Southern say "Do Not Travel" between Arundel, Barnham and Angmering on 11th Sep

[Iggy12a]

Not sure when it was first announced, but I noticed on Southern's website yesterday that a "DO NOT TRAVEL" had been posted for tomorrow, Sunday, as they can't resource replacement buses.
It's not so bad for someone planning a day out along the south coast, but a significant source of passengers on the route, are those going to and from Gatwick. Someone who is coming home from their holidays tomorrow would have had no warning about this, and will be left in a state of panic, when they look on the National Rail app to see that every journey through the affected area is cancelled, and when you click on Alternatives, it gives a journey on Monday. Surely, ticket acceptance should be in place, with suggested alternatives via Guildford and Havant?

Service Updates

Check for service cancellations, engineering works and other possible disruptions on your Southern route.

www.southernrailway.com

Unavailability of rail replacement vehicles between Arundel / Angmering and Barnham means an extremely limited service will run on Sunday 11 September.

Customer advice

West Coastway

DO NOT TRAVEL on Sunday 11 September between Arundel, Angmering and Barnham. There is a severe shortage of rail replacement buses this weekend.

• Littlehampton and Ford station will be closed and not served for the whole day
• Trains will run between London and Arundel, but there will be no onward travel options at Arundel
• Trains will run between London / Brighton and Angmering, but there will be no onward travel options at Angmering
• Trains will run between Bognor, Portsmouth and Barnham but again, there will be no onward travel from Barnham

Journey planners will be updated to reflect this change to the rail replacement service by Saturday 10 September.

East Coastway

An extremely limited bus service will be running between Haywards Heath, Brighton and Lewes. Customers wanting to travel between Lewes and Haywards Heath should travel via Brighton. Journey planners will be updated on Saturday 10 September with the buses we know are running.

The following stations will not be served:

• Cooksbridge
• Falmer
• Moulsecoomb
• London Road (Brighton)

Customers at these stations should use local buses or the help points for assistance.

Edited to provide link

 

[yorksrob]

Are they running services via the Cliftonville curve ? That would presumably be the next best route from the coast to Gatwick.

 

[Snow1964]

If there is a line closure, why would they wait until a day before to try and source buses, surely if there were potential problems it would have been obvious weeks ago.

Unless the bus company suddenly went bust yesterday, or somehow renaged on its contract at short notice.

Perhaps the team sourcing buses did an Avanti and assumed a contract where staff are doing voluntary overtime to operate the buses would be reliable

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Southern have been unable to source rail replacement buses so area advising the following

• Littlehampton and Ford station will be closed and not served for the whole day
• Trains will run between London and Arundel, but there will be no onward travel options at Arundel
• Trains will run between London / Brighton and Angmering, but there will be no onward travel options at Angmering
• Trains will run between Bognor, Portsmouth and Barnham but again, there will be no onward travel from Barnham

Then to compound it they have issues with buses for the Coastaway East Block and advise

The following stations will not be served:

• Cooksbridge
• Falmer
• Moulsecoomb
• London Road (Brighton)

https://www.southernrailway.com/travel-information/plan-your-journey/service-updates


Something seems to have gone very wrong here Southern were able to source 100's of buses to support the recent Brighton Line blockade. So has their supplier let them down as a result of industrial action there?

 

[Alex365Dash]

Are they running services via the Cliftonville curve ? That would presumably be the next best route from the coast to Gatwick.

Yes, but only as far as Angmering, which doesn’t help those who live west of Littlehampton.

What would would be ticket acceptance, but as OP states, none has been arranged.

GWR seem to be operating a rail replacement bus service between Guildford and Redhill/Gatwick Airport tomorrow.

What’s also silly is the suggestion that passengers on local stations on East Coastway between Lewes and Brighton should use local bus services, but then not arranging the ticket acceptance to use said local bus services despite having the same parent company operating both GTR and Brighton & Hove Buses.

 

[yorksrob]

Yes, but only as far as Angmering, which doesn’t help those who live west of Littlehampton.

