SR South Western division historical patterns 1967-2003

[nw1]

This has come up in a couple of other threads so thought it might be good to discuss here.

I'm particularly interested in historical South Western division (Waterloo) service patterns for the period since 1967, primarily 1973/4 to 1980/1 inclusive (I have not seen timetables for any of these years) so if anyone (I know one contributor has some old timetables) is able to share some info (about service patterns and ideally departure times out of Waterloo, for SWML, Portsmouth Direct, Alton and Woking/Guildford stoppers via main line and Cobham) it would be interesting.

Also if anyone else is interested in a particular year or years, I would be happy to share the info: the periods I am most familiar with are 1981/2 to 1991/2 and 1997/8 to 2003/4, though I do have some 'gaps' in my knowledge even for these years.

Thanks.

 

[30907]

Can do so later today. Just "main lines" not Suburbans or Windsors?

 

[nw1]

Can do so later today. Just "main lines" not Suburbans or Windsors?

Thanks. Main lines and Windsor 'fasts' (Readings, Camberley throughs should they exist) particularly interesting, but anything welcome

 

[Snow1964]

From 1967 to 1973 the main line was basically a 2 hourly service to Weymouth (calling at just Southampton, then Bournemouth then all stations) Became hourly from 1973 or 1974

Was an hourly semi-fast (Woking, Basingstoke, Winchester, Eastleigh, Southampton Airport, Southampton, Brockenhurst, New Milton, Christchurch, Bournemouth.

Stoppers were Surbiton, Woking (divide with Alton portion), then everything to Bournemouth. I have vague memory they skipped the airport. I think at summer weekends Lymington had some through trains to Waterloo (and there was a through portion to Swanage as well). Winter weekends were different with a basic one train per hour stopping everywhere west of Southampton.

The West of England line was also 2 hourly, Woking, Basingstoke, Salisbury then all stations (some that have subsequently reopened were closed at the time). Was also a Stopper all stations Basingstoke-Salisbury. Can’t remember if Andover was served by faster trains. From memory Exeter trains were generally Warship (later class 42) hauled.

Portsmouth line trains were not that different from 1937 electric timetable (although fasts had lost the resturant cars by then, reduced to buffets). 1968-74 saw the replacement of the 4-CORs and 2-BILs etc. Many peak services terminated at the 5 low level platforms at Portsmouth and Southsea

There were others, 4VEPs operated to Basingstoke, some trains only went to Farnham.

The local trains in Hampshire used the 3H DEMUs (Alton-Winchester and Swanage branch, and Eastleigh-Romsey survived to about 1972)

The Windsor lines were still similar to the 1939 electrification timetable, many trains split at Ascot, (Reading portion and a Guildford portion). Some of these were just 2cars, and a few 2car trains operated on the outer suburban branches off peak

Peak hour trains were enhanced, and through trains existed instead of the splitting. Some services skipped stations in the peak.

The suburban service was similar to today (but much quicker), but with Shepperton trains skipping many stations inwards from New Malden or North Sheen in rush hour. Some of these ran fast line (before the outer suburban service was enhanced, as areas around Fleet etc were fields rather than commuter towns in those days).

 

[nw1]

From 1967 to 1973 the main line was basically a 2 hourly service to Weymouth (calling at just Southampton, then Bournemouth then all stations) Became hourly from 1973 or 1974

Was an hourly semi-fast (Woking, Basingstoke, Winchester, Eastleigh, Southampton Airport, Southampton, Brockenhurst, New Milton, Christchurch, Bournemouth.

Yes, I seem to recall reading somewhere that the Weymouth was originally every 2 hours immediately after electrification. I presume the xx30 / xx45 (or thereabouts) pattern was established then? Interesting that the stops on the semi-fast incurred a severe time penalty, such that in (for instance) 1981 you had the semi-fast leave Waterloo just 10 mins after the Weymouth, but arrived Bournemouth just 20 minutes before the next Weymouth, so 30 mins time penalty for only a few stops. By contrast the typical penalty on the Portsmouth Direct was around 1.5 mins.

Also meant it was very difficult to create an even interval service between the fast and semi-fast all the way to Bournemouth, though (say) xx30 and xx55 out of Waterloo could have worked, just - and at least given Waterloo-Southampton an even-interval service.

Stoppers were Surbiton, Woking (divide with Alton portion), then everything to Bournemouth. I have vague memory they skipped the airport. I think at summer weekends Lymington had some through trains to Waterloo (and there was a through portion to Swanage as well). Winter weekends were different with a basic one train per hour stopping everywhere west of Southampton.

This pattern was still the case in the 80s, though from 1985 one of them stopped at Clapham Junction rather than Surbiton. From a post on another thread, and from the Aldershot and District bus timetable on timetableworld, it appears that there was originally, in the late sixties, a Bournemouth/Alton divider and a Basingstoke/Portsmouth divider instead (still with the Surbiton, Woking then all pattern).

The second Alton was provided by a Surbiton-then-all-stations stopper, leaving Waterloo just behind the Bournemouth/Alton (xx43 and xx53) on the opposite side of the hour to a Surbiton-then-all-stations-to-Portsmouth stopper (which maybe terminated in Guildford by 1969).

Sometime between 1969 and 1972 the destinations swapped so that both of the dividers went to Alton and both of the 'all stations beyond Surbiton' stoppers went to Portsmouth, or Guildford.

