SPT Carmine/Cream livery - Introduction/Rollout

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Strathclyder

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Branching off of my recent PTE liveried units-themed thread, I thought I'd pose this question I've had for a while concerning the PTE livery I'm most familar with: SPT's Carmine/Cream (insert your preferred name for it here lol).

And that query is: which unit(s) were the first to recieve it? Have read various sources asserting that it was either a 156 or a 320; I'd like to finally get a concrete answer to this either way as it's been bugging me for some time (I do know that a few variants of the livery were trialed on a few 320s before the final variant for that class was settled on), Same goes as to why 4 303s received it, given their limited - in the long-term at least - future by the mid/late 90s (regardless, it was, in my view, one of the best liveries the Blue Trains ever carried).

Any other queries members may have in relation to this livery (whether it be it's introduction/rollout, notable firsts & lasts etc), you are more than welcome to pose them here. :)
 
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JonathanH

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156433 was i think the first one with a light coloured roof.

Wikipedia says
Then another experimental livery was tried, using carmine and cream on a Class 156 "156 433 Named The Kilmarnock Edition". The carmine and cream livery had "SPT rail" branding new signage, with "SPT rail", was placed at SPT stations.

More here
Description of Strathclyde Passenger Transport livery

When Strathclyde Region was abolished in April 1996, a new Passenger Transport Authority was formed to oversee the existing Passenger Transport Executive. With this change, the identity 'SPT' was adopted for both PTA and PTE.

A new livery to replace the previous orange and black was sought, with a more traditional colour scheme prefered.

The first livery experiment, for the launch of a Motherwell - Cumbernauld service in May 1996, saw a class 101 unit painted in a colourful livery consisting of a shade of Caledonian Railway blue, lined with red, yellow and black.

The next experiment was in September 1996 when a class 156 was repainted by Hunslet-Barclay and named 'The Kilmarnock Edition' for the launch of services between Girvan, Ayr and Kilmarnock.

At the suggestion of a local councillor, 156.433 was turned out in the carmine and cream livery with black and gold lining that was used on coaching stock by British Railways from 1949 to 1956.

These colours also featured on the original livery of the Glasgow District Subway, which celebrated it's centenary in 1996.

Carmine and Cream was the colour scheme adopted by SPT, and was officially launched at the naming of electric multiple-unit 320.306 'Model Rail Scotland' on February 18, 1997.

A continuous programme of repaints for the class 156 units was started in spring 1999, with 28 units painted in the livery by summer 2000.
 
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Strathclyder

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^^ Cheers for that, 156433 did stick out to me as being the first one, but could never remember for sure. It's (coincidental as it turns out) connection to the Glasgow Subway centenary is also interesting.
 
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Glasgow Subway's Cars 122 (scrapped in 2015) and 127 did receive carmine and cream to mark Glasgow Subway's Centenary, and this is just a coincidence. It is not until around 2003 that Glasgow Subway would receive the SPT carmine and cream with the orange stripe and front.

On Class 320 units, 320306 had a deeper cream window band and light grey roof. This unit was named 'Model Rail Scotland' and this was in February 1997. [Click for photo] Unit 320307 followed shortly afterwards, but had narrow window cream bands. [Click for photo]

Units from 320308 onwards received a standard paint job, which included the cream window band dipping below the driver's cab window and also have black roofs. [Click for photo]
 
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Scotrail314209

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Glasgow Subway's Cars 122 (scrapped in 2015) and 127 did receive carmine and cream to mark Glasgow Subway's Centenary, and this is just a coincidence. It is not until around 2003 that Glasgow Subway would receive the SPT carmine and cream with the orange stripe and front.

On Class 320 units, 320306 had a deeper cream window band and light grey roof. This unit was named 'Model Rail Scotland' and this was in February 1997. [Click for photo] Unit 320307 followed shortly afterwards, but had narrow window cream bands. [Click for photo]

Units from 320308 onwards received a standard paint job, which included the cream window band dipping below the driver's cab window and also have black roofs. [Click for photo]
320307’s looks absolutely horrific.

