Southeastern Maidstone - Blackfriars 2022.

[Class 466]

The revised BFR service from may is now showing: https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/se...-0159?stp=WVS&show=pax-calls&order=wtt&toc=SE

 

[Timmyd]

Is there really any point in a 3-hourly service?

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Is there really any point in a 3-hourly service?

No but of course they will say we put on this service and it wasn't well used so its being withdrawn then they can forget about the Maidstone East line again for another decade. As Talking Heads say

Same as it ever was

 

[railwaytrack]

The revised BFR service from may is now showing: https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/se...-0159?stp=WVS&show=pax-calls&order=wtt&toc=SE

From looking at that timetable it seems that trains are going to be sitting around in the platforms at London Blackfriars for long periods of time. For example a train that arrives at 13:35 and leaves at 14:40 meaning that it spends over an hour in the platform. It just seems like a waste of resources to me. Maybe if the trains were not having such long turnarounds then the service could be more frequent.

 

[4-SUB 4732]

From looking at that timetable it seems that trains are going to be sitting around in the platforms at London Blackfriars for long periods of time. For example a train that arrives at 13:35 and leaves at 14:40 meaning that it spends over an hour in the platform. It just seems like a waste of resources to me. Maybe if the trains were not having such long turnarounds then the service could be more frequent.

That’s probably to allow the PNB for the crew.

 

[30907]

Maybe if the trains were not having such long turnarounds then the service could be more frequent.

You couldn't fit in a 4th round trip with the one unit.

 

[ert47]

From looking at that timetable it seems that trains are going to be sitting around in the platforms at London Blackfriars for long periods of time. For example a train that arrives at 13:35 and leaves at 14:40 meaning that it spends over an hour in the platform. It just seems like a waste of resources to me. Maybe if the trains were not having such long turnarounds then the service could be more frequent.

I think it goes empties to Herne Hill turnback in the meantime

 

[cle]

Can this service ever aspire to being run by more than a single unit? Is that in the conditions?!

 

[Stephen42]

I think it goes empties to Herne Hill turnback in the meantime

The platform allocations are slightly misleading, the Herne Hill turnbacks are separate diagrams and look like route retention for metro drivers.

Can this service ever aspire to being run by more than a single unit? Is that in the conditions?!

Technically it uses 4, the 1139 Blackfriars - Maidstone arrives at 1244 after the 1232 Maidstone - Blackfriars so uses two sets of 2 class 377s. The current pattern looks to be for efficient crew diagrams as there's enough stock in sidings between peaks.

The originally uploaded 1tph might be all that's realistic given the current circumstances, it's unclear from public accessibly info why it got revised back to what's running now.

 

[30907]

Technically it uses 4, the 1139 Blackfriars - Maidstone arrives at 1244 after the 1232 Maidstone - Blackfriars so uses two sets of 2 class 377s.

...and (ignoring the platform numbers on RTT) both run ECS from/to Ashford.

 

[4BEP]

The revised BFR service from may is

The revised BFR service from may is now showing: https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/se...-0159?stp=WVS&show=pax-calls&order=wtt&toc=SE

That is the same as service running now.

 

[Class 466]

That is the same as service running now.

Indeed it is. It’s revised back from the originally uploaded 1tph.

 

[4BEP]

Indeed it is. It’s revised back from the originally uploaded 1tph.

Interestingly, if you look at the terminste and start times at MDE, they appear to be using two pairs of 377s when they could cover the present service with one.

 

[30907]

Interestingly, if you look at the terminste and start times at MDE, they appear to be using two pairs of 377s when they could cover the present service with one.

See #369 and 370 upthread.

 

[4BEP]

So the Southeastern time table confirms it, the 2 tph service to Blackfriars has gone the same way as the Thameslink Cambridge service leaving nothing more than the pointless 3 hourly off-peak service.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

So the Southeastern time table confirms it, the 2 tph service to Blackfriars has gone the same way as the Thameslink Cambridge service leaving nothing more than the pointless 3 hourly off-peak service.