The Bournemouth slows definitely skipped the airport in 1983. I can still recall the announcement at Woking for these services (complete with intonation and emphasis) and vividly remember 'Shawford, Eastleigh, Swaythling... St Denys, Southampton.... Millbrook, Redbridge, Totton... Lyndhurst Road, BEAULIEU Road... etc. Think the Airport stop came in around 1985.

Presumably the dividers were VEPs from the outset with the remaining BILs on the non-dividing 'all from Surbiton' stoppers?

The West of England line was also 2 hourly, Woking, Basingstoke, Salisbury then all stations (some that have subsequently reopened were closed at the time). Was also a Stopper all stations Basingstoke-Salisbury. Can’t remember if Andover was served by faster trains. From memory Exeter trains were generally Warship (later class 42) hauled.

Pattern remained through the 80s, though the Salisbury 'stopper' originated from Waterloo by that time. xx10 off Waterloo in the 80s, odd hours Exeter (50s and MkIIs) even hours Salisbury (33s with either a 4TC or MkIs; I think in 1983 one Saturday diagram was booked as 6H)

Portsmouth line trains were not that different from 1937 electric timetable (although fasts had lost the resturant cars by then, reduced to buffets). 1968-74 saw the replacement of the 4-CORs and 2-BILs etc. Many peak services terminated at the 5 low level platforms at Portsmouth and Southsea

There were others, 4VEPs operated to Basingstoke, some trains only went to Farnham.

The local trains in Hampshire used the 3H DEMUs (Alton-Winchester and Swanage branch, and Eastleigh-Romsey survived to about 1972)

The Windsor lines were still similar to the 1939 electrification timetable, many trains split at Ascot, (Reading portion and a Guildford portion). Some of these were just 2cars, and a few 2car trains operated on the outer suburban branches off peak

BILs presumably, or HAPs? In the 1972 timetable (which I once had) there was one Reading/Guildford divider per hour, one Guildford only, and one Reading only which was 'express' to Ascot (only a Staines call) then all stations - a forerunner of the 1988-91 Reading 'express' with a similar pattern (Clapham, Richmond then express to Ascot) which strangely enough also featured a Guildford through service - the pattern in both cases being that the Guildford took up the stops skipped by the Reading 'express'.

Peak hour trains were enhanced, and through trains existed instead of the splitting. Some services skipped stations in the peak.

The suburban service was similar to today (but much quicker), but with Shepperton trains skipping many stations inwards from New Malden or North Sheen in rush hour. Some of these ran fast line (before the outer suburban service was enhanced, as areas around Fleet etc were fields rather than commuter towns in those days).

Interesting, thanks. Dorking is an obvious example of a suburban (SUB, EPB or 455, depending on era) service which is forced to be slow due to a lack of paths on the main line.

 

[30907]

Standard off peak hour from Waterloo:
10/08/05/00/10 Exeter (varied over the years according to locos available, and only got to hourly about 1980)
20/50 Portsmouth (slow from Guildford/semi fast - not sure when the xx20 was introduced).
30 Weymouth (2-hourly until c.1974)
47/46 Bournemouth semi-fast (2-hourly to Weymouth until c.1974).
12/42 Basingstoke and Alton (42 continuing to Bournemouth - Surbiton, Woking and slow; some years only hourly beyond Farnham)
22/52 Guildford via Woking, first stop Wimbledon. 22 forward to Portsmouth.
02/32 Guildford via Cobham, ditto, on Fast line
12/42 Windsor Clapham Jn, Richmond, Twickenham. (Weybridge portion was a shuttle from Staines by 1977).

The service that had the most variety over the years was the Ascot route - in bad times there was the basic half hourly service, first stop Staines or perhaps Richmond, but in the early 70s there was an hourly first stop Bracknell at xx40, while in 1977 there were 4tph, partly because of the Feltham Railair link:
06/36 Feltham-Staines-Ascot and 24/54 Richmond-Feltham-Staines-all stations Ascot, cross connecting there (and providing all 4 possible permutations each hour).

Note that no longer distance services stopped at Clapham Jn back then.

 

[jfollows]

Main line down services from Waterloo on a weekday which use the down fast (most of the timetables refer to the line this way, 1967 calls it "through" (versus "local")) to Surbiton

1967 (10/7/67 to 5/5/68) (start of electric service to Bournemouth I think)
13:00 to Exeter, calls at Woking and Basingstoke
13:13 63 to Basingstoke/Portsmouth, calls at Surbiton and Woking, splits at Woking
13:16 95/96 Q path for Southampton boat train
13:27 73 to Portsmouth & Southsea, Surbiton then all stations
13:43 93 to Bournemouth & Alton, Surbiton & Woking, splits at Brookwood
13:47 92 to Bournemouth
13:50 82 to Portsmouth
13:57 53 to Alton, Surbiton then all stations
note no 91 service this hour, next one
14:30 91 to Weymouth, Southampton and Bournemouth only

1974 (6/5/74 to 4/5/75) from suburban timetable (so I can't see past Surbiton, but it shows more FL services which don't go all the way to Woking)
13:00 63 to Exeter
13:02 42 to Guildford via Effingham Junction, Wimbledon then SL from Surbiton
13:12 63 to Basingstoke & Alton
13:17 95/96 Q path for Southampton boat train
12:20 81 to Portsmouth Harbour
13:22 75 to Guildford via Woking, Wimbledon then SL from Surbiton
13:30 91 to Weymouth
13:32 42 Guildford via Effingham Junction, Wimbledon then SL from Surbiton
13:42 93 to Bournemouth & Alton
13:46 92 to Bournemouth
13:50 82 to Portsmouth Harbour
13:52 73 to Portsmouth & Southsea, Wimbledon then SL from Surbiton

