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Southeastern - Trainee Driver - All Depots (03/06/24)

43066

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As for second point ive found myself multiple times having to remind people of rules. Such as I declared a failure and signaller asked me to lay protection, but me keeping up with my rules knowledge I knew that you no longer had to lay protection for assistance. So I stand by rules are equally as important

Agreed, they’re equally as important. You also won’t necessarily have the information to hand when you need it, hence the need to retain your knowledge and keep it up to date. Plus these days many companies - including SE - issue rule books on electronic devices which you’re not allowed to access when driving.

The classroom stuff is intense and boring.

A matter of opinion and it varies by person. I found rules very interesting and enjoyed the course - traction less so.
 
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RailUK Forums

357

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The classroom stuff is intense and boring. The fun begins during traction and during your handing hours. But the most important thing is your driving and route knowledge. You'll be suprised how rules are seen as the most important part of train driving during the classroom stuff but once your with your instructor and getting prepared for your final part the most important thing is the driving and route knowledge.

Obviously not saying rules ain't important but what's the point in your rules behind 100% but your route knowledge is lacking or your driving ain't great
I don't know anyone who's failed their rules, but I know of people who have failed their final assessment due to poor driving or lack of route knowledge.

Rules are important yeah I agree but as a driver you'd have a list of everything you need to know incase things go wrong. Rules is more or less a memory test but as a driver we would be guided on what to do and we would have a copy with us with the restrictions and speeds etc.

These are both very concerning messages coming from a qualified driver.

I know people who have failed on their rules, and I know that you know the same people too.

The reason your DI won't go over rules so much with you is because you have done them in the classroom and already had your rules assessments.

For the same reason your classroom teachers won't go over route knowledge so much, because that's the job of your DI and your route assessment comes later.

As someone at a depot where most of us sign around 1,000 miles of route and multiple types of traction - I can assure you that rules are equally as important as route knowledge.

If you overspeed by 5mph the chances are nothing will happen. If you apply incorrect rules when passing signals at danger you're going to be in much more bother.

I carry maps for all of my routes and selected pages from our traction handbooks in my bag, along with the rulebook apps on my iPad, work phone and personal phone - along with the PDF version saved offline as a backup.

I know many people in our previous TOC would consider this a sign of weakness, but I don't. Almost everyone at my depot does this to some extent.

In the last few weeks I've had to isolate the air supply to my coupler, isolate air suspension, inhibit an engine and fire system, make a lengthy wrong direction move, unfamiliar shunts, and emergency special working.

I knew how to do all that stuff - but is there any harm in double checking?

However - when you're on the move or need to do something quickly you don't always have time to check, you've just got to know this stuff.

I'm sure as we gain experience once qualified we all make our own judgement on what parts of the rulebook we need to know inside out and the bits that we won't need to use often or ever. However, to tell new drivers not to worry about rules is terrible advice.
 

Twotwo

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These are both very concerning messages coming from a qualified driver.

I know people who have failed on their rules, and I know that you know the same people too.

The reason your DI won't go over rules so much with you is because you have done them in the classroom and already had your rules assessments.

For the same reason your classroom teachers won't go over route knowledge so much, because that's the job of your DI and your route assessment comes later.

As someone at a depot where most of us sign around 1,000 miles of route and multiple types of traction - I can assure you that rules are equally as important as route knowledge.

If you overspeed by 5mph the chances are nothing will happen. If you apply incorrect rules when passing signals at danger you're going to be in much more bother.

I carry maps for all of my routes and selected pages from our traction handbooks in my bag, along with the rulebook apps on my iPad, work phone and personal phone - along with the PDF version saved offline as a backup.

I know many people in our previous TOC would consider this a sign of weakness, but I don't. Almost everyone at my depot does this to some extent.

In the last few weeks I've had to isolate the air supply to my coupler, isolate air suspension, inhibit an engine and fire system, make a lengthy wrong direction move, unfamiliar shunts, and emergency special working.

I knew how to do all that stuff - but is there any harm in double checking?

However - when you're on the move or need to do something quickly you don't always have time to check, you've just got to know this stuff.

I'm sure as we gain experience once qualified we all make our own judgement on what parts of the rulebook we need to know inside out and the bits that we won't need to use often or ever. However, to tell new drivers not to worry about rules is terrible advice.


I never once said don't worry about rules. During rules we are meant to know a million thingy by memory but as a driver most things you would have with you is my point. Do we have to do a process of elimation or wire 13 by memory ? Do we have to memorise everything on rt3185 by memory? Nah cos we would have a handout with us which covers everything which was my point.

I don't know of anyone in my toc who failed their rules exams during their final exam personally

Stuff like making a wrong directional movement, passing a signal a danger, resetting tpws etc and stuff that could happen everyday is stuff we NEED to know and ALL final part assessments would drill them questions in. But my point was other stuff like speed restrictions, process of elimination etc as we would have a handout with us with the guidelines

My point was more that some people aint great in the classroom but excel at things practically and whilst rules is intense most of the stuff we get questioned on the rules assessment are done by memory but in real life for most out of course scenarios we would have a handout with us etc.
 
