Staff attitude to PRIV Boxes and Dating them

[GadgetMan]

Those all sound like they could be genuine mistakes. At least the passenger bought a ticket in those cases!

I'm a bit wary of discretion, as if overused it can end up with one rule for one passenger and a different rule for another. As an example, I witnessed an RPI let off a middle-aged woman who had a ticket that was clearly invalid, and couldn't help thinking that had it been a young male with a hoodie on the same train with the same ticket, that it would have been more likely to be prosecuted.

The direction of the conversation is usually determined by the passenger's attitude as opposed to their looks (except for vulnerable people).

 

[GB]

Of course they are fare dodgers. It is just that you have turned a blind eye to it and are not doing what your employer wants you to do.

If a shop worker said you can have xxx for free or bar staff said "you can have that on the house" does that make you a thief?

 

[PTF62]

If a shop worker said you can have xxx for free or bar staff said "you can have that on the house" does that make you a thief?

It makes the shop worker or bar staff a thief if they do not have the owner's permission to give away free food or drink.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

NO! absolutely not, as an AUTHORISED PERSON of the railway I have given that person permission to travel on my train, A Fare dodger is someone who with no permission travels fraudulently

BIG difference

PTF62 you really need to sort your facts out.

Protesting a bit hard there. Guilty conscience?

I am sure that your training to be an authorised person told you that it was fine to allow any of your mates to travel free, and that you have received directions from your employer confirming that.

Are those the correct facts?

 

[221129]

It makes the shop worker or bar staff a thief if they do not have the owner's permission to give away free food or drink.

Urmmm No that is simply not true.

 

[tannedfrog]

Most of us also allow Police Officers to travel for free on production of a Warrant Card.

Interesting - is this only within their own region? Is it only BTP or normal police as well?

 

[GB]

That's not what I asked. Does a member of staff, in uniform, on shop premises, during opening hours, giving you something for free make you a thief?

Owners permission is irrelevant as you would have no genuine reason to believe otherwise.

 

[GadgetMan]

I am sure that your training to be an authorised person told you that it was fine to allow any of your mates colleagues to travel free, and that you have received directions from your employer confirming that.

Are those the correct facts?

That is absolutely correct.

 

[PTF62]

It makes the shop worker or bar staff a thief if they do not have the owner's permission to give away free food or drink.QUOTE]

Urmmm No that is simply not true.

So you own a shop, and despite your instructions that goods must be charged for, your staff give away food and drink to their mates. You don't think that your employees are stealing from you?

 

[GadgetMan]

Interesting - is this only within their own region? Is it only BTP or normal police as well?

Any police officer in a fit state to assist staff should it be required. Whether BTP or Civil police is irrelevant, they are all just as useful/helpful.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

It makes the shop worker or bar staff a thief if they do not have the owner's permission to give away free food or drink.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Protesting a but hard there. Guilty conscience?

I am sure that your training to be an authorised person told you that it was fine to allow any of your mates to travel free, and that you have received directions from your employer confirming that.

you having a laugh?

I AM an authorised person, and once again they are colleagues and not "mates" Guilty conscience my arse. you seem to have this hatred against perks of the job. this is one of them official or not, we do ****e hours deal with ****e people (obviously a deffo minority) and do we look after each other? you are damn right we do! if you think that will change you are up against thousands of staff, if you don't like it drop your damp pathetic tissue outside the doors of number 10! at least JCollins has kept a calm and good composure (like he/always does, even if i don't agree with him/her). Rail staff have been looking out for each other since the dawn of the railway, we look out for each other because no one else will, whether it be government, privatisation or Victor Meldrews like yourself, we will always fight for each other and that is something I am damn proud of! who will fight for you?

 

[tannedfrog]

Any police officer in a fit state to assist staff should it be required. Whether BTP or Civil police is irrelevant, they are all just as useful/helpful.

I recently was talking to a police officer about to start a long distance journey and suggested that she must excess her ticket at the ticket office because she had forgotten her railcard!