What would would be ticket acceptance, but as OP states, none has been arranged.

GWR seem to be operating a rail replacement bus service between Guildford and Redhill/Gatwick Airport tomorrow.

What’s also silly is the suggestion that passengers on local stations on East Coastway between Lewes and Brighton should use local bus services, but then not arranging the ticket acceptance to use said local bus services despite having the same parent company operating both GTR and Brighton & Hove Buses.

Oh, I see.

Yes, it is a bit of a mess by the sounds of it !

 

[Kite159]

What a complete and utter farce from Southern.

And what a lovely advert for the bus/car industry over the rail industry, the phrase involving organising an event involving drinking in a brewery springs to mind.

 

[infobleep]

Yes, but only as far as Angmering, which doesn’t help those who live west of Littlehampton.

What would would be ticket acceptance, but as OP states, none has been arranged.

GWR seem to be operating a rail replacement bus service between Guildford and Redhill/Gatwick Airport tomorrow.

What’s also silly is the suggestion that passengers on local stations on East Coastway between Lewes and Brighton should use local bus services, but then not arranging the ticket acceptance to use said local bus services despite having the same parent company operating both GTR and Brighton & Hove Buses.

The GWR bus service stops at every station so takes more than twice as long to get to Gatwick Airport than otherwise.

No longer do they run direct buses from Guildford to Gatwick Airport or even semi-fast buses and slow buses.

There must be a shortage of bus drivers unless it's a cost-saving request by the government.

 

[Haywain]

There must be a shortage of bus drivers unless it's a cost-saving request by the government.

Yes, nationally there’s a shortage and pay isn’t that good.

 

[JonathanH]

What a complete and utter farce from Southern.

And what a lovely advert for the bus/car industry over the rail industry, the phrase involving organising an event involving drinking in a brewery springs to mind.

Small fry really.

Even if there were buses available, that would be enough to put off most passengers. Discretionary journeys will be made another time.

As Haywain implies it is quite naive to imagine that there are always going to be a fleet of buses and drivers on tap for every eventuality. If the rail industry is struggling to resource all of its services, the bus / coach industry is likely to be facing the same issues.

The GWR bus service stops at every station so takes more than twice as long to get to Gatwick Airport than otherwise.

No longer do they run direct buses from Guildford to Gatwick Airport or even semi-fast buses and slow buses.

Neither do they need to run direct buses or semi-fast and slow buses, the demand in my experience is generally quite low when buses replace trains over the Guildford to Redhill route and going via Shalford and Chilworth not that much slower than going via Merrow. (The issue is more having to wait time at those stations.)

 

[infobleep]

Yes, nationally there’s a shortage and pay isn’t that good.

It actually puts me off from travelling when it occurs. Fortunately, I can usually travel another day.

One day I might do it as an adventure but I would be treating it as that in my head, as otherwise id just be thinking this is what to slow, I just want to reach my destination.

Small fry really.

Even if there were buses available, that would be enough to put off most passengers. Discretionary journeys will be made another time.


Neither do they need to run direct buses or semi-fast and slow buses, the demand in my experience is generally quite low when buses replace trains over the Guildford to Redhill route and going via Shalford and Chilworth not that much slower than going via Merrow. (The issue is more having to wait time at those stations.)

The direct bus from Guildford to Gatwick Airport use to allow about 60 minutes to get there

Tomorrow it is 1 hour 37 minutes.

That's just over half as long as the direct bus.

I would be more likely to get the direct bus than one that stood everywhere.

 

[Kite159]

Small fry really.

Even if there were buses available, that would be enough to put off most passengers. Discretionary journeys will be made another time.

As Haywain implies it is quite naive to imagine that there are always going to be a fleet of buses and drivers on tap for every eventuality. If the rail industry is struggling to resource all of its services, the bus / coach industry is likely to be facing the same issue

Start of a slippery slope, after all what will stop TOCs not bothering with replacement buses the next time there is planned engineering works?

Just ensure all trains are removed by 10pm the night before, then basically tell passengers to just "go away" quoting the timetable of the day.