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43066

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Nah cos we would have a handout with us which covers everything which was my point.

You won’t always have a “handout” with you, though, especially if you have an electronic device you’re not allowed to refer to when driving!
 

Twotwo

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You won’t always have a “handout” with you, though, especially if you have an electronic device you’re not allowed to refer to when driving!

Well personally I have a handout of most out of course scenarios and any speeds/restrictions associated with it.
 

asrut10

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Hi can someone give me an idea of how long it will take roughly to get to final assessment and sign core routes with southeastern?
 

Class2ldn

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25 Feb 2011
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All depends on availability of instructors really but from doing rules and traction probably looking at between 6-9 months so probably at least a year from starting training and that's if it all runs smoothly.
Depending on the hours you do you might be able to do it a bit quicker but a year is about normal give or take
 

ZFE95

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If you're referring to the level 2 pay grade, that is the one you'll be on after you leave the training school. So, the 225+ hours you spend with your DI's, that would depend how smoothly that part of your training goes, I was with a DI for 7-8 months!
 

driver333

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Yes, my contract also said training is 24 weeks on average. I’m not really sure what that relates to as the previous paperwork I had been sent stated classroom is 50 days and overall the whole training is approximately 12 months.

Definitely think that’s the right way to look at it, go in fresh and just make sure we commit ourselves. I’m so used to trying to be prepared and doing research etc that it’s going to be strange walking into something without having done so, especially when it’s starting with a lot of intense learning.
Hi mate,

Also, just wanted to say recruitment just informed me apparently our training IS at Ashford, so clearly the person who told me prior it was Orpington was wrong.

Who knows lol!
 

Leoleo1833

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I see that a lot of people in these posts have received calls. I wonder if I might get called as well, and if there are still July applicants waiting. In the portal, I still see my application listed as "in process," but I'm not sure if that really means anything.
 

matcha

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Dover
I see that a lot of people in these posts have received calls. I wonder if I might get called as well, and if there are still July applicants waiting. In the portal, I still see my application listed as "in process," but I'm not sure if that really means anything.
Yes, same. Applied in July, but still waiting.
 

Bug2023

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How peculiar, I think it’s 24 weeks the whole thing? That’s mad but we’ll see won’t we! That’s the same as me I was going off of the previous paperwork!

Yeah, hundred percent that’s what we will do! At least I now know of someone that will be on the same course we can always help each other out! Names Olly btw :)

Hi mate,

Also, just wanted to say recruitment just informed me apparently our training IS at Ashford, so clearly the person who told me prior it was Orpington was wrong.

Who knows lol!

I’m so confused about the 24 weeks thing now, I checked through all the information I had before and it definitely says the training is longer. But then I double checked the email I got with my offer and contract etc and that says 24 weeks like the contract does. Unless perhaps it’s the rough amount of time for classroom, traction and some of the early stuff before you move onto working on your driving hours with your DI etc.

Nice to know someone else from on here will be on the same course as me at least! Makes it slightly less daunting to start it! My name is Becka - will keep an eye/ear out when we start for you!

That’s brilliant news if we are at Ashford then, just makes it so much easier as I have the option to drive or take the train. I bet you must be relieved that it’s Ashford, that’s going to save you so much time with travelling to and from now. Have you heard much from recruitment since doing the contract and onboarding stuff? I haven’t heard anything from them since doing mine, but I assumed it wouldn’t be until closer to our start date.
 

driver333

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I’m so confused about the 24 weeks thing now, I checked through all the information I had before and it definitely says the training is longer. But then I double checked the email I got with my offer and contract etc and that says 24 weeks like the contract does. Unless perhaps it’s the rough amount of time for classroom, traction and some of the early stuff before you move onto working on your driving hours with your DI etc.

Nice to know someone else from on here will be on the same course as me at least! Makes it slightly less daunting to start it! My name is Becka - will keep an eye/ear out when we start for you!

That’s brilliant news if we are at Ashford then, just makes it so much easier as I have the option to drive or take the train. I bet you must be relieved that it’s Ashford, that’s going to save you so much time with travelling to and from now. Have you heard much from recruitment since doing the contract and onboarding stuff? I haven’t heard anything from them since doing mine, but I assumed it wouldn’t be until closer to our start date.
Honestly, it is confusing! But as far is I’m now aware we receive an apprenticeship package around 2 weeks prior to start date with training schedule (leave dates and anticipated finish date) so I’m sure we will know probably early Feb!

Yeah for sure! It’s always nice to go in “knowing” someone, or of someone! Haha, yeah for sure do! If you have IG add me as can’t figure out how to DM here!! @Ollyc.t on Insta.

My thoughts exactly! Same here I can do either so much more relived now! And no not really, just regarding referencing and I asked about schedule etc,

But all good we will here soon :)
Thanks Becka.

@Bug2023 .
 