I think the C&C rollout did come quite quickly once they had got a confirmed design, with 318s appearing in late 1997/early 1998.

I know the first two 334s came in a strange Carmine and Cream variant to mirror that of the Class 320/318.

36E88269-5C09-4832-87B8-F98CC3546C27.jpeg
Photo Credit: Jim Giles - scot-rail

Caption: Image shows 334001 derailed outside Glasgow Central in a different Carmine & Cream variant, note the lack of blue stripe.
 
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And they also had original SPT logos and old blue, red and orange swoosh ScotRail logo.

Was it going to be 38 Class 334 units before getting extra two more units, or was it always going to be 40 Class 334 units but also got two SPT Class 170 units (170470 and 170471)? I remember reading in RAIL magazine in early 1999 and mentioned that 40 Class 334 units would be built, along with the artist impressions of the new Class 334.
 

Scotrail314209

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And they also had original SPT logos and old blue, red and orange swoosh ScotRail logo.

Was it going to be 38 Class 334 units before getting extra two more units, or was it always going to be 40 Class 334 units but also got two SPT Class 170 units (170470 and 170471)? I remember reading in RAIL magazine in early 1999 and mentioned that 40 Class 334 units would be built, along with the artist impressions of the new Class 334.
Teething problems with the 334 fleet resulted in 2 being added as a goodwill gesture I believe.
 

Strathclyder

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And they also had original SPT logos and old blue, red and orange swoosh ScotRail logo.

Was it going to be 38 Class 334 units before getting extra two more units, or was it always going to be 40 Class 334 units but also got two SPT Class 170 units (170470 and 170471)? I remember reading in RAIL magazine in early 1999 and mentioned that 40 Class 334 units would be built, along with the artist impressions of the new Class 334.
Teething problems with the 334 fleet resulted in 2 being added as a goodwill gesture I believe.
Have always wondered about this '2 extra 334s being added to the original order' thing. Wikipedia cites it in their article on the class, but it's bookended with [citation needed]. It would be nice if someone could clear this one up one way or the other, that said.

As for those two 170s (just to confuse the above matter, some sources cite these two as being built as a goodwill gesture), they were delivered in a variant of C&C much closer in design to the original (complete with black/gold bands), albeit with a different style SPT logo (linked images from the Steven Taylor Flickr stream). Personally, I think it works/looks better on them than the variant the rest of the SPT 170s received.



The first Class 314 to receive C&C was 314215 in August 1997 & not 314203 as has been postulated, that one emerged from it's post-Newton rebuild in Orange/Black in May 1996 (linked photos from the George, Ewan & North Briton Railways Flickr collections). In spite of their fleet size, the 314s were the ones to resist the C&C paintbrush the longest; it took over 9 years to repaint the entire fleet (314202 finally succumbed in November 2006, the last unit to retain the Orange/Black livery in frontline service).



 
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Scotrail314209

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Have always wondered about this '2 extra 334s being added to the original order' thing. Wikipedia cites it in their article on the class, but it's bookended with [citation needed]. It would be nice if someone could clear this one up one way or the other, that said.

As for those two 170s (just to confuse the above matter, some sources cite these two as being built as a goodwill gesture), they were delivered in a variant of C&C much closer in design to the original (complete with black/gold bands), albeit with a different style SPT logo (linked images from the Steven Taylor Flickr stream). Personally, I think it works/looks better on them than the variant the rest of the SPT 170s received.



The first Class 314 to receive C&C was 314215 in August 1997 & not 314203 as has been postulated, that one emerged from it's post-Newton rebuild in Orange/Black in May 1996 (linked photos from the George, Ewan & North Briton Railways Flickr collections). In spite of their fleet size, the 314s were the ones to resist the C&C paintbrush the longest; it took over 9 years to repaint the entire fleet (314202 finally succumbed in November 2006, the last unit to retain the Orange/Black livery in frontline service).



