Southern Day Save ticket

[mangyiscute]

I have noticed that SOuthern offer an absolutely wonderful ticket which gives the user travel on all of their off-peak services for a day for just £21. I was thinking of getting this ticket for some travel on Monday 3rd January, however, on the website, it says that the ticket must be purchased at least 3 days in advance. I was just wondering why this is, and also since I have found it on brfares (DAYSAVE1 - ANY SOUTHERN TRAIN - BR Fares) whether by going to my local stations (Reading) ticket office what the chances are that they would be able to provide this ticket for me? I would be fine with picking up the ticket probably from London Bridge (since Victoria is shut) before beginning my travels on the day.

 

[JonathanH]

on the website, it says that the ticket must be purchased at least 3 days in advance. I was just wondering why this is

It can only be bought on the website and the three day advance purchase will apply. The purpose of the three day restriction is generally regarded as a revenue protection mechanism whereby it doesn't reduce revenue from more expensive tickets.

There remain some very good value day return tickets on the Southern network for travel outside the London area which can be bought on the day which, with break of journey, also make for a good way of exploring places in the area.

 

[Hadders]

I believe the reason for it needing to be purchased three days in advance is because it has to be manually inputted into the ToD database. A former Southern Pricing Manager explained this in a post a few years ago. I'll see if I can find the post later...

EDIT

Here you go...

Day Ranger/Rover from Brighton

Are there any day ranger or rover tickets that cover Brighton and the South Coast?

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[Andy Pacer]

It's an excellent value ticket, I've used it a few times.
Just be prepared to have to explain what it is to poorly educated Gate line attendants when it doesn't work in the barriers which becomes tiresome after a while.

 

[Alex365Dash]

Interesting to note that in one of the previous threads in April 2021, TrainSplit added the possibility to buy DaySave tickets for journeys where it was cheaper than any other fare i.e. Brighton to Watford Junction entirely on Southern services.

Checking again for Saturday 15th, I’m now offered the Off-Peak Day Return for £27.70 between Brighton and Watford Junction via Kensington Olympia. I wonder if the RCS data has changed since…

 

[OscarH]

RCS does now prevent TrainSplit from selling it - only TOCs are able to sell it now (there's no restriction of which TOCs).

The listed fulfillment methods are CCST and Paper Roll Tickets, interestingly ToD is not allowed, so I wonder if it is using an internal system rather than usual ToD when you buy it online (which was mentioned in the linked post, but it said that was likely to change soon back in 2012)

I do note, as far as I can tell RCS allows for any TOC's ticket office or TVMs to issue them (not sure if its restricted in another data source/if any will even if not)

 

[Andy Pacer]

RCS does now prevent TrainSplit from selling it - only TOCs are able to sell it now (there's no restriction of which TOCs).

The listed fulfillment methods are CCST and Paper Roll Tickets, interestingly ToD is not allowed, so I wonder if it is using an internal system rather than usual ToD when you buy it online (which was mentioned in the linked post, but it said that was likely to change soon back in 2012)

I do note, as far as I can tell RCS allows for any TOC's ticket office or TVMs to issue them (not sure if its restricted in another data source/if any will even if not)

When I purchased my two last year I ordered them online and retrieved them from a non Southerrn TVM.

 

[_toommm_]

When I purchased my two last year I ordered them online and retrieved them from a non Southerrn TVM.

Southern do still tell you to collect it from one of their TVMs, as I believe some non-Southern TVMs in the past either haven’t printed them correctly, or not at all. That’s not to say of course that other TVMs can’t print them successfully.

 

[infobleep]

RCS does now prevent TrainSplit from selling it - only TOCs are able to sell it now (there's no restriction of which TOCs).

The listed fulfillment methods are CCST and Paper Roll Tickets, interestingly ToD is not allowed, so I wonder if it is using an internal system rather than usual ToD when you buy it online (which was mentioned in the linked post, but it said that was likely to change soon back in 2012)

I do note, as far as I can tell RCS allows for any TOC's ticket office or TVMs to issue them (not sure if its restricted in another data source/if any will even if not)

Do you know why they decided to prevent TrainSplit from selling them? Was it intentional?

 

[Andy Pacer]

Do you know why they decided to prevent TrainSplit from selling them? Was it intentional?

Is it to stifle its use as a cheaper alternative?

 

[infobleep]

Is it to stifle its use as a cheaper alternative?

Why introduce such tickets. Or is it more that they have outlived the TOCs purpose, given the situationnthe railways now find themselves in?

 

[Andy Pacer]

Why introduce such tickets. Or is it more that they have outlived the TOCs purpose, given the situationnthe railways now find themselves in?

It may have been to target the leisure market which, pre pandemic, was secondary (generally) in demand to commuters whereas now the tides have turned somewhat.

 

[OscarH]

Do you know why they decided to prevent TrainSplit from selling them? Was it intentional?

