Southern Day Save and Anytime Travelcard Split

[Searle]

One of the restrictions on the Southern Day Save is that you can't board a train leaving East Croydon, Victoria, London Bridge or Clapham Junction between 1645 and 1915, as I'm sure many of you know.

I've got one of these for the 13th August, and I was planning on getting an Anytime Travelcard Z1-6 from Hertford North so I can get into London early. I was wondering could I split the tickets on say, the 1730 from Victoria to Brighton, using the travel card up until Z6 and then the Day Save onwards. I'm using a Leisure Pass and a Zonal ticket so it meets 19) of the NRCoC (I think at least!), but it's kinda bending the rules a little.

Does anyone have any advice on this, or any previous experiences of this which could come in useful?

Thanks!

 

[John @ home]

I was wondering could I split the tickets ... using the travel card up until Z6 and then the Day Save onwards. I'm using a Leisure Pass and a Zonal ticket so it meets 19) of the NRCoC

Sorry, a Southern DaySave ticket is valid for one day only and is therefore not a “leisure travel pass”.

National Rail Conditions of Carriage

19. Using a combination of tickets
For the purposes of this Condition, a “leisure travel pass” means any multi-journey ticket (excluding Season Tickets) valid for:
(i) at least 7 consecutive days; or
(ii) at least 3 days in a period of at least 7 consecutive days
and includes rover tickets, travel passes, flexipass tickets and BritRail passes.

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/nrcc/NRCOC.pdf

As a result, if using this combination of tickets your train must call at the station where you change from one ticket to the other.

 

[Robsignals]

And anyway you will still have boarded at a banned station, but what if you use the Travelcard on a Brighton line slow calling at Purley where you switch to the DaySave?
Victoria 1721,
E Croydon 1736/49 Front (Purley 1755),
Three Bridges 1828/35,
Brighton 1908.
That's 43 mins longer than the 1730 Vic. Of course I don't approve of bending the rules...

 

[causton]

And anyway you will still have boarded at a banned station, but what if you use the Travelcard on a Brighton line slow calling at Purley where you switch to the Daysave?
Victoria 1721,
E Croydon 1736/49 Front (Purley 1755),
Three Bridges 1828/35,
Brighton 1908.
That's 43 mins longer than the 1730 Vic. Of course I don't approve of bending the rules...

Jump off the train and back on again, then it's definitely not boarding at a banned station

 

[OwlMan]

Not between 16:45 and 19:15 Monday to Friday when boarding trains from East Croydon and London stations (Victoria, London Bridge and Clapham Junction)

The restriction applies to boarding trains from London - not to boarding trains in London. Therefore it applies to all trains leaving London between 1645 & 1915 wherever you board the trains.

Peter

 

[NotDeadYet]

The restriction applies to boarding trains from London - not to boarding trains in London. Therefore it applies to all trains leaving London between 1645 & 1915 wherever you board the trains.

Peter

I queried this with Southern Customer Services a couple of years ago and was assured that the restriction only applies to boarding trains at East Croydon and the listed London stations. In order to be as clear as possible about how the restriction worked I provided various scenarios and was pleased that their reply addressed each one. In case it helps others I have reproduced their reply below:

Further to your recent email, I have now received a response from our WebTIS Technical Team regarding the DaySave Ticket, and I can confirm the following answers to your questions.


1. Does this only apply to trains that start their journey at Victoria, Clapham, London Bridge & East Croydon? Or does it apply to any train that passes through East Croydon (e.g. a train from Brighton to London)?

Answer: The time restriction means that passengers are not permitted to board a train at East Croydon, or any of the listed London stations between the hours of 16:45 and 19:15.

2. Does this affect just passengers boarding at London/East Croydon or does it affect passengers boarding further along the route?

Answer: It only affects passengers that are boarding the train at the listed stations.

3. Does the time refer to when the train departed from London/East Croydon or the departure time at the station where the passenger boards the train?

Answer: The departure time, is the time the train leaves the suggested restricted stations, i.e. London stations, Clapham Junction or East Croydon.

3a) E.g. the 19:02 Victoria to Horsham cannot be boarded at Victoria but can it be boarded at Redhill at 19:31?