Next time those passengera will simply ignore the existence of the unreliable railway and will drive, but I suspect that is what the TOCs want. They get paid regardless if they carry 10 or 100 passengers, just that carrying 10 passengers will improve time keeping.

 

[Starmill]

Realistically, short of the railway industry leasing its own buses around the country, and employing its own dedicated bus drivers, while just accepting that they will often have to be paid for spare / not required shifts, there is very little that can be done about this sort of thing. They could offer permanent part time contracts of course, Saturday, Sunday and Bank Holiday only, although these would obviously not be enormously attractive roles to many people and as such would need to be paid well to be recruited for. Some stations also would require additional staff to coordinate buses.

The money for this kind of thing is simply not going to exist. Even if long term it produced better value for money, as in some circumstances it could slightly lower the cost of closures for engineering works.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

The GWR bus service stops at every station so takes more than twice as long to get to Gatwick Airport than otherwise.

No longer do they run direct buses from Guildford to Gatwick Airport or even semi-fast buses and slow buses.

There must be a shortage of bus drivers unless it's a cost-saving request by the government.

There are both fast and slow buses between Guildford and Gatwick on Sunday.

 

[danielcanning]

Realistically, short of the railway industry leasing its own buses around the country, and employing its own dedicated bus drivers, while just accepting that they will often have to be paid for spare / not required shifts, there is very little that can be done about this sort of thing. They could offer permanent part time contracts of course, Saturday, Sunday and Bank Holiday only, although these would obviously not be enormously attractive roles to many people and as such would need to be paid well to be recruited for. Some stations also would require additional staff to coordinate buses.

The money for this kind of thing is simply not going to exist. Even if long term it produced better value for money, as in some circumstances it could slightly lower the cost of closures for engineering works.

I disagree, there is something you can do if buses can’t be resourced, postpone the engineering works to another weekend…

 

[skyhigh]

I disagree, there is something you can do if buses can’t be resourced, postpone the engineering works to another weekend…

Do you realise how difficult that would be?

 

[danielcanning]

Do you realise how difficult that would be?

Frankly, tough. As a passenger I don’t care how difficult it would be to cancel/postpone engineering works, I just want to be able to get to my destination

 

[30907]

I disagree, there is something you can do if buses can’t be resourced, postpone the engineering works to another weekend…

And when your bus operator announces that they have been unable to source enough vehicles again....?

 

[paul1609]

The stagecoach 700 bus leaves from a couple of hundred yards south of Angmering station to Littlehampton every 20 mins on Sunday. From the next bus stop in Littlehampton Anchor Springs theres also a700 bus that passes Bognor Regis and Chichester stations every 30 mins on Sundays. Arundel and Barnham stations dont have any Sunday Bus services but both stations have taxi offices and its about 4 miles to Littlehampton

 

[Falcon1200]

If there is a line closure, why would they wait until a day before to try and source buses, surely if there were potential problems it would have been obvious weeks ago.

What a complete and utter farce from Southern.

Start of a slippery slope, after all what will stop TOCs not bothering with replacement buses the next time there is planned engineering works?

Did Southern really only try to source buses the day before? Don't think so, what is likely is that the bus operators with whom they had contracted rail replacement buses (RRBs) have advised Southern at the last minute that they did not have enough drivers to provide the agreed service. Not sure what Southern are supposed to do about that?

BTW GWR also have replacement buses in the Oxford area this weekend, earlier this week their website had a warning that these might also be disrupted due to driver shortage, as a result I used service buses between Oxford and Didcot yesterday; Although there did seem to be plenty of RRBs at Didcot Parkway yesterday afternoon!

And what a lovely advert for the bus/car industry over the rail industry

How is a bus company not being able to run buses a lovely advert for the bus industry?