Be gone by September as they will need to release the 377's back to Southern

 

[Class 466]

Be gone by September as they will need to release the 377's back to Southern

They won't be, just the stock that works them will probably change.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

They won't be, just the stock that works them will probably change.

back to a scruffy Networker no doubt

 

[DA1]

back to a scruffy Networker no doubt

Seen a networker recently in Ashford depot which was unusual so potentially.

 

[tbwbear]

Does anyone have any idea when the off peak Victoria to Maidstone service is going back to half hourly - if it is.

We now have this ludicrous 3 hourly off peak Blackfriars service and hour gaps in the afternoon at Victoria.

 

[brad465]

Does anyone have any idea when the off peak Victoria to Maidstone service is going back to half hourly - if it is.

We now have this ludicrous 3 hourly off peak Blackfriars service and hour gaps in the afternoon at Victoria.

Yes this hourly frequency mid week between peaks is annoying, especially as they seem to be able to have a 2tph service on Saturdays at the moment.

back to a scruffy Networker no doubt

If that's the plan, I'm surprised they're not doing this 3 hourly Blackfriars' service at the moment, as this would provide traction knowledge recall, as Networkers have not had a presence on the MDE line since 2020 for their peak extras.

 

[tbwbear]

Yes this hourly frequency mid week between peaks is annoying, especially as they seem to be able to have a 2tph service on Saturdays at the moment.

I had heard from somebody at Southeastern that the hourly off peak service was now permanent and the 3-hourly Blackfriars service was offered as a kind of compensation. Which of course it isn't, and it is very likely to be withdrawn for lack of use.

I thought the reduction was COVID related, but the 2tph service on Saturdays and these extra Blackfriars trains seem to prove that wrong.

I can't find anything anywhere that suggests the half-hourly off peak will return or when it will.

Anyone know anything else? Are they allowed to permanently reduce frequency - doesn't the specification call for 2tph ?

 

[Class 466]

I had heard from somebody at Southeastern that the hourly off peak service was now permanent and the 3-hourly Blackfriars service was offered as a kind of compensation. Which of course it isn't, and it is very likely to be withdrawn for lack of use.

I thought the reduction was COVID related, but the 2tph service on Saturdays and these extra Blackfriars trains seem to prove that wrong.

I can't find anything anywhere that suggests the half-hourly off peak will return or when it will.

Anyone know anything else? Are they allowed to permanently reduce frequency - doesn't the specification call for 2tph ?

I think the plan is to go back to 2tph from December 2022 through to Victoria along with 1tph from Maidstone East to an as yet to be announced location.

 

[4BEP]

I think the plan is to go back to 2tph from December 2022 through to Victoria along with 1tph from Maidstone East to an as yet to be announced location.

Pretty much as the pre 2009 service then and a chance to get a 50 minute service into Cannon Street or Charing Cross again.

 

[4-SUB 4732]

It’s been suggested elsewhere as a half-hourly Ashford to Victoria (and wherever else east of Ashford as required by the timetable) and then an hourly Maidstone to Charing Cross.

Would be interesting to see what stops the Maidstone to Charing Cross makes, not least because it could be very useful to certain places.

 

[Chiltern006]

id hope it goes via bromley south and the mid kent line. will give bromley commuters a much simpler journey to theatreland without needing the tube

 

[Peregrine 4903]

id hope it goes via bromley south and the mid kent line. will give bromley commuters a much simpler journey to theatreland without needing the tube

It won't be going that way.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Will there be capacity between the TL stoppers between Otford and St Mary Cray? If so, guessing the new service would then take the spur up to Chislehurst?

 

[Peregrine 4903]

Will there be capacity between the TL stoppers between Otford and St Mary Cray? If so, guessing the new service would then take the spur up to Chislehurst?

There are 2 Thameslink tph between Otford and St Mary Cray. You can defintley fit in another 1tph including all the freight too.

Yes, you are correct regarding the second point.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

There are 2 Thameslink tph between Otford and St Mary Cray. You can defintley fit in another 1tph including all the freight too.

Yes, you are correct regarding the second point.

back to the routing the Cannon St service had 30 years ago then. needs to be half hourly really to be of use for onward Tlk connections.