1979 (14/5/79 to 11/5/80)
13:00 62 to Exeter
13:12 63 to Basingstoke & Alton, Surbiton & Woking, split at Woking
13:20 82 to Portsmouth Harbour
13:22 83 to Portsmouth Harbour, Wimbledon then SL from Surbiton, all stations
13:35 91 to Weymouth
13:42 93 to Bournemouth & Alton, splits at Woking, calls at Surbiton
13:45 92 to Bournemouth
13:50 81 to Portsmouth Harbour
13:52 75 to Guildford via Woking, Wimbledon then SL from Surbiton

1988 (16/5/88 to 14/5/89)
13:06 63 to Basingstoke & Alton, Clapham Junction & Surbiton, splits at Woking
13:10 to Exeter
13:22 82 to Portsmouth Harbour
13:30 91 to Weymouth (now electrified to Weymouth I think) (now calls also at "Southampton Parkway")
13:36 93 to Southampton & Farnham, Clapham Junction, SL from Surbiton, Woking splits
13:45 92 to Bournemouth
13:55 81 to Portsmouth Harbour
(13:15 & 13:45 stopping trains to Woking use SL from the start, called at Clapham Junction, Wimbledon and Surbiton, then all stops)

That's a start anyway. I'll probably get some more timetables soon.
EDIT to correct some typos.

Interesting to see the Clapham Junction calls in the last timetable. By then I was living in the Portsmouth area so didn't really notice them. In 1983 I remember the fast Wimbledon service because I sometimes cycled to Wimbledon (from my house in Earlsfield, which wasn't all that close to the station) for a "main line" service with a proper brake van which would take my bicycle easily, and it ran non-stop between Wimbledon and Waterloo then.

EDIT Also interesting to see that the fast/semi-fast Portsmouth services "flipped" between 1974 and 1979 - the xx.20 was the faster service in 1974 whereas the xx.50 had become the faster service by 1979, and with a few minutes' tweaking here and there this latter service is the one I remember from my time in Portsmouth 1984-1994.

 

[StephenHunter]

The typical Weymouth operation from 1967 os of particular interest as one of the earlier uses of driving trailers, with the introduction of the unpowered 4TC 'units', along with the 4REPs. The third rail only went as far as Bournemouth at the time.

Services at Waterloo would depart like this:

4TC-4TC-4REP

The whole formation would be driven from the first 4TC with the 4REP doing the pushing.

At Bournemouth, the 4REP would be detached and a 33/1 (fitted for push-pull) would be attached for the journey forward:

33/1-4TC-4TC

The reverse would happen on the 'up' journey.

The timetables make this clear by pointing out that the restaurant car is only available until Bournemouth.

 

[jfollows]

There was one service which I can't currently find which ran 33+4-TC+4-VEP from Waterloo, splitting at Basingstoke with the front portion going to Salisbury. Presumably rear portion to Southampton. Or something similar.

33/1-4TC-4TC

The reverse would happen on the 'up' journey.

The timetables make this clear by pointing out that the restaurant car is only available until Bournemouth.

Sometimes only 4-TC beyond Bournemouth, depending on the diagram of course.

One of my favourite journeys at the time was a late evening "92" from Waterloo, I changed at Eastleigh for Fareham, would have been 1985-87 or so. Sunday or Saturday evening, probably 21:45 departure or so. The stock was 8-TC+4-REP but it wasn't busy, the diagram presumably justified a 12-car set earlier in the day. So it was quite wierd to walk to the front of the train at Waterloo, perhaps be the only passenger in the front coach, and listen to the AWS bell and horn from the driving cab, plus the "right away" bell on departure, but otherwise darkness (outside) and silence. A slight "clunk" on departure as the 4-REP at the back compressed the couplings between the coaches. In due course a fast run in relative silence down to Winchester, for example. Then hop off at Eastleigh for the connecting service, I don't think this connection ever let me down, followed by a 30 minute walk home from Fareham station ...... memories!

 

[Taunton]

The initial 1967 timetable was every 2 hours express at 0:30 Waterloo to Weymouth, and every hour intermediate main points at 0:47 to Bournemouth, with alternate trains on to Weymouth. This gave an hourly service on Bournemouth to Weymouth; I don't remember that just being 2-hourly. The intermediate service didn't make that many extra stops, but these absorbed sufficient time that despite leaving Waterloo just 17 minutes behind the express, it was just about an hour behind by Weymouth, to give an even interval service at that end. Obviously through passengers headed for the express. It was considered a bit odd for the quite significant hourly intermediate service to start at a precise time of 0:47.

This was actually all that was possible with the stock initially provided. In 1974 more of both REP and TC was built, and the fasts became hourly and these all then did the Weymouths. I seem to recall there was an initial plan to use CIG sets on the Bournemouth terminators, but in the end REP/TC sets did it all. The end of electrification at Bournemouth (actually one stop beyond, at Branksome, to serve the depot there), only halfway through the conurbation, was a significant issue at Poole, who only got what Weymouth got, although inter-regional trains from Birmingham etc with Class 47s could terminate at Poole. You have to know the dynamics of the conurbation - Bournemouth, expensive retirement and holiday place; Poole, commercial centre.

When the new service started there was still the curious arrangement at Dorchester South that the Up (only) platform was on a short spur off the main lines, the original station, meaning the Class 33 had to stop and then reverse the train into the platform, Limerick Junction style. The current, tightly curved platform on the main track was not built until the 1970s.