It’s still very jarring to see the 314 in SPT at the likes of Hyndland.

170470 and 471 kept their SPT interior until at least 2017/18 when they got refurbished. The interior looked good on the Turbostars.
 

Neptune

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156433 was definitely the first unit in C&C but was different to the rest. As well as the light grey roof it also had the cream window bands wrap straight around the front.

The remainder had the cream stop between the front and the cab side window.
 

Strathclyder

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156433 was definitely the first unit in C&C but was different to the rest. As well as the light grey roof it also had the cream window bands wrap straight around the front.

The remainder had the cream stop between the front and the cab side window.
Indeed, as this image (copyright of Flickr's Matt Towe) illustrates.


It’s still very jarring to see the 314 in SPT at the likes of Hyndland.

170470 and 471 kept their SPT interior until at least 2017/18 when they got refurbished. The interior looked good on the Turbostars.
Aye, 314s in general were rarities north of the Clyde (no, am not counting Glasgow Central High Level here lol) after the end of 1999 (barring being moved to Glasgow Works for refurbishment etc). Excluding the farewell tour and a few examples being moved to Yoker for storage pending official withdrawal/removal for scrap, one of the few times they ended up back on their old stomping grounds was when Eglinton/Shields Junction were blockaded for engineering works related to the ill-fated Glasgow Airport Rail Link during the 2007 festive period; at least 5 314s (and a 322) were stabled at Yoker as a result (linked images copyright of Jonathan McGurk of scotrail.co.uk).



It suited the 334s too before their 2012-2014 refurbishment; I overall prefer it to their current 'Saltire' interior.
 
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Logan Carroll

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On the SPT seat moquette was it the 156s or the 318s that got them first or has that been lost to history, they both have a different design (lack of white lines) when compared to the ones applied to the 334s and 170s on delivery and the 318s ( the exterior refresh from refurbishment that removed the gangway doors), 320s (they retained their delviery interior when they were originally painted in SPT Carmine and Cream during the 90s which was changed during the 2004 refurbishment that added new destination boards).
 
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I can't remember, it might be have been both Class 156 and 318 units around the same time, but its got to be one of the classes that got that first, I think it was around 1999. They have since lost their SPT interior with their green moquettes when they received saltire interiors.

The last ones were definitely on the Class 156s and this was in 2019 when the Ashbournes were replaced with Fansia 'iron-board' seats.
 

Logan Carroll

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Have always wondered about this '2 extra 334s being added to the original order' thing. Wikipedia cites it in their article on the class, but it's bookended with [citation needed]. It would be nice if someone could clear this one up one way or the other, that said.

As for those two 170s (just to confuse the above matter, some sources cite these two as being built as a goodwill gesture), they were delivered in a variant of C&C much closer in design to the original (complete with black/gold bands), albeit with a different style SPT logo (linked images from the Steven Taylor Flickr stream). Personally, I think it works/looks better on them than the variant the rest of the SPT 170s received.



The first Class 314 to receive C&C was 314215 in August 1997 & not 314203 as has been postulated, that one emerged from it's post-Newton rebuild in Orange/Black in May 1996 (linked photos from the George, Ewan & North Briton Railways Flickr collections). In spite of their fleet size, the 314s were the ones to resist the C&C paintbrush the longest; it took over 9 years to repaint the entire fleet (314202 finally succumbed in November 2006, the last unit to retain the Orange/Black livery in frontline service).



I always liked Strathclyde orange with the First logo, take away the black part and it would have worked very well as a modern livery. Nowhere near as unique and memorable as Carmine and Cream though.
 

Strathclyder

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I always liked Strathclyde orange with the First logo, take away the black part and it would have worked very well as a modern livery. Nowhere near as unique and memorable as Carmine and Cream though.
Now you've done it, you've poked that hornet's nest! lol

Personally, I prefer Carmine & Cream primarily because it's what I grew up with, but Orange/Black is a close second. I can certainly see why some prefer it over C&C though.
 

