St Pancras before HS1

[eh_oh]

I have a couple questions on what St Pancras was like before HS1 was built:

• How many platforms were there?
• What was all the extra space used for after the beer storage was no longer used after the 60s
• Did it feel massively empty, such a large building for just the MML

 

[Richard Scott]

I have a couple questions on what St Pancras was like before HS1 was built:

• How many platforms were there?
• What was all the extra space used for after the beer storage was no longer used after the 60s
• Did it feel massively empty, such a large building for just the MML

I believe there were 6 platforms and it never seemed to feel particularly busy. Was better if some engineering work on Thameslink as Bedford trains would start/finish in St Pancras.

 

[Magdalia]

I have a couple questions on what St Pancras was like before HS1 was built:

• How many platforms were there?
• What was all the extra space used for after the beer storage was no longer used after the 60s
• Did it feel massively empty, such a large building for just the MML

Prior to HS1 St Pancras had 7 platforms. The arch, now adjacent to the Betjeman Arms, gave access to a wide carriage road between platforms 5 and 6 that was used for loading/unloading of mail, parcels and newspapers.

The undercroft was mainly used to store coal, which was required for heating St Pancras Chambers. These were the BR offices that occupied the former Midland Grand Hotel. If I remember rightly the headquarters of Travellers Fare was in St Pancras Chambers, and that the offices were closed some time in the 1980s because of fire risk.

Up to the early 1980s the station was quite busy with loco hauled Inter City trains and the DMU suburban service to St Albans, Luton and Bedford. But electrification diverted most of the suburban trains to Moorgate and HSTs had tighter turnrounds that reduced time at St Pancras for Inter City trains, so it was much less busy after those changes.

 

[Tetchytyke]

There were six platforms and the middle road was filled in as a taxi road. Back in the 90s the place was always empty, most I ever saw was three HSTs in there. It was dirty, grubby, unloved, the ticket office in a temporary building at the buffer stops, but the roof was just as impressive as now.

 

[deltic]

Always seemed deserted in the late 1980s, remember watching the newspaper trains loading late Saturday evening, you could usually pick up a paper which had fallen off the back of a lorry!

 

[Andy R. A.]

I worked there from 1972 to 1974. At that time there were still seven platforms. One of my jobs was Station Announcer/Train Recorder in the Signal Box at the top end next to platforms 1 & 2. Had a grandstand view of the comings and goings from high up. The station always seemed busy. However the basic off peak train service was four arrivals and four departures each hour. The hourly Sheffield services alternated running via Derby or Nottingham, with an hourly semi-fast service serving Derby or Nottingham depending on which route the Sheffield had taken. Some of the Derby semi-fasts were extended to and from Manchester via Chesterfield. The DMU services were an hourly all stations service to Luton, with an hourly Bedford service which ran non-stop between St. Pancras and Elstree. Peak times were a lot busier with additional services. There was still the daily 'Thames Clyde Express' at 0800 to Glasgow, and the return working in the evening. For a couple of years previously the overnight service to Glasgow had been diverted to run to and from Euston, but had now returned to St. Pancras leaving at 2130. The only difference now was the Sleeping Cars were attached at Nottingham.
There was still a number of Parcels/Newspaper services running at the time. (The Nottingham News had also been diverted to run from Euston for several years, but had returned to St. Pancras by now). The trains were still busy conveying Mail, and the roadway between 5 & 6 was normally continually busy with Post Office vans hopping in and out to deliver outgoing mail or taking away incoming stuff, with long lines of snaking BRUTE trollies clattering across the concourse heading to other platforms, or in the direction of the Parcels Office next to platform 1.
Platform 1 was only a short platform which would hold an eight car 127 DMU. During the day it was used mostly for loading/unloading Mails and Parcels, but at Peak times the platform would be cleared out for Rush Hour DMUs.
All the 'Inter-City' traffic was loco hauled, so there was also a continual flow of Locos in and out.

The only time it was really quiet was on Sundays, especially before midday.

Undoubtably the busiest times was the occasional diversion of West Coast services when there had been a 'mishap'. The West Coast diversions always presented problems being twelve coaches which stuck out way beyond the platform ends. The station pilot would be kept busy shunting these trains out to release the Locos before putting the stock back for the next working. On one occasion the 'Bottom Table' sidings was full of Locos. It was not often you would see a 40, 47, and even a 50 rubbing shoulders with the more normal Peaks and 25s. (yes, a 50. I still have the clipping from an old Railway Magazine of the time which gave its identity).

