SPAD vs SPAR

[MrPIC]

Hi, does anyone know why the different categories of SPAD were changed to SPAR's and a SPAD? I had heard that it was because if a driver had been involved in anything other than a Cat A, it still showed on their record as a SPAD and would thus put off other TOCs from hiring said driver. Is there any official guidance on why it was changed??

 

[HarleyDavidson]

A Cat "B" or Technical SPAD/SPAR shouldn't put any employer off as it's not the drivers fault, as that's one where the signal reverts to danger in front of the train with insufficient space/time to stop, by either fault or accidental replacement by signaller.

The one's that count are Cat "A" SPAD/SPARs, they go on your safety critical file with super glue and some companies will not entertain a train driver if they have one on their safety critical file and you can't blame them.

And with FFCCTV cameras & OTMR it's quite easy to assimilate all of the information and apportion the blame.

 

[Tomnick]

My understanding is that the change was made to avoid confusion over the difference in subsequent actions and monthly returns (to the ORR?). A Cat 'A' SPAD is still a SPAD, whilst the others are 'merely' operating incidents, aren't formally reportable (in terms of monthly returns etc.) and can't be stuck to the driver! The acronym SPAR appears to have appeared to describe the latter.

 

[SPADTrap]

The one's that count are Cat "A" SPAD/SPARs, they go on your safety critical file with super glue and some companies will not entertain a train driver if they have one on their safety critical file and you can't blame them.

You're confusing the terms with the 'recent' change? A 'Cat A SPAD' with blame being apportioned to the driver wouldn't be known as a SPAR?

 

[ComUtoR]

I thought it had changed to become a european standard but as SPAD was so well used it has been kept.

CAT A SPAD is where a Driver has failed to act on the previous warnings and is considered a 'disregard'

SPAR from what I searched recently isn't listed anywhere as an official term. reading through the reports they are referred to as a signal passed at red but never appear in the glossary.

SPAD's are broken down further than simple Cat A and it is well worth taking a good look at. The severity rating has a much higher significance.

 

[SPADTrap]

I thought it had changed to become a european standard but as SPAD was so well used it has been kept.

CAT A SPAD is where a Driver has failed to act on the previous warnings and is considered a 'disregard'

SPAR from what I searched recently isn't listed anywhere as an official term. reading through the reports they are referred to as a signal passed at red but never appear in the glossary.

SPAD's are broken down further than simple Cat A and it is well worth taking a good look at. The severity rating has a much higher significance.

I recall a briefing a while ago effectively 'doing away' with the categories of Signal Passed at Danger, what was previously known as a 'Category A SPAD' would now be know as just a 'SPAD' and categories B and C and D would also be 'done away with' and replaced by the term 'SPAR' but I can't remember how they catogorised the different 'SPARs', nor can I find a working link to the briefing on the RSSB website

It seems to be one of those things that have changed for those in performance/TDA but makes little difference 'on the line' to us?

 

[ComUtoR]

It was done away with but as always "The Railway" balked and its been kept. It will eventually fade out.

http://www.rssb.co.uk/library/risk-analysis-and-safety-reporting/2013-2014-appendix-q3-spad-tpws.pdf

There is still a list of categories. Even when you check the Group Standards it lists sub categories for Cat A SPAD's

How it directly affect us is that a CAT A is totally our fault and at a specific severity the RAIB/ORR will get involved.

Everything else is Operating incident and someone else will swallow the blame. Going through a red after it gets flipped back by the Signaler used to get treated like a SPAD and went on your record. Now its kinda just swept under the ballast.

As mentioned I cannot find the term SPAR listed officially. Just refereed to. No doubt it will eventually make the glossary. I havent checked the September update as yet and the Dec update is fast approaching.

 

[stut]

It's simple:

SPAD = Signal Passed at Danger
SPAR = Quality produce at a location near you

 

[61653 HTAFC]

It's simple:

SPAD = Signal Passed at Danger
SPAR = Quality produce at a location near you

And there was me thinking it was a sign of the times, with semaphores becoming ever more endangered!

 

[Minilad]

SPAD Signal Passed At Danger
SPAR Spare Pants Are Required

 

[TDK]

A SPAD (signal passed at danger) doesn't necessarily mean a red signal has been passed, a danger signal could be a red flag, limit of shunt, stop board etc. The term SPAR is a new one to me.

 

[HarleyDavidson]

It's simple:

SPAD = Signal Passed at Danger
SPAR = Quality produce at a location near you

That's just downright awful.

 

[scotraildriver]

A Cat "B" or Technical SPAD/SPAR shouldn't put any employer off as it's not the drivers fault, as that's one where the signal reverts to danger in front of the train with insufficient space/time to stop, by either fault or accidental replacement by signaller.

The one's that count are Cat "A" SPAD/SPARs, they go on your safety critical file with super glue and some companies will not entertain a train driver if they have one on their safety critical file and you can't blame them.