Scotrail314209

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Now you've done it, you've poked that hornet's nest! lol

Personally, I prefer Carmine & Cream primarily because it's what I grew up with, but Orange/Black is a close second. I can certainly see why some prefer it over C&C though.
Yes, I also grew up with C&C, with vague memories of ScotRail Swoosh and the last units in Orange & Black.

I also remember the abhorrent announcer on the 334 trains.
 

Strathclyder

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Yes, I also grew up with C&C, with vague memories of ScotRail Swoosh and the last units in Orange & Black.

I also remember the abhorrent announcer on the 334 trains.
The last 314s in Orange/Black, plus the odd 320 and one of my only 303 rides (from Dumbarton Central to Balloch & Balloch-Singer) are my only real memories of O/B. The ScotRail 'swoosh' or 'swoop' remains one of my all-time railway-related logos, up there with the SPT 'Flash' logo.

I do recall the 334s' original announcer being the subject of some derision; I personally have no memories of her; judging from the comments I've seen, that seems to be for the best!
 
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Scotrail314209

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The last 314s in Orange/Black, plus the odd 320 and one of my only 303 rides (from Dumbarton Central to Balloch & Balloch-Singer) are my only real memories of O/B. The ScotRail 'swoosh' or 'swoop' remains one of my all-time railway-related logos, up there with the SPT 'Flash' logo.

I do recall the 334s' original announcer being the subject of some derision; I personally have no memories of her (judging from the comments I've seen, that's seems to be for the best!).
Yes, it is for the best. It sounded like they chucked the poor lady in the recording booth and told her to just say the phrases out loud. It was typical Glaswegian too.
 

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The last 314s in Orange/Black, plus the odd 320 and one of my only 303 rides (from Dumbarton Central to Balloch & Balloch-Singer) are my only real memories of O/B. The ScotRail 'swoosh' or 'swoop' remains one of my all-time railway-related logos, up there with the SPT 'Flash' logo.

I do recall the 334s' original announcer being the subject of some derision; I personally have no memories of her; judging from the comments I've seen, that seems to be for the best!

"Annoying Annie" was the favourite nickname
 
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"Annoying Annie" was the favourite nickname
That announcer was also known as 'Sonia'. Class 156 and 320 units also had them when first fitted with PIS.
That lady sounded like she's a sad woman. That's before Fletcher Mathers took over the voice.

The was a also a man who used to announce safety information, saying 'Laaaadies and Gentleman, for your comfort and safety, ScotRail has fitted, passenger safety notices."

Wasn't another female announcer for a period around 2004 after "Annoying Annie" and before Fletcher Mathers?

Fletcher Mathers is defo better than "Annoying Annie".
 

Logan Carroll

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There’s an very early class 334 cab ride on youtube where the driver laughs at the original announcements.
SPT 'Flash' logo.
I always preferred the SPT Rail one. it’s sad they got rid of it so quickly.
Now you've done it, you've poked that hornet's nest! lol
I meant orange without the black parts lol. But i would still take C&C over orange and black any day. I always thought it faded horribly and made trains look old and grubby. I would have loved to have seen it on the 334s and 170s though.
 

Strathclyder

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"Annoying Annie" was the favourite nickname
That was it, couldn't for the life of me remember her (nick)name lol

I always preferred the SPT Rail one. it’s sad they got rid of it so quickly.

I meant orange without the black parts lol. But i would still take C&C over orange and black any day. I always thought it faded horribly and made trains look old and grubby. I would have loved to have seen it on the 334s and 170s though.
Perhaps a job for any photoshoppers out there? Probably the closest we'll ever get to seeing either class in O/B.

The SPT Rail logo gives me a twinge of nostalgia now, but the 'flash' logo will always be my favourite.

Ah I gotcha. C&C also didn't weather all that well either, few liveries do tbh. Of course it depends on numerous things (quality of paint/finish etc). But I digress, I miss both liveries.
 
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