I seem to remember that some of the space under the station at one time had a few 'under the arches' businesses for a time ?

Yes, I really enjoyed my time there.

 

[TheBigD]

I worked there during the mid 90s.

Only 5 platforms in use, 2-5, and 7. Platform 1 was lifted, and platform 6 was out of use as it required repairs to the undercroft though it was repaired and reinstated later though I'm not sure of the date. Platform 7 wasn't used that much, as the HSTs had to go slow line for a short distance and that cost a couple of minutes.

The train service at the time was generally every 30 minutes, with services alternating between Nottingham and Sheffield with a couple of extra peak hour services. The single loco hauled peak service would shunt Churchyard Sidings before being stabled in either the line between platforms 2 & 3, or in platform 7. It was later replaced by increased HST utilisation which required 26 out of 31 powercars in service Monday-Friday.

Thameslink services occasionally appeared when their route was blocked or disrupted, though there was 2 ECS service for traincrew route knowledge retention purposes.

 

[yorksrob]

I got the impression that the two platforms to the right of the cab road weren't used that much towards the end.

It was a grand old station to use.

 

[62484GlenLyon]

Until the electrification and resignalling works of the early 1980s there were 7 platforms. No.1 platform was shorter than the others and was rarely used for anything other than a DMU on the suburban services to Luton. This platform was on the extreme left side of the station looking out from the buffer stops. It didn't survive the modernisation. There were also two sidings between Platforms 2 and 3, known as A road and B road and another siding between platforms 4 and 5 known as 8 road. Only one of the two sidings between Platforms 2 and 3 survived.

All six remaining platforms were wired. There was an interesting solution to the problem of installing the anchoring points for the wires in a listed building. A bowstring was anchored to the brickwork of the former hotel and the wires were attached to that. It was very unobtrusive.

The office accommodation on the station was in rooms that had barely changed from Victorian times. In the early 1980s I worked in an office in the corner of the station near the buffer stops of platform 7. There was a small kitchen next door where we brewed up - we were once told never to enquire about the water supply that we used, so we didn't!!

When the station only had one or two trains in it, or just a few parcels vans, it did feel like a huge cavern.

Andy R.A.'s post has come in while I have been tying this post. Talking of the old signal box at the end of platforms 1 and 2 brings back to mind an incident from 1983. The signal box, by now redundant was being demolished. Scaffolding was erected to enable this and the OLE into platform 2 had to be isolated for the duration as the scaffold poles were intruding into it, although diesels retained access.

One afternoon the inevitable happened when a 317 worked train was routed in. The remains of the pantographs were festooned on the ends of the scaffold poles for some time before the train could be moved out of the way and the scaffold checked to ensure it was still safe to use.

 

[gordonthemoron]

I commuted into St Pancras from 1993 until 1997. the ticket office was very old fashioned on the left hand side, a bit like Manchester Victoria. The taxi rank was behind the ticket office and a ramp exited from there onto Midland Road, there was a pub where the Sir John Betjeman is, but much smaller, called the Midland Arms I think. Most of the HSTs used the low numbered platforms on the left of the trainshed, the only regular train I remember using platform 7 was the loco hauled service to/from Derby that only ran in the peak

 

[Andy R. A.]

The office accommodation on the station was in rooms that had barely changed from Victorian times. In the early 1980s I worked in an office in the corner of the station near the buffer stops of platform 7. There was a small kitchen next door where we brewed up - we were once told never to enquire about the water supply that we used, so we didn't!!

I think I remember that ? When I first started at St. Pancras I spent a few weeks working in the old Station/Area Manager's Office which was in the corner of the concourse near platform 7. (Don Royce was the head clerical man at the time, and Phil Dunkley was the AM). As you went through the main door the Office was off to the right, but ahead was a room behind some frosted glass. There were two huge green leather covered benches running the length each side of the room with a table in between and a stove at the far end. The benches were very comfortable, and very good if you wanted 'to catch 40 winks'.

 

[WesternLancer]

It was dirty, grubby, unloved, the ticket office in a temporary building at the buffer stops, but the roof was just as impressive as now.