And with FFCCTV cameras & OTMR it's quite easy to assimilate all of the information and apportion the blame.

Quite why anything other than a Cat A SPAD should be on a drivers record at all is a disgrace. After all its nothing to do with the driver if a signal reverts to danger - its pure luck if its you.

 

[ComUtoR]

Quite why anything other than a Cat A SPAD should be on a drivers record at all is a disgrace.

I have an incident on my record that really wasn't my fault and one that I was completely exonerated from.

 

[scotraildriver]

Indeed. So why is it on your record?

 

[ComUtoR]

Because its is :/ It's not my choice and personally I'm not sure it matters. I'm a little bothered its there as I was totally in the clear and correct in every action I took. It does drive me up the wall every time I see it on there but I do understand why its there.

Your record is just a collection of events. The importance is how its interpreted and how it's used. If the same incident occurred today I could show that my past actions show that I am capable and competent. It is a record of what happened not that my competence is in doubt.

 

[GB]

CAT A SPAD is where a Driver has failed to act on the previous warnings and is considered a 'disregard'

.

To be pedantic that is not, nor has it ever been, the definition of a "cat A spad". It simply means a stop signal has been passed without authority when all previous signals and indications were correctly displayed in sufficient time for the train to stop normally.

It doesn't necessarily mean a driver has failed to act or disregarded anything.

 

[Dieseldriver]

Also worth bearing in mind that not all category A SPADs are driver error.

 

[Chris M]

Also worth bearing in mind that not all category A SPADs are driver error.

Would that be something like adhesion problems causing the train to slide beyond the signal, despite the driver's best efforts to bring it to a stand in the right place?

 

[Dieseldriver]

Yep, could even have a scenario where the driver is incorrectly authorised to pass the signal at danger due to someone else's cock up. Very unlikely but I'd be willing to bet it has happened to someone somewhere!

 

[ComUtoR]

To be pedantic that is not, nor has it ever been, the definition of a "cat A spad". It simply means a stop signal has been passed without authority when all previous signals and indications were correctly displayed in sufficient time for the train to stop normally.

It doesn't necessarily mean a driver has failed to act or disregarded anything.

When they attributed error it fell into specific categories. "disregard" was one of them. As well as "read through" "read across" etc

Over the last ten years, approximately 1.6% of SPADs have been recorded as being due to environmental conditions beyond the drivers’ expected control. A further 1.8% is due to the driver misjudging environmental conditions. Together these account for less than 3.5% of SPADs. In contrast, disregard and misread errors account for approximately 86% of SPADs. However, the influence of poor adhesion can dramatically increase SPAD risk due to the effects it has on TPWS effectiveness. A number of recent incidents have brought this into focus.

Would that be something like adhesion problems causing the train to slide beyond the signal, despite the driver's best efforts to bring it to a stand in the right place?

Cat A, A4

Yep, could even have a scenario where the driver is incorrectly authorised to pass the signal at danger due to someone else's cock up. Very unlikely but I'd be willing to bet it has happened to someone somewhere!

Cat A, A3

 

[TDK]

To be fair I think the terminology of "disregard" is incorrect as a driver would not purposely pass a red signal. However if a driver does not act on a cautionary aspect it could be that the driver has disregarded that aspect but not intentionally. In my opinion many or probably most SPADS are either from fatigue, low concentration levels or misunderstanding of the surroundings and meaning of the signals.

When investigating a SPAD there are 3 factors to consider. The first is "what happened" that is easy, the driver has passed a danger signal without authority. The second is how it happened. that is quite easy to work out. The 3rd is why it happened now this is a totally different kettle of fish and is the hardest part to discover being there are many, many factors to consider including diagramming, sleep patterns, welfare, training, recruitment etc. etc.

 

[ComUtoR]

Well said TDK

A SPAD is much much more than simple categories. The old error categories sucked and were more punitive than they should have been.

The industry is evolving in its investigations and tying to discover route cause. The one I find the most interesting is the severity rating and how it relates to things like overlaps.

 

[GB]

The sub categories for a cat A spad have been there for years and are nothing new. They do not change what fundamentally a cat A spad is.

 

[MotCO]

Well said TDK

A SPAD is much much more than simple categories. The old error categories sucked and were more punitive than they should have been.

The industry is evolving in its investigations and tying to discover route cause. The one I find the most interesting is the severity rating and how it relates to things like overlaps.

To be pedantic, it should be 'root cause', but somehow 'route cause' seems more appropriate.

 

[TDK]

The sub categories for a cat A spad have been there for years and are nothing new. They do not change what fundamentally a cat A spad is.

The don't but they do differentiate the retraining of the driver, the action taken by NR, the TOC and RIAB etc. There is a fundamental difference with the SPAD at Wooton Bassett and a SPAD where the signal is passed by 1m.

 

[Sunset route]

I hope this helps.

 

[Sunset route]

I hope this helps to clarify.