Southern Victoria to Portsmouth and Southampton chronic bad performance

[GarethW]

I was informed it was 3 signals in each direction at its worst. HT27/29/31 which are between Bedhampron LC and the A3.

Worth noting as well that E809 at Swanwick on the down (towards Fareham) often gets keyed back to red as that track circuit often flickers when the ground is a little bit moist. Certainly network rail have their share of the flack, but short turnaround times hamper this.

Blimey, I used to commute St Denys to Swanwick and remember reporting that signal flicking from green to red and back on more than one occasion.

Incredible if it’s still happening.

I stopped that commute back in 1997!

 

[HowardGWR]

I think it was explained quite a while ago that when SN reviewed/simplified all their prices, the fares for any flow routed "via Barnham" were basically considered as some sort of loss leader, and west of Havant they were not related much to distance at all.

But that's been the case as long as I remember, as seen from the Southampton area? If a particular train doesn't stop at Basingstoke, Woking or Clapham Junction the idea is to change (preferably at Winchester) into the fairly closely following semi-fast train that will have come up from either Poole or Portsmouth.

But if an intercity service is defined by being faster with fewer stops, then following consultation the people spoke and basically asked for all the calls to stay the same...

I haven't seen that thread about prices. If the Barnham route is a 'loss leader' what are the mark-up products? I thought SN hands all its revenue over to the government, so what interest does it have in what is charged?
As an aside, as this was about SN primarily, the info at Winchester with trains arriving out of order, due to the fallen tree business at Sway, was no great shakes either. The PIS was useless and did not match the announcements.

 

[swt_passenger]

I haven't seen that thread about prices. If the Barnham route is a 'loss leader' what are the mark-up products? I thought SN hands all its revenue over to the government, so what interest does it have in what is charged?

The SN fares changes I’m thinking of were way before the recent franchise changes, I’m thinking more like around 2011 or 12, possibly even earlier.

 

[HowardGWR]

For the second day in a row, I see that the 0527 Brighton to Southampton (and thus the 0733 returning service) is CAPEd with this reason:
"This service was cancelled throughout due to the planned train being replaced with a slower train (MS)".
Anyone any idea what this is supposed to mean? I could see no sign of any substitute service.

 

[HowardGWR]

The atrocious performance on this route on RTT delivered this reason for cancellation (cutting short) of many trains today from Victoria Gatwick.
"This service was cancelled between Horsham and Southampton Central due to a problem with the overhead line power collection equipment (M1)."

Did they install OHLE without telling anyone?
(My example was from
1J26 1136 London Victoria to Horsham and Bognor Regis.)

 

[tsr]

The atrocious performance on this route on RTT delivered this reason for cancellation (cutting short) of many trains today from Victoria Gatwick.
"This service was cancelled between Horsham and Southampton Central due to a problem with the overhead line power collection equipment (M1)."

Did they install OHLE without telling anyone?
(My example was from
1J26 1136 London Victoria to Horsham and Bognor Regis.)

The train was cancelled due to stock and crew displacement after 1C24 lost shoe gear outside London Victoria earlier.

The code "M1" can apply to third-rail power collection faults (generally shoe gear issues) as well as pantograph issues.

Unfortunately RTT is not an official source and sometimes gets the nuanced operational stuff wrong. (Not that the official sources don't also have this issue sometimes!)

 

[HowardGWR]

The train was cancelled due to stock and crew displacement after 1C24 lost shoe gear outside London Victoria earlier.

The code "M1" can apply to third-rail power collection faults (generally shoe gear issues) as well as pantograph issues.

Unfortunately RTT is not an official source and sometimes gets the nuanced operational stuff wrong. (Not that the official sources don't also have this issue sometimes!)

Thanks very much. I have run that program which analyses performance, on this route and here is the link. These are the morning trains in the up direction over the last 4 weeks. The search criteria I used is shewn under the results.
http://www.recenttraintimes.co.uk/Home/Search?Op=Srch&Fr=Southampton+Central+(SOU)&To=Gatwick+Airport+(GTW)&TimTyp=A&TimDay=12p&Days=Wk&TimPer=4w&dtFr=&dtTo=&ShwTim=AvAr&MxArCl=5&TOC=All&ArrSta=5&MetAvg=Mea&MetSpr=RT&MxScDu=&MxSvAg=&MnScCt=

I don't think my earlier description of 'atrocious' is undeserved. What can be done?

Edit: I ran it again with the cancellation % turned on and it really is abysmal.
Here's the link.
http://www.recenttraintimes.co.uk/H...tAvg=Mea&MetSpr=RT&MxScDu=&MxSvAg=10&MnScCt=2

Bear in mind that people are hoping to catch flights.

 

[MotorcycleAlan]

It has been another nightmare afternoon and evening, with very few trains from Victoria or Brighton making it to Southampton, and if any did they mainly skipped lots of stops leaving people stranded at stations with no drinks available. I could almost complete delay repay claims with a blindfold on now. Basket case service.

 

[TheCherub1972]

I have the misfortune to commute on this service from Swanwick to East Croydon daily

The morning journeys are normally OK if there are no issues with overrunning engineering works or trains being unable to leave Bognor or Littlehampton for the early morning services. The 0527 Brighton seems to be regular cancellation due to a number of issues but this does not affect me.

