Split ticket advance missed connection

[MalaiseForever]

Hi all,

I'm looking at booking split tickets for a journey from Crewe-Glasgow.

On my outbound leg I will have an advance from Crewe-Carlisle, and another advance from Carlisle-Glasgow. This involves changing from Avanti to TPE and the connection time is only 15 minutes. If I miss the TPE train due to Avanti service being delayed, am I able to travel on the next available TPE service?

Thanks for the advice. I did try to search the forum and Split Ticketing sites to find the answer to this question but to no avail.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Minimum connection time at Carlisle is 8 minutes.

Presume if you miss the connection at Carlisle, which is often either same platform, or cross platform, it'll be because you've been delayed by Avanti.

 

[MalaiseForever]

Minimum connection time at Carlisle is 8 minutes.

Presume if you miss the connection at Carlisle, which is often either same platform, or cross platform, it'll be because you've been delayed by Avanti.

Yes, that's what I am wondering. If the Avanti is delayed enough to miss my connection am I able to travel on a later service with split advance tickets?

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Where's the Avanti service you're on headed after Carlisle?

 

[MalaiseForever]

Where's the Avanti service you're on headed after Carlisle?

Edinburgh. Hence the change to TPE at Carlisle. Sadly there are very few, if any, direct services between Crewe and Glasgow at present. They seem to be going to Blackpool instead. I have seen it discussed elsewhere on the forum.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Like to think that Avanti would allow you to travel with them on their next service to Glasgow Central which is usually half an hour or so later. Might be advisable to get your ticket endorsed at the Carlisle ticket counter (whilst waiting for this next train) to avoid any difficulties.

If you were made to wait for the next TPE service from Carlisle to Glasgow Central, you'd likely then be facing a minimum two hour delay, which Avanti would be obliged to stump up for, via Delay Repay (and this would be the overall cost for your entire journey) so pragmatically it's cheaper for them to let you travel on their next service, notwithstanding you've got a "TPE only" ticket from Carlisle.

Anyone concur / disagree with this analysis?

 

[MalaiseForever]

Like to think that Avanti would allow you to travel with them on their next service to Glasgow Central which is usually half an hour or so later. Might be advisable to get your ticket endorsed at the Carlisle ticket counter (whilst waiting for this next train) to avoid any difficulties.

If you were made to wait for the next TPE service from Carlisle to Glasgow Central, you'd likely then be facing a minimum two hour delay, which Avanti would be obliged to stump up for, via Delay Repay (and this would be the overall cost for your entire journey) so pragmatically it's cheaper for them to let you travel on their next service, notwithstanding you've got a "TPE only" ticket from Carlisle.

Anyone concur / disagree with this analysis?

Interesting, thanks for the advice. Will wait for a second opinion before I book!

 

[mmh]

Like to think that Avanti would allow you to travel with them on their next service to Glasgow Central which is usually half an hour or so later. Might be advisable to get your ticket endorsed at the Carlisle ticket counter (whilst waiting for this next train) to avoid any difficulties.

If you were made to wait for the next TPE service from Carlisle to Glasgow Central, you'd likely then be facing a minimum two hour delay, which Avanti would be obliged to stump up for, via Delay Repay (and this would be the overall cost for your entire journey) so pragmatically it's cheaper for them to let you travel on their next service, notwithstanding you've got a "TPE only" ticket from Carlisle.

Anyone concur / disagree with this analysis?

Disagree. Last year I had a 2 hour delay changing at Warrington Bank Quay where I went to the ticket office to get authorisation to take the next TPE. Fair play to the member of staff, she really tried but the answer was no. Best part of an hour of phone calls, and a ridiculous palaver of printing authorisation for the next train, and a 2 hour wait for the next Avanti. In future I'll just be getting the next train and letting the staff do whatever nonsense they need to in their own time.

Train "arrived" in Edinburgh a minute early too. It didn't.

 

[Watershed]

You are still automatically entitled to take the next available service complying with your ticket's restrictions. By default, if you had a TPE only ticket from Carlisle to Glasgow, that would be the next TPE service. In turn, this may mean a wait of nearly 2 hours - or possibly longer, depending on whether you are travelling before or after the May timetable change, when the 2 hourly Manchester-Glasgow service resumes.