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43066

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I’m so confused about the 24 weeks thing now, I checked through all the information I had before and it definitely says the training is longer. But then I double checked the email I got with my offer and contract etc and that says 24 weeks like the contract does. Unless perhaps it’s the rough amount of time for classroom, traction and some of the early stuff before you move onto working on your driving hours with your DI etc.

Explained above in post 356. The 24 weeks is a rough timeframe for the classroom stage (PTS, rules and traction). The next stage will be going out with a DI and train handling/route learning. The time time for this will vary depending on your depot’s routes, and how quickly a DI is available: if you’re lucky you might get one the week after you finish rules, if not, you might wait several months for one.

Expect the whole process, from walking in the door to passing out, to take 12-18 months.
 
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Explained above in post 356. The 24 weeks is a rough timeframe for the classroom stage (PTS, rules and traction). The next stage will be going out with a DI and train handling/route learning. The time time for this will vary depending on your depot’s routes, and how quickly a DI is available: if you’re lucky you might get one the week after you finish rules, if not, you might wait several months for one.

Expect the whole process, from walking in the door to passing out, to take 12-18 months.
What would you do with your time whilst waiting for a DI to be available?
 

43066

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Could be allocated an ordinary driver (not a DI) and just follow and watch them drive until a DI becomes available for you.

That happened to quite a few people I know of, and they seem to use it as a way to recruit new DIs. With varying results!
 
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One week of ‘onboarding’ followed by 10 weeks of rules for SE, up to 17 days traction (Electrostar and Networkers) if electrostar only then it’s 10 (depot dependant)+707’s after dependant on depot.

After that you may have to do your functional skills for your apprenticeship (maths or English/both)

Then out with DI if available.

Hope this helps.
 

driver333

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One week of ‘onboarding’ followed by 10 weeks of rules for SE, up to 17 days traction (Electrostar and Networkers) if electrostar only then it’s 10 (depot dependant)+707’s after dependant on depot.

After that you may have to do your functional skills for your apprenticeship (maths or English/both)

Then out with DI if available.

Hope this helps.
Very helpful, good insight to what is to come. It also says “their are points you will have to take annual leave” what and when are these and roughly for how long?,

As for functional skills I gained mine in a previous apprenticeship last year, I take it I won’t need to resit

Thanks
 

Bug2023

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Honestly, it is confusing! But as far is I’m now aware we receive an apprenticeship package around 2 weeks prior to start date with training schedule (leave dates and anticipated finish date) so I’m sure we will know probably early Feb!

Yeah for sure! It’s always nice to go in “knowing” someone, or of someone! Haha, yeah for sure do! If you have IG add me as can’t figure out how to DM here!! @Ollyc.t on Insta.

My thoughts exactly! Same here I can do either so much more relived now! And no not really, just regarding referencing and I asked about schedule etc,

But all good we will here soon :)
Thanks Becka.

@Bug2023 .

How are you feeling now it’s getting closer to our start date? I handed my notice in to my current employer last week, suddenly makes it feel more real, and quite frankly kind of nervous!

I’ve popped you over a follow request on Insta just now.
Explained above in post 356. The 24 weeks is a rough timeframe for the classroom stage (PTS, rules and traction). The next stage will be going out with a DI and train handling/route learning. The time time for this will vary depending on your depot’s routes, and how quickly a DI is available: if you’re lucky you might get one the week after you finish rules, if not, you might wait several months for one.

Expect the whole process, from walking in the door to passing out, to take 12-18 months.

Ah, I must have missed that post when I was catching up. Many thanks for clarifying, it makes a lot more sense now.
 
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Very helpful, good insight to what is to come. It also says “their are points you will have to take annual leave” what and when are these and roughly for how long?,

As for functional skills I gained mine in a previous apprenticeship last year, I take it I won’t need to resit

Thanks
Depends on when the course falls, to try and ease your AL allowance when you arrive to depot they may include a weeks AL between rules and traction, but it really depends - hopefully all set out on your joining instructions when you receive the email.

Can’t answer with regards to functional skills as that’s the apprenticeship teams domain :)
 

asrut10

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7 Dec 2024
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Hi, I’m after advice on the TPWS sheet for DMI, did you all manage to learn the TPWS word for word then relay it back to them in the interview as it’s written?
 

krisg92

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Hi, I’m after advice on the TPWS sheet for DMI, did you all manage to learn the TPWS word for word then relay it back to them in the interview as it’s written?
That's what I done yes. Then they cut me off halfway and they said you clearly know it, no need to go on. However I'd be confident to say if you explain exactly what it does and how it works, where it's found etc I think it would be okay. I believe they are looking at how well you can retain new information. I just found it easier to recite it worse for word.
 

asrut10

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That's what I done yes. Then they cut me off halfway and they said you clearly know it, no need to go on. However I'd be confident to say if you explain exactly what it does and how it works, where it's found etc I think it would be okay. I believe they are looking at how well you can retain new information. I just found it easier to recite it worse for word.
Thanks mate, any other tips for the DMI
 

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