

Remind me what phase 1 was again?

The most significant part of Phase 1 was the extension from Ebbw Vale Parkway to Ebbw Vale Town.

When I worked in the National Assembly the WG were actively marketing and promoting it and a few other tiny iporvments as Phase 1, sadly these documents seem to have been removed from the WG's website.

this is the best I can find after a quick Google:

http://www.assembly.wales/en/bus-ho...s&startDt=01/12/2015&endDt=01/12/2015#C260934
(Item 3)

I'll see if I can find something more substantial later.

 

[Hynod]

https://www.southwalesargus.co.uk/n...railway-station-in-llanwern-newport-revealed/

 

[krus_aragon]

https://www.southwalesargus.co.uk/n...railway-station-in-llanwern-newport-revealed/

The long and the short of this article seems to be that TfW made an application for a Screening Opinion from Newport Council, asking if they'd require an environmental impact assessment along with a planning application for Llanwern Station and Park & Ride. They intend to build a new passenger line and a new track for a "major events stabling line", presumably a siding for trains going to or from a big event in Cardiff.

I can't find any evidence of this planning application of Neport Council's database.

 

[oglord]

I can't find any evidence of this planning application of Neport Council's database.

http://documents.newport.gov.uk/Northgate.WebSearch/(S(jsg2m4bwmiw50deoj4ni2jbc))/Results.aspx