It always seemed a bit unusual sat in the train at Weymouth, 30 miles off the conductor rail, and hear the typical emu underfloor motor alternator/compressor start up when the Class 33 loco was switched in.

That odd Waterloo departure time crept forward to 0:46, and later 0:45.

I once had a spectacular 4-VEP journey, just 4 cars, nonstop from Southampton Parkway to Waterloo, once the express began stopping there, substituting for an REP+TC combination, departing a bit late and actually beating the start-to-stop schedule. It was quite a run!

 

[jfollows]

There was one service which I can't currently find which ran 33+4-TC+4-VEP from Waterloo, splitting at Basingstoke with the front portion going to Salisbury. Presumably rear portion to Southampton. Or something similar.

23:45 Waterloo to Bournemouth & Salisbury, headcode 92, called at Clapham Junction, Woking, Farnborough, Fleet, arrived Basingstoke 00:41. Front portion EMU continued 00:42 to Bournemouth, arriving 01:59. Rear portion left Basingstoke 00:45 for Salisbury, arriving 01:30. Class 33 from the start, EMU on the front.

EDIT: 1988-89 timetable. In 1979 it was just an EMU service to Bournemouth with no Salisbury portion, and in 1974 it only ran as far as Southampton.

 

[Snow1964]

I also vaguely remember the first 20 VEPs (7701-20) always stayed on the Bournemouth line, as they were equipped with AWS from new. At the time other units and lines weren’t fitted.

There was three 3-TS units (altered to 4car in 1974), and I think the through Swanage train used these.

There were a lot more Intercity cross country trains, especially summer Saturdays, very few ended at Bournemouth, most went to Poole or Weymouth. On summer Saturdays could travel direct from Bournemouth to all sorts of places, Liverpool, Bradford, Cardiff amongst others.

For many years the first northbound cross country train called at New Milton about 7am and last southbound also stopped. It was like an early parkway service and meant people could drive without using unlit forest roads. Now they all stop at Brockenhurst (in New Forest) instead.

Portsmouth-Salisbury locals were operated by 3H DEMUs at the time, but there was a faster service operated by cross country DMUs (I have forgotten now, but I think they were Swindon class 123 or 124), although mk1 carriages were subsequently used.

To give a speed comparison with today, during the 1970s the Waterloo-Southampton timing of the Weymouth trains was 69 or 70 minutes (and that was when Northam junction was limited to 15mph and Clapham - New Malden was limited to 65mph. It is 79.5 miles and was the only route on Southern to exceed average 70mph.

Nowadays Southampton-Waterloo takes 79 minutes so journeys now 14% slower at only 60mph (although frequency is higher). Not many cities have seen their service slowed so much over 50 years. (the 1967-76 timings were before Intercity 125 which speeded up many other cities)

 

[jfollows]

The service that had the most variety over the years was the Ascot route - in bad times there was the basic half hourly service, first stop Staines or perhaps Richmond, but in the early 70s there was an hourly first stop Bracknell at xx40, while in 1977 there were 4tph, partly because of the Feltham Railair link:
06/36 Feltham-Staines-Ascot and 24/54 Richmond-Feltham-Staines-all stations Ascot, cross connecting there (and providing all 4 possible permutations each hour).

In 1974 there were the following hourly services from Waterloo on the Ascot route (services which went to Staines and beyond)
xx.12 18 to Weybridge with portion for Windsor detached at Staines, calling at Clapham then Richmond
xx.29 28 to Guildford, first stop Richmond, then Feltham & Staines
xx.40 36 to Reading, first stop Staines, then Ascot
xx.42 18 to Weybridge with portion for Windsor detached at Staines, calling at Clapham then Richmond
xx.59 36 to Reading, portion for Guildford detached at Ascot, first stop Richmond, then Feltham & Staines

 

[nw1]

Some very interesting replies, thanks.

Interesting that the 70s/80s was actually a period of relative stability, with little change in the basic departures from Waterloo from 1967 to 1986 (see below) respectively, and then still the same basic pattern on to 1989.

I also noticed the xx20/xx50 switch on the Portsmouth line sometime between 1974 and 1979. My earliest use of the line was the 1982 timetable, which was to all intents and purposes the same as the 1981 timetable on timetableworld.com.

Some 1980s detail:

By 1981 the '81' was xx48 (rather than xx50) and the '82' xx18 (rather than xx20). Stock detail: The former was invariably 12-car CIG/BIG or BEP/CIG formations in 1982, with just one 8-car during the daytime on the 0748 from Waterloo. The latter was a mix of CIGs and VEPs, the CIGs predominating in the middle of the day with more VEPs close to peak times. Both generally ran self-contained but the '82' used to interwork with the '83' stoppers round the peaks, as the '82' stopped additionally at the smaller stations (such as Milford and Witley) and could not turn around in time to form the up '82' at Portsmouth. Conversely, while the '73'/'83' was largely VEPs, it saw a few CIGs just after the morning, and just before the evening, peak.

The Exeter/Salisbury was xx10 by 1981. Interesting they gave up the long-standing on-the-hour path.

1983, 1984 and 1985 showed no real change to the 1981 pattern, except in 1985 one Alton an hour was cut back to Farnham, the remaining Alton stopped at Clapham Junction rather than Surbiton (the first time Clapham had stops in fast services, greatly facilitating my trip there on New Years' Eve 1985), and the '81' called at Petersfield. Peak services were cut somewhat but the off-peak remained basically the same.