As the anticipated delay would be more than an hour, and there would likely be an Avanti service which would get you to your destination sooner (as their Glasgow fast service is hourly), Article 16 of EU Regulation 1371/2007 kicks in and you are entitled to request to be re-routed to your destination at the earliest available opportunity.

This means that Avanti would be obliged to arrange for your TPE only ticket to be accepted on the next Avanti service to Glasgow. Whether that is through issuing you a zero fare excess, a written endorsement or simply verbally confirming that your ticket will be accepted is up to them, though one of the first two would be preferable to have something in writing.

In addition, you are also entitled to claim Delay Repay if you are delayed by 15+ mins in reaching Glasgow, based on the total cost of your tickets.

It is somewhat unlikely that this scenario would arise, as the Avanti Edinburgh service is generally given priority in regulation over a TPE Glasgow service, but if the train gets delayed above a certain threshold then the TPE service will be sent first.

In the event that staff at Carlisle refuse to arrange ticket acceptance, it is up to you whether you simply wait until the next TPE service and thus possibly receive more Delay Repay (bearing in mind that if you hold Advances, Delay Repay entitlement caps out at 100% for a one hour delay). Alternatively you could buy a new ticket to travel on the next Avanti service and then contact Avanti custome relations to claim back the cost of this, as well as making your Delay Repay claim, albeit possibly being entitled to slightly less compensation.

 

[MalaiseForever]

Interesting, thanks for the advice all. I will book and hope firstly there is no delays, and secondly if there is a delay to miss the connection, then Avanti show some good customer service and let me on their next Glasgow service.

 

[ainsworth74]

then Avanti show some good customer service and let me on their next Glasgow service

Another thing to note is that whilst I've often been left high and dry by TOC Twitter staff or by ticket office/platform staff it's very rare that approaching, before boarding, the train manager of an alternative service with a smile and saying something like: "Hi! I'm supposed to be on x train but that's been delayed/cancelled, is there any chance I could travel with you as I've got a connection to make/I'll be very late at my destination" hasn't yielded positive results. So I'd always, even if all else has failed, try approaching the train manager of that Avanti service and ask them before boarding if it's okay.

 

[MalaiseForever]

Another thing to note is that whilst I've often been left high and dry by TOC Twitter staff or by ticket office/platform staff it's very rare that approaching, before boarding, the train manager of an alternative service with a smile and saying something like: "Hi! I'm supposed to be on x train but that's been delayed/cancelled, is there any chance I could travel with you as I've got a connection to make/I'll be very late at my destination" hasn't yielded positive results. So I'd always, even if all else has failed, try approaching the train manager of that Avanti service and ask them before boarding if it's okay.

Thanks for the advice. That did work for me last week when all the LNWR services from Milton Keynes to Crewe were cancelled. Actually, Avanti got me in earlier than my normal train would've done anyway, so the disruption was a benefit for me!

 

[yorkie]

It can also be worth generating a through itinerary and bringing a copy of that (this could be in printed or electronic format); any such itinerary which clearly states it is a through journey can help yield positive results.

If you book with an accreddited split ticket provider, you will of course be given such an itinerary automatically.

If you have booked each ticket separately/manually, you can generate a through itinerary of your own from a website such as National Rail Enquiries (NRE) or FastJP.com

 

[MalaiseForever]

If you book with an accreddited split ticket provider, you will of course be given such an itinerary automatically.

Thank you, I used Trainsplit and do indeed have an itinerary from them.

 

[Llandudno]

Another thing to note is that whilst I've often been left high and dry by TOC Twitter staff or by ticket office/platform staff it's very rare that approaching, before boarding, the train manager of an alternative service with a smile and saying something like: "Hi! I'm supposed to be on x train but that's been delayed/cancelled, is there any chance I could travel with you as I've got a connection to make/I'll be very late at my destination" hasn't yielded positive results. So I'd always, even if all else has failed, try approaching the train manager of that Avanti service and ask them before boarding if it's okay.

Definitely the best approach!

The vast majority of of Train Managers/Guards are human…!