Not sure about that for the ticket office for most of that time - the 'trad ticket office' had been very nicely restored at some point in the 1980s (poss mid 80s) and during the period I started using it regularly - from 1989, I used that (proper) ticket office on various occasions. It was an impressive room and nicely restored. You don't get much of a look at it now as it is part of the fancy restaurant that is on that side of the building - the British Library side

undated pic here but this is how I recall it in the 1990s

Booking Office, St. Pancras Station, London

This pic says date 2001 and how I recall it. It looked trad as lack of modernisation pre listed building status meant the wooden screen and small windows were never swept away and survived to be restored, as I understand it.

Booking Hall, St Pancras station, London UK

Booking Hall, St Pancras station, Euston Road, London UK

www.urban75.org

Of course not to say there was not a temp booking office by buffers at some point / as well (maybe during the restoration of the old one?)

Also in the building at the buffer stop end was a reasonably spacious Travellers Fare buffet, and where Betjemans is there was The Shires pub, also run by Travellers Fare (until TF was sold off c1989 I would presume). I think there was also a shop in that row at the buffer stop end, like a general store with food, veg etc that was not part of the usual 'chain' brands. I also recall various businesses in the archways down the side street that faces Kings Cross - seem to recall a greasy spoon trad cafe along there.*

Part of the frontage (ticket office side) had had some stone cleaning and restoration work by this era - so you could see the potential - but that came up against a vertical tide mark where the money must have run out!

visible here (1986) with the uncleaned bit in the foreground

Outside view, St Pancras Station and Midland Grand Hotel, St Pancras Chambers, Midland railway company, London UK

Outside view, St Pancras Station and Midland Grand Hotel, St Pancras Chambers, Midland railway company, London UK

www.urban75.org

I recall - and this is probably c1993 posting 1st class post that I had written on southbound MML train in the letter box on the side of a Royal Mail TPO carriage being loaded at St Pancras on the main area by the roadway where mail vans could get in to access the trains.

But overall the station was underused in this period as others describe

Plenty of general pics on line from this period.

* I think it was the Railway Cafe - Restaurant - pictured on this page - that I recall along there - 2nd image down:

London cafes: More Kings Cross cafes | The London Sound Survey

More Kings Cross cafes from a series of photos taken in 2001 of traditional London cafes.

www.soundsurvey.org.uk

Sadly I don't recall ever having time to dine there.

 

[TheBigD]

Not sure about that for the ticket office for most of that time - the 'trad ticket office' had been very nicely restored at some point in the 1980s (poss mid 80s) and during the period I started using it regularly - from 1989, I used that (proper) ticket office on various occasions. It was an impressive room and nicely restored. You don't get much of a look at it now as it is part of the fancy restaurant that is on that side of the building - the British Library side

undated pic here but this is how I recall it in the 1990s

Booking Office, St. Pancras Station, London

This pic says date 2001 and how I recall it. It looked trad as lack of modernisation pre listed building status meant the wooden screen and small windows were never swept away and survived to be restored, as I understand it.

Booking Hall, St Pancras station, London UK

Booking Hall, St Pancras station, Euston Road, London UK

www.urban75.org

Of course not to say there was not a temp booking office by buffers at some point / as well (maybe during the restoration of the old one?)

Also in the building at the buffer stop end was a reasonably spacious Travellers Fare buffet, and where Betjemans is there was The Shires pub, run by Travellers Fare

I recall - and this is probably c1993 posting 1st class post that I had written on southbound MML train in the letter box on the side of a Royal Mail TPO carriage being loaded at St Pancras on the main area by the roadway where mail vans could get in to access the trains.

But overall the station was underused in this period as others describe

Plenty of general pics on line from this period.

The former booking hall earlier this year...

 

[Big Jumby 74]

I worked there from 1972 to 1974. At that time there were still seven platforms. One of my jobs was Station Announcer/Train Recorder in the Signal Box at the top end next to platforms 1 & 2

Your post brings back a few happy memories from 'another' time. The station in my early years on the job still represented the atmosphere of the steam age (which I really liked I will add) albeit loco's were primarily Peaks on class 1 services, but 25's were a common type under the roof as well back then. The booking office off the SW corner of platform 1 was still as it had always been and the extremely narrow sets of stairs down to the tube in the SE (platform 7) corner are things that stick out in my memory. Today's travelling public would have hated it no doubt, but it was what it was!

