SR Maunsell Carriages

[STEVIEBOY1]

I recently purchased a couple of SR Maunsell carriages, they were not too expensive and the detailing on them is very good indeed.

I was wondering what era they would be from, they look fairly modern, but before MK1, MK2 etc. They are side corridor compartments, but also with doors into each compartment too as well as gangways to the the next coach.

What types of journeys would that stock have worked in real life. ? Would they be longer distance commuter for example?

Were they only on the Southern, or were they used in other regions?


Tks.

 

[yorksrob]

I believe they worked a lot of main line services in Kent from the 1930's up until electrification. Certainly many (I'm not sure if all) had the narrow body profile to fit the tunnels on the Hastings main line. A lot of express sets would have also had a pullman car included.

 

[Ash Bridge]

I wonder if these could also have been the same type of Maunsell stock that formed the P sets on the former Southern lines west of Exeter until the Dmu's arrived, are there any coach numbers visible?

 

[steamybrian]

SR Maunsell coaches worked all over the Southern Railway from the 1930s into BR days before their final withdrawal in the mid 1960s.

 

[eastwestdivide]

A number would have lingered longer in Departmental use, possibly as late as the 80s - see departmentals.com and Paul Bartlett's photo site.

 

[30907]

I believe they worked a lot of main line services in Kent from the 1930's up until electrification. Certainly many (I'm not sure if all) had the narrow body profile to fit the tunnels on the Hastings main line. A lot of express sets would have also had a pullman car included.

Don't think anyone has produced Restriction 0 or 1 coaches in model form, they are noticeably flat sided whereas Restriction 4 has curved lower body sides but straight windows (and van sections).

A Google search will produce a lot of detail info.

A 3-set of 2 6-compartment brake thirds and a compo could have been seen almost anywhere on the SR, and might still have been working in an express service in the 50s. Interregional services were commonly formed of "long" sets of Maunsell stock alternating with foreign regions' stock.

The semg online website http://www.semgonline.com
Is a good starting point though it isn't exhaustive on passenger stock.

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

I wonder if these could also have been the same type of Maunsell stock that formed the P sets on the former Southern lines west of Exeter until the Dmu's arrived, are there any coach numbers visible?

Yes one is 7211, and I think meant to be before Nationalisation, it has "Southern" written along the carriage sides. The Other must be post-nationalisation, it's number is S7411S.

 

[Ash Bridge]

Yes one is 7211, and I think meant to be before Nationalisation, it has "Southern" written along the carriage sides. The Other must be post-nationalisation, it's number is S7411S.

I think S7411S is a corridor first and S7211 a corridor third both possibly dating from the 1920s.

They were both built originally for longer distance services, but as more modern Bulleid stock and from 1951 BR mk1s entered service they tended to get relegated to more secondary work, the exceptions being summer Saturday's especially on the Southwestern where they could be seen running with Bulleids and even mk1s or all three types together as late as the early 60s, Iam at the moment looking at a shot taken on Wadebridge station in September 1961 showing BB 34069 Hawkinge arriving with a (presumably) Okehampton - Padstow local service formed of three Maunsells, the first is a corridor third similar to 7211 and the second & third coaches are of the same design but are brake corridor composites, the last one being the Padstow through coach from the ACE.

Just to add briefly, they could also probably be found on boat trains to from Southampton etc. and some also received western region prefixes to their numbers, unfortunately I'm not so well up on the other (southern) divisions but I hope that assists you a little.

 

[yorksrob]

I think S7411S is a corridor first and S7211 a corridor third both possibly dating from the 1920s.

They were both built originally for longer distance services, but as more modern Bulleid stock and from 1951 BR mk1s entered service they tended to get relegated to more secondary work, the exceptions being summer Saturday's especially on the Southwestern where they could be seen running with Bulleids and even mk1s or all three types together as late as the early 60s, Iam at the moment looking at a shot taken on Wadebridge station in September 1961 showing BB 34069 Hawkinge arriving with a (presumably) Okehampton - Padstow local service formed of three Maunsells, the first is a corridor third similar to 7211 and the second & third coaches are of the same design but are brake corridor composites, the last one being the Padstow through coach from the ACE.

