Southern 377 on FCC diagrams this week

[12CSVT]

Southern liveried 377209 has been working FCC diagrams this week (in multiple with FCC liveried units). Has it transferred to FCC a month early ? I thought the 377/2s weren't due to transfer to FCC until the May timetable change.

 

[RichardN]

Saw it this morning at East Croydon. If it is an early transfer then my questions about whether the PIS announcement programming was compatible may not be relevant...

 

[user15681]

Southern are refurbishing the 3 x 377/2 that they lease to FCC, which are 377207/211/212. In order to refresh them, one needs to be released and to do this they swap it with another 377/2. 377209 has gone to FCC for now so that 377207 can go for a refresh.

Once 377207 returns from refresh, 377209 will stay in the consist to allow one of the others to go for refresh and then eventually the last one will go. 377207/211/212 will most likely then reform. 377209 will then stay with FCC I should imagine, as it wouldn't be long until the May transfer at that point.

So basically, only this one 377/2 has gone over early to allow one unit at a time to be released for refresh.

 

[Class377/5]

Plan is to keep 209 with Thameslink to start the release of the 319s. The second batch of 377/2 going to FCC (basically 208-210/213-215) may be delayed by the late arrival of the 377/7 which are already 6 weeks late and counting. Rumor is that just 2x 377/2 will transfer to FCC with 209 being the first.

The refurbishment work should only take around a week a unit so all three should be done by the end of the month but once that's complete the 377/5 will need to go back to Southern for bogie work. This is why despite 6x 377/2 transferring to Thameslink duties, only 3x 319s are released to allow maintenance on both the 319 & 377 fleets without a drop in passenger numbers.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Do we have a date yet for transfer of the other 5 units (377.208/10/13-15)?

 

[patstonuk]

Do we have a date yet for transfer of the other 5 units (377.208/10/13-15)?

Best not hold your breath given the apparent inability of Bombardier to deliver 377/7s to Southern to enable the latter to release those 377/2s.

 

[westcoaster]

What's the issues with the /7's.

 

[Class377/5]

Best not hold your breath given the apparent inability of Bombardier to deliver 377/7s to Southern to enable the latter to release those 377/2s.

Indeed 209 is currently at Selhurst as planned and may not come due to the late 377/7 for awhile. In its confusion, Rail News stated two Electrostars were going to FCC from Thameslink shortly (which is confused as being 377/7s) with the rest later on this year.

The first 319 going to Northern was planned to leave the SE next week but that's now on ice.

 

[Class2ldn]

Well they wont be getting rid of too many 319s until fcc have cleared the 377 round the sutton loop. Why its an issue as southern use them round there im not sure lol. I know its because of the centre console but if southern use them then whats the issue really. Id rather be driving a 377 every day then a 319. Obviously just needs the safety guys from fcc to get round there and clear it.

 

[Class377/5]

Well they wont be getting rid of too many 319s until fcc have cleared the 377 round the sutton loop. Why its an issue as southern use them round there im not sure lol. I know its because of the centre console but if southern use them then whats the issue really. Id rather be driving a 377 every day then a 319. Obviously just needs the safety guys from fcc to get round there and clear it.

The 377s are cleared for 4 cars with both FCC/Southern but can't work 8 cars. Southern have stopped running 8 car 377s for this very reason. The problem isn't a TOC issue but more Bombardier. Its got nothing to do with driving position as fact that Southern have put 377s around the loop booked for years (they've done mixes from 4 to 8 cars over the years).

 

[Domh245]

Why can't they run 8 cars? It is odd that they could run 8 cars, and then couldn't run 8 cars. They were operating 6 cars in December, so I'm guessing it is a power supply issue

 

[Class377/5]

Why can't they run 8 cars? It is odd that they could run 8 cars, and then couldn't run 8 cars. They were operating 6 cars in December, so I'm guessing it is a power supply issue

They should be able to run, its the units themselves that's the problem.

 

[Domh245]

Ah, so there is a lack of units? Will they start running on a few sutton diagrams once the 377/2s start to move across?

 

[Class377/5]

Ah, so there is a lack of units? Will they start running on a few sutton diagrams once the 377/2s start to move across?

No its physically the units that are an issue. Its not the amount of them. However the 377/2 and 387/1 are not going to increase the capacity of Thameslink. They are to replace the 319s unit for unit and nothing else. Increasing carriages will be waiting until 2016 when the 700s arrive with the 12 cars replacing 8 cars until all the current fleet is gone.

 

[Class2ldn]

Well I was just going by what the rep told me but knowing him its probably wrong lol. Did seem weird when he said about the centre console as like you say theyve been running them for a while with southern.
Il be glad to see the 319s go, do my knees no good lol.

 

[sd0733]

377209 is currently standing at milton keynes waiting to work the 9:13 to south croydon so its fcc visit was fairly short lived this time around.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

That was quick! I am surprised FCC didn't keep 209...

Are you sure it was definately 209, not 208?

 

[user15681]

377209 did return to Southern last week, was on depot for a little bit. It's all going down to the last minute with the cascades and moves.