 

[GadgetMan]

So let me get this straight, the train company has issued instructions to its staff that if your mates get on the train, if they are employed somehow in connection to the railways, then it is fine for them to travel anywhere for free, even if they have no contractual right to travel free.

And all the railway companies have done this.

Cannot speak for ALL railway companies, the ones I have worked for are happy for us to allow colleagues to travel on there staff passes (even if issued for a different TOC).

As pointed out by AnorthernGuard. You're mixing up 'mates' with 'colleagues'.

My mates off the streets don't get a free ride, neither do my family members. They are all expected to have tickets for travel whether that be on my train or someone else's. Colleagues currently employed on the Railway on the other hand do. They are not 'mates' as the majority of them are otherwise strangers to me.

 

[PTF62]

Cannot speak to for ALL railway companies, the ones I have worked for are happy for us to allow colleagues to travel on there staff passes (even if issued for a different TOC).

So the train companies have not given permission, but it has become custom and practice to let your mates travel for free, and the management in the companies know the hassle it would cause if anyone tried to stop it.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

Cannot speak to for ALL railway companies, the ones I have worked for are happy for us to allow colleagues to travel on there staff passes (even if issued for a different TOC).

As pointed out by AnorthernGuard. You're mixing up 'mates' with 'colleagues'.

My mates off the streets don't get a free ride, neither do my family members. They are all expected to have tickets for travel whether that be on my train or someone else's. Colleagues currently employed on the Railway on the other hand do. They are not 'mates' as the majority of them are otherwise strangers to me.

Exactly GM, this again is why we have this constant tension between staff and people who say they are "enthusiasts" of the railway (which I am) but all they really do is have a deep seated hatred and jealousy of Railstaff (and JC you are NOT included in that comment)

 

[221129]

So the train companies have not given permission, but it has become custom and practice to let your mates travel for free, and the management in the companies know the hassle it would cause if anyone tried to stop it.

Look it happens. Get Over it. If you feel so passionately towards this then acctually DO something not just post on a Forum.....

 

[PTF62]

Look it happens. Get Over it. If you feel so passionately towards this then acctually DO something not just post on a Forum.....

Of course it goes on.

I am just amused at the double standards view of the people employed to collect fares, and are quite vociferous about dealing with people they see as "proper" fare dodgers, but then are perfectly happy to let their mates travel for free.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

once again none of us have ever said we let our "mates" travel free, you are a troll PTF deal with something more important like world peace or something, thats if you can get your facts right on that as you certainly can't on this issue.

 

[221129]

As has been said It is not as if they are letting their Friends travel free or even their family. They are letting collegues on who work on the railways and can be invaluble if an incident occurs.

 

[dave87016]

Wow I cant believe the amount of jealousy shown by non rail staff!!! I dont work on the railways but I do travel by rail a lot and have the utmost respect for the railway staff and I have no problem with rail staff/family/dependents travelling free. Its nice to see a " gesture" tradition that started before my time still going.

 

[221129]

Right Can We settle this now? The managers know what happens but their reluctance to do anything surely speaks for itself?

 

[GB]

Of course it goes on.

I am just amused at the double standards view of the people employed to collect fares, and are quite vociferous about dealing with people they see as "proper" fare dodgers, but then are perfectly happy to let their mates travel for free.

Troll or not, your clearly out on a warpath to purposely wind people up, otherwise why would you continue to use the word "mates" in such a manner when it has already been stated it is infact colleagues? It has also already been confirmed by one poster that the companies he worked for knew and allowed such things.

You also seem to fail to grasp the concept of "an authorised person".

 

[PTF62]

It has also already been confirmed by one poster that the companies he worked for knew and allowed such things.

There is a huge difference between being aware of something going on, and approving of something going on. It was not confirmed it was the latter rather than the former.

You also seem to fail to grasp the concept of "an authorised person".

I fully grasp the concept, but the question seems to be, are they correctly meeting the requirements of the role.

 

[exile]

once again none of us have ever said we let our "mates" travel free, you are a troll PTF deal with something more important like world peace or something, thats if you can get your facts right on that as you certainly can't on this issue.