Just to add briefly, they could also probably be found on boat trains to from Southampton etc. and some also received western region prefixes to their numbers, unfortunately I'm not so well up on the other (southern) divisions but I hope that assists you a little.

From the excellent books of Messers Vic Mitchell and Keith Smith, I get the impression that the Maunsell stock remained on express duties right up until electrification on the South Eastern section (or diesel electrification in the case of the Hastings line).

 

[Ash Bridge]

From the excellent books of Messers Vic Mitchell and Keith Smith, I get the impression that the Maunsell stock remained on express duties right up until electrification on the South Eastern section (or diesel electrification in the case of the Hastings line).

I looked at some shots of trains on the Hastings line just prior to the DEMU takeover and thought exactly the same thing, all or nearly the whole rake formed of such stock, although as I think you mentioned earlier Rob these had the Hastings gauge profile, and even the Maunsell stock used on other parts of the South Eastern seemed to have a smaller profile, is this correct?

 

[30907]

According to Mike King's "Illustrated History of Southern Coaches" and the SEMG lists both were 7 compartment firsts (as the number sequence might suggest.

7211 a "low window" type (the corridor side) originally for Southampton boat trains while 7411 was a "high window" design ending its career allocated to Western Section local trains.

So anything out of Waterloo, basically, but less likely West of Exeter.

Hastings stock was 8ft wide, like the diesels, and Kent Coast stock of that era was 8ft 6, like the Oxted 3D diesels.

 

[yorksrob]

I looked at some shots of trains on the Hastings line just prior to the DEMU takeover and thought exactly the same thing, all or nearly the whole rake formed of such stock, although as I think you mentioned earlier Rob these had the Hastings gauge profile, and even the Maunsell stock used on other parts of the South Eastern seemed to have a smaller profile, is this correct?

I have a feeling they might have been a common fleet from the photographs, however my knowledge of pre-electrics is pretty limited, so I stand to be corrected. There's a few pictures of Maunsel rakes strengthened with the odd mk1 on the Kent coast lines in these books as well.

 

[30907]

I looked at some shots of trains on the Hastings line just prior to the DEMU takeover and thought exactly the same thing, all or nearly the whole rake formed of such stock, although as I think you mentioned earlier Rob these had the Hastings gauge profile, and even the Maunsell stock used on other parts of the South Eastern seemed to have a smaller profile, is this correct?

Correct. Restriction 0 was Hastings, Grove Jn to Bopeep Jn, Restriction 1 originally covered various ex SEC lines but in BR days was basically through the tunnels at T Wells (which is why the Oxted 3D units were built to that profile) - clearances had been sorted by then to allow Bullied and BR stock a free rein.

 

[Ash Bridge]

Correct. Restriction 0 was Hastings, Grove Jn to Bopeep Jn, Restriction 1 originally covered various ex SEC lines but in BR days was basically through the tunnels at T Wells (which is why the Oxted 3D units were built to that profile) - clearances had been sorted by then to allow Bullied and BR stock a free rein.

Many thanks for this, and the previous correction.

 

[yorksrob]

Correct. Restriction 0 was Hastings, Grove Jn to Bopeep Jn, Restriction 1 originally covered various ex SEC lines but in BR days was basically through the tunnels at T Wells (which is why the Oxted 3D units were built to that profile) - clearances had been sorted by then to allow Bullied and BR stock a free rein.

Was Grove tunnel restricted, or was it just the tunnels between Grove Junction and Tonbridge ?

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

Thank you for all these fascinating answers and comments. The two model carriages I just bought cannot be exact replicas of the real coaches, as mine are both 1st class corridor and both high window, but they are still very good and run very smoothly, they are a bit heavier than some of my other carriages. Trouble is, now i think I shall have to look for a fairly authentic Southern steam loco to haul them.