1986 saw some significant changes in Waterloo departure times though only by a few minutes, to the pattern similar to that quoted by @jfollows for 1988 if I remember right. Certainly the '81' and '82' shifted to around xx55 and xx25 out of Waterloo; I have the feeling the latter was retimed to xx22 when a Clapham stop was added a couple of years later. Up services on the Portsmouth Direct also changed by a few minutes (e.g. the up '83' had been xx21 from Haslemere, it moved to xx27). I'm not sure what the reason was for the 1986 changes, though - as radical updates (e.g. introduction of 442s and Weymouth electrification) did not come in until 1988. It did have the effect that the turnaround time for the '82's was tight at Portsmouth Harbour, meaning that most '73's became '83's and the two interworked quite extensively. Result was more CIGs on '83's and perhaps a little more VEPs on '82's, though they did try to maximise CIG use on the 82s by splitting some 81s off peak, running the 81 as 8-car to allow a 4CIG to form the next 82.

1987 was more or less the same as 1986, then 1988 saw the Weymouth electrification and 442s, though ISTR these were delayed with some services still run by TCs, hauled by 73s ISTR, in the summer of 1988 (spent another day at Clapham then, which was by now served by many fasts). I also seem to remember more CIGs appearing on the Bournemouth/Alton dividers in 1988, which were previously, more than any other service, pure VEP.

Over on the Windsors, the 1988 timetable introduced an interesting pattern of xx00 Reading 'express' (Clapham, Richmond then fast to Ascot), xx03 Guildford via Ascot (Clapham, Richmond, Twickenham, Staines then all) and xx30 Reading slower (similar to the Guildford but without Twickenham). The other Ascot-Guildford started back at Reading, giving an even-interval 20-min service Ascot-Reading. While not a regular user I always thought this was quite an innovative timetable.

Will end there but probably follow up with a '90s' (actually May 1989+) post later.

23:45 Waterloo to Bournemouth & Salisbury, headcode 92, called at Clapham Junction, Woking, Farnborough, Fleet, arrived Basingstoke 00:41. Front portion EMU continued 00:42 to Bournemouth, arriving 01:59. Rear portion left Basingstoke 00:45 for Salisbury, arriving 01:30. Class 33 from the start, EMU on the front.

EDIT: 1988-89 timetable. In 1979 it was just an EMU service to Bournemouth with no Salisbury portion, and in 1974 it only ran as far as Southampton.

There was also the 17:00 to Salisbury and Eastleigh in 1983. This split at Basingstoke: 33 and 4TC on to Salisbury, 8VEP to Eastleigh. I think there was also a later peak service which did the same, which ran non-stop through Woking.

The service that had the most variety over the years was the Ascot route - in bad times there was the basic half hourly service, first stop Staines or perhaps Richmond, but in the early 70s there was an hourly first stop Bracknell at xx40, while in 1977 there were 4tph, partly because of the Feltham Railair link:
06/36 Feltham-Staines-Ascot and 24/54 Richmond-Feltham-Staines-all stations Ascot, cross connecting there (and providing all 4 possible permutations each hour).

Note that no longer distance services stopped at Clapham Jn back then.

Interesting to note that this pattern ran all day in 1977. In the 1981-84 period, a similar pattern ran in the shoulder-peaks and contra-peak (05/35 Feltham-Staines-Ascot express, 22/52 as 24/54 above but with Clapham stop) with the fasts and slows alternating Reading/Guildford as you say. However the 'Feltham express' had been removed off peak by then, with a 28/58 to Reading on the 'slower' pattern and a (presumably guaranteed) 2-min connection at Ascot towards Guildford.

By 1985 it had gone completely, with through services to Guildford only in the peak, admittedly at 20-min frequency. Then things changed again in 1988, see above.

 

[Helvellyn]

To give a speed comparison with today, during the 1970s the Waterloo-Southampton timing of the Weymouth trains was 69 or 70 minutes (and that was when Northam junction was limited to 15mph and Clapham - New Malden was limited to 65mph. It is 79.5 miles and was the only route on Southern to exceed average 70mph.

Nowadays Southampton-Waterloo takes 79 minutes so journeys now 14% slower at only 60mph (although frequency is higher). Not many cities have seen their service slowed so much over 50 years. (the 1967-76 timings were before Intercity 125 which speeded up many other cities)

Although that was non-stop Waterloo to Southampton Central; the service today either stop at Clapham, Basingstoke, Winchester and Parkway OR Woking, Winchester and Parkway. With a more intense service timings have been relaxed a little for a reliability, but I have been on trains that have done Clapham to Basingstoke non-stop in 32/33 minutes (schedules 35).

 

[Taunton]

There was three 3-TS units (altered to 4car in 1974), and I think the through Swanage train used these.

I believe the 3-car sets were for use with locomotives; at Waterloo a 12-car train just fitted the platforms, if a loco was on the front, or at each end, then the 3-car sets were to be used in the formation so it fitted. In the end there were virtually no electric loco hauled services on the line, and they were padded out to standard 4-TC sets when the extra vehicles were built in 1974.

The exception was the Ocean Liner specials. I can recall as late as 1990 one of these arriving in Waterloo and the PA announcement "Will all Railmen and Leading Railmen report immediately to Platform 11 for the arrival of an Ocean Liner train". One of the last vestiges of porters. Bet the tips were good.

 

[nw1]

Although that was non-stop Waterloo to Southampton Central; the service today either stop at Clapham, Basingstoke, Winchester and Parkway OR Woking, Winchester and Parkway. With a more intense service timings have been relaxed a little for a reliability, but I have been on trains that have done Clapham to Basingstoke non-stop in 32/33 minutes (schedules 35).