If that is the correct ticket, no idea why/whether it was intentional, RCS doesn't provide any reasons for changes

However, I've just had a look at the Southern website, and the NRE page it takes you to, I think the DA1 ticket linked to (which is what I checked in RCS) might not be the correct ticket - I think it should be SD1 (SD4 for groups), for example https://www.brfares.com/!faredetail?orig=CCH&dest=QAS&rte=777&tkt=SD1. This has very different RCS data:

• It can be fulfilled by ToD
• 3rd party retailers can sell this one, so in theory TrainSplit could sell it still
• TOCs are only permitted to sell it online, they can't sell it at a ticket office/TVM

Why TrainSplit is no longer offering it I don't know Looks like it might be blocked in IDMS, that's not my area though

 

[JonathanH]

Why introduce such tickets. Or is it more that they have outlived the TOCs purpose, given the situationnthe railways now find themselves in?

When introduced, Southern were in competition with Thameslink on the Brighton Main Line so shared any revenue on that route. Also, they were looking to gain revenue share from Southeastern and South West Trains on services from the East and West of their network. By offering a Southern only day ranger they kept more of the revenue but could still offer a keen price.

Clearly that situation has changed over the years and it could be argued that Daysave runs the risk of cannibalising GTR revenue if made too readily available.

 

[infobleep]

When introduced, Southern were in competition with Thameslink on the Brighton Main Line so shared any revenue on that route. Also, they were looking to gain revenue share from Southeastern and South West Trains on services from the East and West of their network. By offering a Southern only day ranger they kept more of the revenue but could still offer a keen price.

Clearly that situation has changed over the years and it could be argued that Daysave runs the risk of cannibalising GTR revenue if made too readily available.

Surely that is now government revenue.

But if it wasn't and the companies were separate, would the day save still make sense for them?

 

[Paul Kelly]

Looks like it might be blocked in IDMS, that's not my area though

I think that could be a red herring; RDG's documentation says the AttendedTIS and UnattendedTIS elements in IDMS are deprecated and not to be used, and the OJPEnabled element is only for use by National Rail Enquiries and not relevant to retailers.

 

[47519]

A current problem with this ticket is the situation regarding travelling from Brighton towards Gatwick.

Since the December timetable change, there have been no Southern trains from Brighton on the Brighton main line: there were two Thameslink and two Gatwick Express an hour (both GTR brands).

I asked Southern if there was dispensation to use alternative providers’ services northwards from Brighton. Strangely, Southern said that they did not deal with railcard, fare or journey queries due to the shortage of information, and advised me to contact National Rail Enquiries as they will be able to help resolve my query.

I contacted them, and they said that I would have to travel via Hove or Lewes to access Southern services.

Since then, Gatwick Express has been suspended again, and Southern are now telling passengers to use alternative Southern and Thameslink services to travel between Brighton, Gatwick Airport and Central London changing at East Croydon for London Victoria. As Day Save was not valid on Gatwick Express, presumably the dispensation would not apply to Day save users.

It seems that the distinction between the three brands is far more complex than is necessary

 

[Andy Pacer]

A current problem with this ticket is the situation regarding travelling from Brighton towards Gatwick.

Since the December timetable change, there have been no Southern trains from Brighton on the Brighton main line: there were two Thameslink and two Gatwick Express an hour (both GTR brands).

I asked Southern if there was dispensation to use alternative providers’ services northwards from Brighton. Strangely, Southern said that they did not deal with railcard, fare or journey queries due to the shortage of information, and advised me to contact National Rail Enquiries as they will be able to help resolve my query.

I contacted them, and they said that I would have to travel via Hove or Lewes to access Southern services.

Since then, Gatwick Express has been suspended again, and Southern are now telling passengers to use alternative Southern and Thameslink services to travel between Brighton, Gatwick Airport and Central London changing at East Croydon for London Victoria. As Day Save was not valid on Gatwick Express, presumably the dispensation would not apply to Day save users.

It seems that the distinction between the three brands is far more complex than is necessary

Very good points - and not forgetting that distinguishing between brands/operators can be even more challenging for an average (non enthusiast) passenger give that they just see "a train" - especially when some red trains operated the Southern services.

 

[infobleep]

A current problem with this ticket is the situation regarding travelling from Brighton towards Gatwick.

Since the December timetable change, there have been no Southern trains from Brighton on the Brighton main line: there were two Thameslink and two Gatwick Express an hour (both GTR brands).

I asked Southern if there was dispensation to use alternative providers’ services northwards from Brighton. Strangely, Southern said that they did not deal with railcard, fare or journey queries due to the shortage of information, and advised me to contact National Rail Enquiries as they will be able to help resolve my query.

I contacted them, and they said that I would have to travel via Hove or Lewes to access Southern services.

Since then, Gatwick Express has been suspended again, and Southern are now telling passengers to use alternative Southern and Thameslink services to travel between Brighton, Gatwick Airport and Central London changing at East Croydon for London Victoria. As Day Save was not valid on Gatwick Express, presumably the dispensation would not apply to Day save users.

It seems that the distinction between the three brands is far more complex than is necessary

You can get to London on Southern branded services. Would be a bigger issue if you couldn't but could on one of their other branded services.

I fully accept the legal aspects to this regardless of what they claim though.