In theory the 377/7s should have arrived and been commissioned with Southern, which would release 6 377/2s to go from Southern to FCC, which in turn would release some 319/3s to go from FCC to Northern.

However, no 377/7s have been commissioned yet, so it would be difficult at the moment to release the 6 377/2s. Fortunately, no 319s have moved yet so nothing needs to cover them.

There is a 319 move to Northern planned for this Thursday, which if it goes ahead will leave FCC one short (possibly two short given the unit that got damaged recently). I don't know, but a 377/2 may have to move over again.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Fair enough. 377.209 must have moved after service last Wednesday or on Thurs/Fri as I photographed it in the middle of the formation working the 16.04 return service on the Wednesday.

I'm glad the six 377/2's aren't moving yet, I still have one unit to get which has eluded me for the last 2 months!

 

[Class377/5]

377209 did return to Southern last week, was on depot for a little bit. It's all going down to the last minute with the cascades and moves.

In theory the 377/7s should have arrived and been commissioned with Southern, which would release 6 377/2s to go from Southern to FCC, which in turn would release some 319/3s to go from FCC to Northern.

However, no 377/7s have been commissioned yet, so it would be difficult at the moment to release the 6 377/2s. Fortunately, no 319s have moved yet so nothing needs to cover them.

There is a 319 move to Northern planned for this Thursday, which if it goes ahead will leave FCC one short (possibly two short given the unit that got damaged recently). I don't know, but a 377/2 may have to move over again.

The first 319 is happening on Thursday. As you say that leaves FCC two units down so the fleets going to get pushed that little bit harder.

The 377/7 commissioning is now very late as Southern was expected originally the first unit in service in February, but Southern are now planned the May timetable change without the 377/7s.

 

[user15681]

The first 319 is happening on Thursday. As you say that leaves FCC two units down so the fleets going to get pushed that little bit harder.

The 377/7 commissioning is now very late as Southern was expected originally the first unit in service in February, but Southern are now planned the May timetable change without the 377/7s.

If they're going to be pushed harder then I just hope no more units are lost through faults or damage.

 

[Class377/5]

If they're going to be pushed harder then I just hope no more units are lost through faults or damage.

When the 377/5 were late the fleet got pushed a lot harder. Its not ideal but its the situation.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

How many of Southern's 377/2's are required for peak hour work via the WLL?

If a 319 is to move north this week, perhaps we could see another 377/2 (or two) transfer to FCC for the timetable change...?

 

[Class377/5]

How many of Southern's 377/2's are required for peak hour work via the WLL?

If a 319 is to move north this week, perhaps we could see another 377/2 (or two) transfer to FCC for the timetable change...?

Of Southern's 12x 377/2 they are doing the following today;

6 units on WCML duties
4 units on other duties
1 unit spare on depot

Simply put they can't lose any 377/2 without short forming other services.

 

[Jonny]

The first 319 is happening on Thursday. As you say that leaves FCC two units down so the fleets going to get pushed that little bit harder.

The 377/7 commissioning is now very late as Southern was expected originally the first unit in service in February, but Southern are now planned the May timetable change without the 377/7s.

I take it that would be for driver training, route testing, etc. as there are few "all wires" routes that Northern can use at present. What is good is that it's happening now, though.

 

[Domh245]

Of Southern's 12x 377/2 they are doing the following today;

6 units on WCML duties
4 units on other duties
1 unit spare on depot

Simply put they can't lose any 377/2 without short forming other services.

I'm assuming that the last unit is under maintenance, as you've only got 11 units listed there. If it isn't on maintenance, where is it?

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Of Southern's 12x 377/2 they are doing the following today;

6 units on WCML duties
4 units on other duties
1 unit spare on depot

Simply put they can't lose any 377/2 without short forming other services.

Ah...that's a spanner in the works for transfer then....

But then it does seem daft to utilise 377/2s on other duties (presume DC only) when they could be better used on the WLL. What's going to happen then after the May timetable change when the 377/7's aren't even ready for service!?

 

[TEW]

Using 377/2s on other duties means that other services can be strengthened. If you lost 4 377s out of the general use pool then that's probably 4 12-car services that would have to be shortened to 8-cars. The WLL platforms are only now, or have only recently, been lengthened to allow longer services. The current 377/2 diagrams are a little strange as 2 units are only needed to work additional services in the morning peak and then work other services for the rest of the day. The corresponding evening peak services don't extend past Shepherd's Bush so can be DC only units.

 

[Class377/5]

I take it that would be for driver training, route testing, etc. as there are few "all wires" routes that Northern can use at present. What is good is that it's happening now, though.

Well units based at Allteron won't see much proving work done via Huyton until October/November. Getting the first one up is vital for training needs.

I'm assuming that the last unit is under maintenance, as you've only got 11 units listed there. If it isn't on maintenance, where is it?

Sorry missed on off general duties.

Ah...that's a spanner in the works for transfer then....

But then it does seem daft to utilise 377/2s on other duties (presume DC only) when they could be better used on the WLL. What's going to happen then after the May timetable change when the 377/7's aren't even ready for service!?

Southern requires the other 377/2 on general duties to provide the services. They really need more DC units. The 377/7 are an attempt to balance it.