One wonders whether they could move the Woking stop to the Clapham/Basingstoke service to recreate the 'fast to Winchester' pattern of the 90s. Might lead to more bunching at the Bournemouth end but perhaps there isn't so much demand for an even-interval half hourly service from as far away as Bournemouth. (Not sure I have to admit, just speculating - the question is 'are there a significant group of passengers who would appreciate a "crack express" every hour, and is the disadvantage of bunching the fasts at the Bournemouth end by an extra few minutes a price worth paying for that?').

(I'm not totally convinced there is a need for two trains per hour to Weymouth off-peak and outside the main summer season, which I'm sure adds a few constraints further up the line but I haven't travelled on that route at say midday on a Tuesday in the autumn or winter so I'm not sure).

 

[Taunton]

Weymouth is the principal point I travel to/from on the line, and with it being half an hour's walk to the station there, and having to be careful about the town bridge lifting times, it sure is convenient to have what is effectively a turn-up-and-go service to London. But you are correct, beyond Dorchester (there's quite a significant Weymouth-Dorchester local flow that wouldn't be attracted by only an hourly service) I am quite commonly the only one in the carriage.

Certainly on summer evenings, the 3-car train from Weymouth to Bristol can be full and standing before departure while the 5-car London service alongside has just a handful. The Bristol line serves a range of inland places who would like to go to the beach. Bournemouth and along the south coast have no need to go all the way to Weymouth for this.

 

[SWTCommuter]

I think there was also a later peak service which did the same, which ran non-stop through Woking.

IIRC that was the 1810 departure. First stop Farnborough then split at Basingstoke with the 33+4TC continuing to Yeovil Junction and the rear portion, usually a VEP or CIG, forming a stopper to Southampton Central.

 

[nw1]

IIRC that was the 1810 departure. First stop Farnborough then split at Basingstoke with the 33+4TC continuing to Yeovil Junction and the rear portion, usually a VEP or CIG, forming a stopper to Southampton Central.

That sounds about right, I seem to remember that the EMU portion went all the way to Bournemouth in the path of the regular '93' stopper beyond Southampton (which left Waterloo at xx42 off-peak as discussed above), so an 1810 departure would probably be able to take the 1742 path further down the line. I think the VEPs for this service may have come in from the Portsmouth Direct, though not totally sure about this.

(Checked 1981 timetable on timetableworld.com) - There's an 1806 which is first stop Farnborough and a separate 1810 to Salisbury. I think these must have run as one train by 1983; the 1700 also ran as two separate trains (a Salisbury and an Eastleigh) in 1981 but were definitely combined by 1983. In fact in 1981 the 1700 went to Exeter, so there must have been some re-jigging of the peak in 1983 with the Exeter retimed, as it was definitely not Exeter when it ran as the 33/TC/VEP combo in 1983. I do seem to recall one 50/MK-II formation running fast through Woking in the peak, which would have been the retimed Exeter service. 1738 rings a vague bell.

 

[30907]

The EML (Vep-TC-33) workings in 1978-9 was 0645 Salisbury/0758 Basingstoke, after Farnborough calling only Woking.
The 1810 down Salisbury semifast was 33+8TC, but as nickw1 says, it later became a mixed working with additional stops.

Incidentally, the 0900 down Exeter was by then formed off an 0714 Chertsey, fast from Hersham, instead of coming empty straight from Clapham Yard.

 

[nw1]

The EML (Vep-TC-33) workings in 1978-9 was 0645 Salisbury/0758 Basingstoke, after Farnborough calling only Woking.
The 1810 down Salisbury semifast was 33+8TC, but as nickw1 says, it later became a mixed working with additional stops.

Incidentally, the 0900 down Exeter was by then formed off an 0714 Chertsey, fast from Hersham, instead of coming empty straight from Clapham Yard.

What, so the 0714 Chertsey was formed of a 50+Mk-II? That must have been a luxury commute on a line which, AFAIK, has otherwise always in modern (1967+) times been operated by suburban stock.

(I'm a little surprised they didn't use the stock for the 0900 on an additional inbound morning peak from Salisbury to provide more commuter capacity from Salisbury, Andover etc)

 

[jfollows]

What, so the 0714 Chertsey was formed of a 50+Mk-II? That must have been a luxury commute on a line which, AFAIK, has otherwise always in modern (1967+) times been operated by suburban stock.

(I'm a little surprised they couldn't use the stock for an additional inbound from Salisbury to provide more commuter capacity from Salisbury, Andover etc)

No, at least not in my recollection, I don't know about the stock but the locomotive was a class 73 I think.

EDIT For once, my memory is good. Headcode 14, ED315, 07:20 Chertsey to Waterloo in the 1979 timetable, by 1988 was EMU 07:22 from Staines. In 1979 was AIR so probably Mark 2 stock (if used on the Exeter service by that date).

FURTHER EDIT: This EDL-hauled service was the "rump" of a better service in 1974: all services via Weybridge then:
07:45 Chertsey-Waterloo (ecs from Staines Depot)
08:01 Chertsey-Waterloo (07:12 from Waterloo via Richmond)
08:15 Chertsey-Waterloo (ecs from Staines Depot)
08:27 Chertsey-Waterloo (07:34 from Waterloo via Richmond)
16:11 Chertsey-Waterloo (ecs from Staines Depot)
16:50 ecs Chertsey-Waterloo "conveys mails from Chertsey to Waterloo" starts from Staines Depot

Fewer services the other way in 1974 because of the flat junction at Weybridge, but there was one:
17:02 Waterloo-Waterloo via Weybridge, then stations to Chertsey and onwards

 

[nw1]

No, at least not in my recollection, I don't know about the stock but the locomotive was a class 73 I think.