 

[WesternLancer]

The former booking hall earlier this year...

Thanks! Good to see that image.

I recall thinking that the alterations made to allow that use there was probably stretching the listing a bit too far and a less modified use for such a key part of the station as the booking office should have been required really, in my view.

 

[MotCO]

Reading all the replies, it is no wonder that there was space for the Eurostar terminal. However, was St Pancras chosen since it was the optimum place to site it (vis a vis access to HS1 and onward distribution of passengers), or was the only space available?

 

[Rescars]

Before privatisation, St Pancras Chambers was HQ for British Transport Hotels and Travellers-Fare. It originally opened as the Midland Grand Hotel, but the LMS converted it to offices c1935 because the cost of modernisation (like plumbing basins into each bedroom) was too great. IIRC the Chairman at the time said it was like "trying to change the face of Everest". There was no central heating duruping the BTH era, but a very large number of sealed fireplaces. Some of the offices on the third floor gave a bird's eye view of the trainshed. Limited use was made of the fourth floor and none anywhere higher because there were no fire escapes. Despite all sorts of strange partitioning, quite a lot of the Victorian charm remained, much of which has been happily restored with the advent of the HS1 era. There was, and may well still be, a gigantic uncovered water tank in the roof of the square tower. This may have been the dubious source from which 62484GlenLyon filled his kettle! There were tales that, back in the hotel era, this tank was a popular spot for bathing by pageboys and others during hot weather. - a practice no doubt discouraged by management.

The vaults of the hotel contained a coffee roasting plant which supplied roasted grounds and beans to the BTH empire. Consequently the staition sometimes smelled wonderfully of roasting coffee.

As WesternLancer notes, some cleaning of the brick and stonework had been carried out before the funds ran out. IIRC, Sir Peter Parker claimed it was the "return of the pink Pancras".

 

[edwin_m]

Pretty sure platform 1 (the shorter one on the west side) had slab track that remained in situ, though not connected to the rest of the railway, until the closure for HS1 conversion.

Not mentioned as far as I can see was the rather tackily modernised waiting room opposite the buffer stops of platforms 2 and 3.

 

[WesternLancer]

Not mentioned as far as I can see was the rather tackily modernised waiting room opposite the buffer stops of platforms 2 and 3.

well recalled! I'd forgotten that.

 

[edwin_m]

well recalled! I'd forgotten that.

I think the waiting room was next to the buffet with a connecting door but not the same room. I couldn't help thinking there might have been some magnificent Victorian stone vaulting somewhere behind the false ceiling. I think this is now Carluccios or the place next door so I should remind myself to check next time I pass through.

 

[70014IronDuke]

I have a couple questions on what St Pancras was like before HS1 was built:
...
Did it feel massively empty, such a large building for just the MML

It all depends on what you mean by "before HS1 was built"?

As others have detailed what you term "just the MML" (my bold) carries with it a whole range of meanings. (Indeed, the line was not called the MML until 'privatisation' in the 90s.)

As @62484GlenLyon explains very well, in the c 69 - 75 era, there were four passenger workings each hour in and out - 1 Luton DMU, 1 Bedford DMU, 1 Sheffield via Derby or Notts and 1 semi-fast Notts or Derby/Manchester Picc.

But from Sept 62 to April, 1966 there were possibly more trains per hour, because St Pancras was the main station for London - Manchester traffic while the WCML was being electrified south of Crewe. (at the end of that period, it was basically an hourly service)

Prior to, I think it was 1962, certainly in 1961 there was a far more eclectic mix of 'intercity' destinations, with more through trains to Leeds and through carriages to places like Halifax, plus Edinburgh in the form of The Waverley and overnight sleeper. Up to about 1960, and at holiday times there were also reliefs to Glasgow. (Until then, London to Scotland using the Midland was slower than either the ECML or the WCML, but still seen as a useable route.)