Its the evening services that are appalling i thought that RailPlan2020 with the simplified service would have solved some of the issues especially the split of the 1636 London Vic to Southampton at Three Bridges where the service was normally all stops to Bognor when any problem affected the Brighton mainline and the driver for the Three Bridges to Barnham section was delayed.

The major problem with these services is the number of crew required to man them they change/add drivers at three locations Victoria, Horsham and Barnham OBS are normally carried but I have been on trains without them (which makes the regular termination at Fareham fun).

Any issues with the Drivers being late at Barnham at the whole services goes to pot (and Bognor gets the best train service in the country) the past 2 evening have been a prime example of this, already late into Barnham we are told just before that no relief driver is available so onto one of the lovely 40 year old 313 to Havant (with everyone advised to go to Fratton) checked the apps caught the delayed Southampton train with the passengers from the cancelled Brighton Southampton train. This evening was the same again with the train decanting onto the Brighton Southampton train at Barnham and the London - Southampton train going to Bognor.

Last week it was NR Signalling playing games, I was on later train that made an additional stop at Redhill this was overtaken by an all stops Bognor train which used the Quarry Lines at Three Bridges the all stops Bognor train was placed in front of the faster Portsmouth service. Another opportunity was missed at Horsham to allow the non stop to Barnham portion to pass so we stopped one signal behind every station with the service terminating at Havant.

Both Southern and NR seem to have no common sense, stopping services being placed in front of fast services even at the 3 overtaking locations, a completely inconsistent plan for when something goes wrong (where will the train terminate this evening) and when they have traincrew shortages cancelling the Brighton to Southampton train to help the performance stats because its only 2 services rather than the Littlehampton services (the second best train service in the country).

 

[387star]

Only senior top link drivers sign Southampton for some bizarre reason

 

[pompeyfan]

Only senior top link drivers sign Southampton for some bizarre reason

Still, at least all the OBSs know where they are..... oh

 

[HowardGWR]

One measure that would be pragmatically helpful, would be that if the down VIC to SOU train is so late (usually 20 mins or so) and is stopped (PINEd) at Fareham, the staff at Fareham immediately telephone the Southampton staff and advise pax off the Weymouth line (arrives xx.58) to stay on the platform and get the GWR service to Portsmouth (at approx xx.06), instead of crossing over the bridge to get the xx.13 to VIC that's never going to turn up. This depends, of course on the GWR being reasonably on time, but can mean that, equally usefully, one simply gets off at Fareham and waits for the PINEd train to roll in from the siding behind it.

There are other measures that could be useful, if the down service is PINEd at Chichester or Barnham or Horsham (all happen frequently) but on my recent trip from Dorchester to Gatwick, the public address at Southampton just droned out an automated message recommended changing to SN, although I already knew from RTT that the SN was completely up the spout - I mean no trains at all for hours along the coast, not even late ones. Had I not decided to go via Clapham Junction and Croydon, we would have missed our flight. I imagine that it's highly likely that several people did.

 

[HowardGWR]

I know I've gone a lot about Southampton (because that affects me personally) but just look at this extract about Portsmouth services, which interleave with those from Southampton, using the performance history app 'Recenttraintimes'. A link follows.
http://www.recenttraintimes.co.uk/Home/Search?Op=Srch&Fr=Portsmouth+&+Southsea+(PMS)&To=Gatwick+Airport+(GTW)&TimTyp=A&TimDay=12p&Days=Wk&TimPer=4w&dtFr=06/06/2018&dtTo=04/07/2018&ShwTim=AvAr&MxArCl=5&ShwAdv=ShwAdv&TOC=All&ArrSta=5&SvcPcC=SvcPcC&MetAvg=Mea&MetSpr=RT&MxScDu=&MxSvAg=10&MnScCt=2

I've tried to extract it for those who have difficulty.

Search Results
The table below lists all train services departing Portsmouth & Southsea (d PMS) and arriving in Gatwick Airport (a GTW) for the specified time period. Also shown is the percentage of the time that each service arrived in Gatwick Airport no more than 5 minutes late, as well as the average arrival time of each service in Gatwick Airport.

TOC Scheduled Times % Svc % Arrivals Actual Arrival Time in GTW
d PMS a GTW Dur CANC/NR RT-5m late Average Today Yesterday Mon 02 Fr 29/6 Th 28/6
TL 11:15 12:38 1h 23m 32% 47% 12:51 13½L 12:45 7L 12:39 1L 12:45 7L 12:41 3L CANC/NR
TL 12:15 13:38 1h 23m 30% 45% 13:51 13½L CANC/NR 13:43 5L CANC/NR 13:41 3L 13:44 6L
TL 13:15 14:38 1h 23m 25% 70% 14:48 10½L 14:39 1L CANC/NR CANC/NR CANC/NR 14:43 5L
TL 14:15 15:38 1h 23m 14% 57% 15:45 7½L 15:39 1L CANC/NR CANC/NR 15:43 5L 15:40 2L

Well, that didn't work too well, but the first percentage is the % cancelled over the last four weeks!! I don't know why the TOC is shewn as TL. Hmm.