Ah, ok. If it was forming an Exeter service, as opposed to Salisbury, one might assume that it was Mk-II as that was certainly the standard by 1983, maybe it was still Mk-I in 1978?

In that case, it would have provided a rare opportunity for 73 passenger haulage, something which was always hard to come by except the Gatwick Express and boat trains (will discuss the 1989 developments in that area in a subsequent post though..)

Whatever the case, it's certainly another example of those wonderful BR quirky services.

 

[jfollows]

In that case, it would have provided a rare opportunity for 73 passenger haulage, something which was always hard to come by

Yes, I didn't ever go on it but a friend who sometimes travelled overnight from Manchester for a morning start in London would sometimes go and catch it as it also was a means of killing time in the early morning, he was railway staff so likely travelling on a "box" so it wouldn't have cost anything extra either.

I think, like the boat trains, it could quite often be a 73/0 which was a double bonus I think.

Ah, ok. If it was forming an Exeter service, as opposed to Salisbury, one might assume that it was Mk-II as that was certainly the standard by 1983, maybe it was still Mk-I in 1978?

In 1979 there was a 09:00 Waterloo-Exeter which could have been the onward service as long as Waterloo had the capacity for a platform to be occupied by the stock for 59 minutes between 08:01 and 09:00.

EDIT: 30907 already stated that this was the case.

 

[nw1]

OK so will follow up with some details of the 1989-95, or so, period. If anyone is able to fill in the gaps, feel free to do so!

The 1989 timetable has come up on a recent thread about Clapham Junction IIRC, but will discuss nonetheless. Probably the biggest change in the 80s, the Basingstoke/Alton 'dividers' finally ended, with the Alton trains running as a separate service (one Alton, one Farnham per hour as had been the case since 1985). Furthermore, the '75' Guildford stopper became a '53' to Farnham, giving Farnham three trains per hour off peak though the slow was I suspect overtaken by one of the faster services. Also the 'Greyhound' CIGs were introduced on the Portsmouth Direct, with improved journey times, and I think they skipped Woking.

Out of Waterloo it was something like this (thanks to whoever posted on the Clapham thread for refreshing my memory):

xx05 Basingstoke (Clapham, Surbiton, Woking, all)
xx15 Exeter or Salisbury
xx15 Portsmouth and Southsea stopper '73' Clapham, Wimbledon, Surbiton, all
xx20 Portsmouth semi-fast '82', Clapham, Woking, Guildford, Farncombe, Godalming, Haslemere, Liphook, Liss, Petersfield, Havant, Bedhampton, Fratton, PSS, PH
xx25 Farnham semi-fast Surbiton, Walton, Weybridge, Woking, all
xx32 Weymouth fast '91' - think it was fast to Parkway by then. 442s fully introduced by now IIRC.
xx35 Southampton Central (Clapham, Surbiton, Woking, all)
xx45 Poole '92', similar pattern to earlier but now with Clapham Junction and Pokesdown stops. Again mostly if not completely 442s by now.
xx45 Farnham stopper, Clapham, Wimbledon, Surbiton, all
xx50 Portsmouth 'Greyhound' 81 - Guildford, Haslemere, Petersfield, Havant, Fratton, PSS, PH
xx55 Alton - Clapham, Woking, all

Perhaps it was the NSE influence but interesting that in 1989 almost everything ran at exact 'divisible by 5' departure times.

Of interest that year was the variety of stock on the Southampton stopper ('93') which was 100% VEP just a few years earlier. Daytime services were a mixture of VEPs and CIGs of various lengths, including some 12-cars working up to London just before the peak - and of particular interest were about two up and two down services per day which were TCs, hauled by a 73. IIRC the up services were around 0850 and 1650 at Southampton Central.

These interworked with a separate Southampton-Wareham stopper in most hours, with some exceptions.

Moving onto 1990, the main change was the electrification of the Fareham lines, and consequently an additional xx10 to Portsmouth via Fareham (Woking, Basingstoke, Winchester, Eastleigh and all) was introduced. Generally CIGs with a few VEPs from what I could make out. I'm not sure if this interworked with the new Portsmouth-Southampton-Wareham stopper at Portsmouth Harbour that year - can anyone answer this?
Also the withdrawal of the TCs meant that the '93's lost those unusual 73-hauled services, though a nice addition was the introduction of a Southampton-Eastleigh-Southampton round trip as the '93' had about a 55 minute turnaround at Southampton Central. (It no longer interworked with the Wareham as that now came from the electrified Portsmouth line).
This was all nicely done to provide good connections with London services: IIRC this 'shuttle' was timed to connect at Eastleigh with the Portsmouth service - NSE era timetables did seem to be planned to ensure good connections to a much greater extent than recent timetables.

1991 kept the same basic pattern, but the Portsmouths via Eastleigh moved to 'Greyhound' operation and became self-contained (this MAY have also happened in 1990, but didn't study them enough to ascertain this). They also gained a Clapham stop. Main story of 1991 was the peak-hour cuts (e.g. 4 tph peak on the Direct, formerly 6, and many peak services shortened in September due to the withdrawal of the HAPs... last ever HAP journey I did was on the 1758 Waterloo-Southampton stopper sometime in the first week of July 1991 which was an unusual VEP-HAP-VEP 'sandwich').