Furthermore, in steam days (ie up to Sept 62) there were more ECS workngs to Cricklewood (for servicing) and light engine movements to get locos back to Kentish Town for turning. As a kid, I wasn't able to spend any time there, but I suspect what Glen Lyon refers to as the A, B and 8 roads (below) were engine release roads - that is, the train engine of an arriving passenger would stop short of the buffers, uncouple, draw forward, and then reverse out of the station via one of these 'sidings'. This enabled the loco to be turned, coaled and watered much more quickly, rather than stand awaiting its coaching stock to leave, and then following it out.

(As I say, I never spent any time at the station in those days. Maybe a better informed reader can confirm/deny these as 'release roads'.)

Until the electrification and resignalling works of the early 1980s there were 7 platforms. No.1 platform was shorter than the others and was rarely used for anything other than a DMU on the suburban services to Luton. This platform was on the extreme left side of the station looking out from the buffer stops. It didn't survive the modernisation. There were also two sidings between Platforms 2 and 3, known as A road and B road and another siding between platforms 4 and 5 known as 8 road. Only one of the two sidings between Platforms 2 and 3 survived.

Either way, the point is that, yes, after the local services were diverted as Thameslink in the 1980s, it indeed left the area under the grand arch somewhat devoid of many train movements each hour, but if you go back in time the station was much busier than you'd have found it in, say, 1990.

 

[43096]

It all depends on what you mean by "before HS1 was built"?

As others have detailed what you term "just the MML" (my bold) carries with it a whole range of meanings. (Indeed, the line was not called the MML until 'privatisation' in the 90s.)

The route was called the Midland Main Line before privatisation, wasn’t it? Which is where the Midland Mainline TOC got the name from.

 

[TurboMan]

The opening titles for Porridge give a good idea what it was like back in the day. Porridge was first broadcast in 1974, so that must have been filmed at St Pancras in the early 70s.

 

[Andy R. A.]

The opening titles for Porridge give a good idea what it was like back in the day. Porridge was first broadcast in 1974, so that must have been filmed at St Pancras in the early 70s.

Another interesting facet of the railway at the time. The St. Pancras station 'Daily Orders' sheet would show the various reservations on outgoing services. The one time conveyance of a 'Prisoner and Escort' would appear on the reservations section for a compartment which was always marked as 'HOME OFFICE', but you knew what the real purpose was. I was never quite sure when the practice ceased in favour of road transport ? Possibly the demise of most compartment stock in favour of open areas ?

 

[WesternLancer]

I think the waiting room was next to the buffet with a connecting door but not the same room. I couldn't help thinking there might have been some magnificent Victorian stone vaulting somewhere behind the false ceiling. I think this is now Carluccios or the place next door so I should remind myself to check next time I pass through.

Yes, that is where I recall it - as you describe.

 

[Western Sunset]

I really should've spent more time at St Pancras, rather than photographing Deltics at KX.

The backstreets of St Pancras

Away from the Euston Road, the backstreets of St Pancras/King's Cross had an atmosphere all their own. Here Barlow's roof at St Pancras rises above the mean streets [1979]

www.flickr.com

 

[WesternLancer]

I really should've spent more time at St Pancras, rather than photographing Deltics at KX.

The backstreets of St Pancras

Away from the Euston Road, the backstreets of St Pancras/King's Cross had an atmosphere all their own. Here Barlow's roof at St Pancras rises above the mean streets [1979]

www.flickr.com

Your pics? superb to see those ones around St P (and some others!) - I'd forgotten with most of the roof glazing gone and replaced with solid material of some sort how gloomy it was even on a bright day, but those pics bring that all back - that and a reasonable amount of diesel exhaust hanging in the air is what I recall - even from the HST days after the Peaks had mostly gone.

It's easy to forget how much things change.

 

[Western Sunset]

Peaks were synonymous with St Pan... Living in Derby, after a day in London, it seemed one was almost home on getting back here.

Backing-in

Cl.45/1 45112 backs into one of the platforms at St Pancras, prior to working a northbound service [1979]

www.flickr.com

 

[Russel]

Another question regarding St Pancras, when the station was being rebuilt for Eurostar, where did the domestic MML trains stop, given that the trainshed would have been a building site at the time.

 

[yorksrob]

Another question regarding St Pancras, when the station was being rebuilt for Eurostar, where did the domestic MML trains stop, given that the trainshed would have been a building site at the time.

They used the domestic HS1 platforms for a short while. I remember catching an HST from them.