Answer: Correct, you cannot board this train at Victoria as it is between the restricted hours, however Redhill is not listed as a station that is restricted so you can board the train there.

3b) E.g. the 16:17 Victoria to Hove can be boarded at Victoria but can it be boarded at 17:04 at Haywards Heath?

Answer: the above is correct, passengers can board the train at Victoria as it is before the 16:45 restriction and can also be boarded at Hayward Heath as it is not restricted.

I trust this clarifies issues for you. If we can be of any further assistance, please do not hesitate to contact us.​

If the published restriction was better worded I think it would be much clearer; e.g. when boarding trains at East Croydon and London stations rather than when boarding trains from East Croydon and London stations

 

[OwlMan]

I would be careful about using a reply to an e-mail over two years old. The T&Cs may have changed several times since then and the restriction may be worded differently (or interperated differently)


Peter

 

[bangor-toad]

Therefore it applies to all trains leaving London between 1645 & 1915 wherever you board the trains.

Peter

Hi there,
No it doesn't.


I use Daysave's quite a lot when I'm down in the area and the way every ticket inspector (both on train and at stations) is that you cannot board at London Bridge, Victoria or East Croydon during the restricted hours.

You can travel to your heart's content within the SN metro area on the local services during the restricted hours but not using those named stations.

For mainline services you can't use those particular stations during the restriction. But you can use trains leaving during the restricted hours provided you board elsewhere - the first station stop south of East Croydon is fine.

To answer the OP, if you use a Z1-6 travelcard this can take you to Purley. Change there onto one of the SN services heading south and your Daysave is valid. The only problem there is that there are only 2tph south from Purely and that might be a tadge awkward.

EDIT:
The same method is also OK using Coulsdon South - and that has more services to choose from.

Alternatively, a single Boundary - Redhill as an add on to the travelcard would be fine.

Cheers,
Jason

 

[NotDeadYet]

I would be careful about using a reply to an e-mail over two years old. The T&Cs may have changed several times since then and the restriction may be worded differently (or interperated differently)

The wording I queried, "Not between 16:45 and 19:15 Monday to Friday when boarding trains from East Croydon and London stations (Victoria, London Bridge and Clapham Junction)", has not changed. I agree it is always possible that Southern have now changed their minds about what it means but apx068's experience suggests no such change.

 

[paul1609]

One of the restrictions on the Southern Day Save is that you can't board a train leaving East Croydon, Victoria, London Bridge or Clapham Junction between 1645 and 1915, as I'm sure many of you know.

I've got one of these for the 13th August, and I was planning on getting an Anytime Travelcard Z1-6 from Hertford North so I can get into London early. I was wondering could I split the tickets on say, the 1730 from Victoria to Brighton, using the travel card up until Z6 and then the Day Save onwards. I'm using a Leisure Pass and a Zonal ticket so it meets 19) of the NRCoC (I think at least!), but it's kinda bending the rules a little.

Does anyone have any advice on this, or any previous experiences of this which could come in useful?

Thanks!

"Southern Employee Cloaking mode on" It does not appear to me that the Southern All Network Downlander has the evening restriction from London and is only 50 p more "cloaking mode off"

 

[Searle]

ah okay then, that makes sense :P okay, I'm sure I'll be able to figure something out. Thanks for all the help guys!

 

[MKD]

"Southern Employee Cloaking mode on" It does not appear to me that the Southern All Network Downlander has the evening restriction from London and is only 50 p more "cloaking mode off"

Agreed AND can self-print the Southern All Network Downlander (S-AND) upto just 2 days before, however the Daysave has the benefit of Group travel with 3-4 adults travelling for the price of 2 that the S-AND doesn't (sigh, as planning a trip MKC-Brighton next week for a group of 5 of us).

Used a S-AND for just such an evening peak hours journey from Gatwick back via East Croydon [got a seat!] through Clapham Junction etc to Milton Keynes Central last month - though the barrier staff at each end had explicity never seen a S-AND before in their careers!

[No ticket checks on the trains at that time of day as there is little breathing room in the aisles/entrances by Shepherd's Bush let alone walking or standing room!]

MKD