I disagree, there is something you can do if buses can’t be resourced, postpone the engineering works to another weekend…

Totally impractical for many reasons, and in any case would not magic up additional bus drivers.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Realistically, short of the railway industry leasing its own buses around the country, and employing its own dedicated bus drivers, while just accepting that they will often have to be paid for spare / not required shifts, there is very little that can be done about this sort of thing. They could offer permanent part time contracts of course, Saturday, Sunday and Bank Holiday only, although these would obviously not be enormously attractive roles to many people and as such would need to be paid well to be recruited for. Some stations also would require additional staff to coordinate buses.

The money for this kind of thing is simply not going to exist. Even if long term it produced better value for money, as in some circumstances it could slightly lower the cost of closures for engineering works.

This is planned engineering works not an emergency so this is unusual for Southern not be able to resource RRBs so something has gone awry here. However, they do largely use group bus companies and have a pool of zero hour drivers and support staff to call upon so im surmising there must be a dispute going on with the bus drivers and Southern couldn't then source replacements from anywhere.

 

[Surreytraveller]

I disagree, there is something you can do if buses can’t be resourced, postpone the engineering works to another weekend…

Quite often there are defects within a possession that require rectification. Postponing the works will result in the line being closed

 

[yorksrob]

Are London bound passengers given dispensation to travel via Havant and Guildford ?

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Quite often there are defects within a possession that require rectification. Postponing the works will result in the line being closed

If the defect is that severe the line would be closed beforehand but the wider issue is items of work are left to the cyclic possessions that if not treated certainly become a threat for more likelihood off unplanned disruption or the need to impose ESRs. The other issue is the train crews wouldn't necessarily be available to just reinstate the service.

The issue here is when did Southern become aware of the lack of RRB's and a bit more honesty with the travelling public should be demanded and if i was them i would want to explain why we are letting you down.

 

[Taunton]

This is one of those things that happens when the ultimate financial control goes back from the franchisee to the top level. The same thing in microcosm has happened with the Woolwich Ferry recently. That was run under contract in recent past years, when it had various reliability issues TfL could wave the contract at them and say 'get it sorted quick, up to you how', and it got done. Finally TfL took over the direct operation, when expensive issues arise now it just gets suspended without alternative, often for days or weeks at a time.

 

[43066]

Just ensure all trains are removed by 10pm the night before, then basically tell passengers to just "go away" quoting the timetable of the day.

Next time those passengera will simply ignore the existence of the unreliable railway and will drive, but I suspect that is what the TOCs want. They get paid regardless if they carry 10 or 100 passengers, just that carrying 10 passengers will improve time keeping.

So you’re suggesting it’s not because buses aren’t available, it’s all part of a big conspiracy to get rid of passengers.

Frankly, tough. As a passenger I don’t care how difficult it would be to cancel/postpone engineering works, I just want to be able to get to my destination

Nonsense. Engineering works need to be done promptly, or the railway will likely have to be closed to trains, affecting far more passengers.

 

[PedroHav]

Today there are no trains at the pivotal area of Barnham, Arundel and Angmering. The Network Rail site states there maybe 1 bus an hour and NOT to travel
This means there is no way of getting from Southampton, Portsmouth and Chichester to Worthing, Brighton and Gatwick airport.
Basically the South Coast has been cut in half.
What a terrible indictment of public transport in 20222

 

[Taunton]

This means there is no way of getting from Southampton, Portsmouth and Chichester to Worthing, Brighton and Gatwick airport.
Basically the South Coast has been cut in half.

That's not true. 99% of those making such journeys drive anyway, and are unaffected.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Nonsense. Engineering works need to be done promptly, or the railway will likely have to be closed to trains, affecting far more passengers.

Yes but the industry mustn't lose sight that these sort of debacles also lead to a loss of confidence by passengers especially the turn and go ones who won't come back in a hurry and that will feed the spiral of decline.

 

[43066]

Yes but the industry mustn't lose sight that these sort of debacles also lead to a loss of confidence by passengers especially the turn and go ones who won't come back in a hurry and that will feed the spiral of decline.

True, but I think the point was well made upthread that it’s difficult to see how the shortage of buses/drivers can practically be overcome. As I’m sure you’ll agree, postponing engineering work is not a solution!