Next few years are a bit more vague but I think it was 1992 when the Portsmouth fasts largely became 442 operated, presumably the recession meant that there was less need for 10.442 off peak on the SWML so the displaced units were used on the Direct. Also in 1992 the long-standing '73' became a Guildford-Portsmouth 'shuttle', with the Waterloo-Guildford '75' now running again, half-hourly, with 455s.

I do remember 1993 producing drastic cuts on the Portsmouth Direct, with just two trains an hour off-peak: looking at this thread as a whole, this appears to have been the worst service since before 1967. The '82' gained stops at Milford, Witley and Rowlands Castle and the Guildford-Portsmouth 'shuttle' disappeared. Stock was, IIRC, 442s on the '81's and CIG/BEP/CIG combinations on the '82's. Also I think the Waterloo times swapped again so the xx20 was the 81 and the xx50 the 82.

Lastly in this era, I distinctly remember a quirky Haslemere-Waterloo via Cobham service (headcode 74, run with VEPs) which ran every hour off-peak during the day. Was fast to Guildford then all to Haslemere. In one direction (can't remember which) it was looped at Guildford to allow the fast to overtake - even though it was non-stop to/from Waterloo! This was run in addition to the 1993 timetable above, restoring 3 trains an hour to Haslemere at least. I think this was in 1994/95 but I am not sure - anyone else remember this?

That's enough for now, will follow up with a 1997-2003 (slam-door era SWT) post at some point.

 

[jfollows]

xx50 Portsmouth 'Greyhound' 81 - Guildford, Haslemere, Petersfield, Havant, Fratton, PSS, PH

I moved to Portsmouth in September 1984, and my memory is that the '81' services all called at Woking. More certainly, though, they didn't call at Fratton - my first accommodation in Portsmouth was a bedroom in a house between Fratton and North End so Fratton station was the closest one for me, and I remember sometimes having to make the (only very slightly) longer walk from Portsmouth & Southsea because the train didn't stop at Fratton. My 1989 timetable shows the Woking call and the absence of the Fratton call, of course both of these could have changed from the start of the 'Greyhound' services. I remember some years later when the Fratton call was introduced, although by that time it wasn't really important to me because I didn't live on the island any more - I just sometimes caught an afternoon train to London after work from Portsmouth & Southsea (I remember waiting at the back end of the platform, which is slightly remote).

 

[HamworthyGoods]

I moved to Portsmouth in September 1984, and my memory is that the '81' services all called at Woking. More certainly, though, they didn't call at Fratton - my first accommodation in Portsmouth was a bedroom in a house between Fratton and North End so Fratton station was the closest one for me, and I remember sometimes having to make the (only very slightly) longer walk from Portsmouth & Southsea because the train didn't stop at Fratton. My 1989 timetable shows the Woking call and the absence of the Fratton call, of course both of these could have changed from the start of the 'Greyhound' services. I remember some years later when the Fratton call was introduced, although by that time it wasn't really important to me because I didn't live on the island any more - I just sometimes caught an afternoon train to London after work from Portsmouth & Southsea (I remember waiting at the back end of the platform, which is slightly remote).

Fratton calls from memory were introduced when the 3 traincrew depots, one each at Harbour, Southsea and Fratton were amalgamated into a single depot at Fratton.

 

[nw1]

I moved to Portsmouth in September 1984, and my memory is that the '81' services all called at Woking. More certainly, though, they didn't call at Fratton - my first accommodation in Portsmouth was a bedroom in a house between Fratton and North End so Fratton station was the closest one for me, and I remember sometimes having to make the (only very slightly) longer walk from Portsmouth & Southsea because the train didn't stop at Fratton. My 1989 timetable shows the Woking call and the absence of the Fratton call, of course both of these could have changed from the start of the 'Greyhound' services. I remember some years later when the Fratton call was introduced, although by that time it wasn't really important to me because I didn't live on the island any more - I just sometimes caught an afternoon train to London after work from Portsmouth & Southsea (I remember waiting at the back end of the platform, which is slightly remote).

When in 1989 was your timetable from?

I definitely remember they stopped at Woking from 1982-May 1989, and fairly (90%) certain they missed Woking from 15 May 1989 (start of the Greyhound timetable), it's possible I misremembered though. Also fairly sure the Fratton call got added in the late 80s but again may have got that wrong.

 

[D6130]

I moved to Petersfield from Scotland in 1973 and at that time the standard off-peak pattern on the Portsmouth Direct was 3 tph:-

Headcode 81: xx 20 Waterloo-Portsmouth Harbour, calling at Gulidford, Haslemere, Havant and Portsmouth & Southsea
Headcode 82: xx 50 Waterloo-Portsmouth Harbour, calling at Woking, Guildford, Godalming, Haslemere, Petersfield, Havant and Portsmouth & Southsea
Headcode 73: xx 52 Waterloo-Portsmouth & Southsea, calling at Wimbledon, Surbiton and all stations via Woking, except Hilsea in the off-peak

The 81s and 82s were normally 12 car CIG-BIG-CIG formations, sometimes reduced to 8 car BIG-CIG after the evening peak; while the stoppers were either 4 or 8 VEP formations.

By the time I started working on the railway in November 1975, the fast and semi-fast services had swapped departure times and gained extra stops, viz:

Headcode 81: xx 50 Waterloo-Portsmouth Harbour, calling at Woking, Guildford, Haslemere, Petersfield, Havant and Portsmouth & Southsea
Headcode 82: xx 20 Waterloo-Portsmouth Harbour, calling at Woking, Guildford, Farncombe, Godalming, Haslemere and all stations except Hilsea

The headcode 73 stoppers remained unchanged for a few more years.