"I agree entirely. This Safeguarded-nonsafeguarded garbage is ridiculous, if you have a priv. Put your money away and don't waste a box."

Now who said that? And how is it different to letting mates travel free ?

Let's get this clear - no-one (I hope) objects to staff getting free travel - within the rules.

I would take the same attitude to my own colleagues fiddling their time sheets or clocking in for colleagues who are still in the pub.

 

[Mr Spock]

I can't believe that this is still going on and surprised tha Anorthernguard is still getting involved after the last time.

For the record I think allowing colleagues to travel free when they are not entitled is wrong but nothing I or anyone else says will alter the attitude of the staff that allow it and therefore I can't see any point getting into an arguement about it.

I will just say though that all staff are aware of their travel entitlements when they join the railways and as for this "discretion" that gets bandied about I hardly think that is the correct word if you allow ALL staff to travel free.

Anyway just my thoughts.

One last thing for those guards that allow it - what would your reaction be if a guard from another TOC said that you would not be allowed to travel free but had to buy a ticket or use a box?

 

[Tracky]

One last thing for those guards that allow it - what would your reaction be if a guard from another TOC said that you would not be allowed to travel free but had to buy a ticket or use a box?

I virtually always buy a ticket, and if I don't I introduce myself to the guard before I board. It is just easier these days as some TOC's are tightening up and some sub-contracted revenue staff do the job to the letter.

I never charge a member of staff*. My managers are aware and respect my attitude.

* Unless they take the mick, and some do and if they take the mick with me I remember them, just like any other fare dodger.

 

[Monty]

One last thing for those guards that allow it - what would your reaction be if a guard from another TOC said that you would not be allowed to travel free but had to buy a ticket or use a box?

Then you pay up without muttering so much as a word, period.

My own personal point of view is that is that if we want to be viewed as one railway then staff should have unlimited free travel. But we don't so we just have to make the best of it. When travelling across the network I always approach the guard before boarding the train and identify myself as an off duty guard and ask if I can purchase a ticket, if they flat out refuse to sell me one on the basis that I am staff, there isn't much I can do about it.

On the otherhand when I am on duty and in charge of a train and staff approach me I am more than happy to have them on board as I know I'll have someone who'll have my back when it all goes to pot in the event of an accident. And since it's my train it's my prerogative.

People may not agree with it but and they are entitled to their own opinion, a staff member may be less inclined to assist me if I were to rub them the wrong way for the sake of a few quid. I don't think off duty staff are oblidged to help either.

 

[Mr Spock]

Then you pay up without muttering so much as a word, period.

My own personal point of view is that is that if we want to be viewed as one railway then staff should have unlimited free travel. But we don't so we just have to make the best of it. When travelling across the network I always approach the guard before boarding the train and identify myself as an off duty guard and ask if I can purchase a ticket, if they flat out refuse to sell me one on the basis that I am staff, there isn't much I can do about it.

On the otherhand when I am on duty and in charge of a train and staff approach me I am more than happy to let them have them on board as I know I'll have someone who'll have my back when it all goes to pot in the event of an accident. And since it's my train it's my prerogative.

People may not agree with it but and they are entitled to their own opinion, a staff member may be less inclined to assist me if I were to rub them the wrong way for the sake of a few quid. I don't think off duty staff are oblidged to help either.

Thats all i wanted to know its just that there could be problems with some staff allowing it and others not and some staff getting upset about it.

Anyway as I said I will not argue about the rights and wrongs of it as although I think it is wrong it is up to you what you do.

 

[yorkie]

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It makes the shop worker or bar staff a thief if they do not have the owner's permission to give away free food or drink.

But they do have that permission/authority.

So you own a shop, and despite your instructions that goods must be charged for, your staff give away food and drink to their mates. You don't think that your employees are stealing from you?

Not a fair comparison, you have been told countless times that it is colleagues, not "mates" that is being debated here. If you want to start a topic on "Staff attitude to letting mates travel free" then create a new thread if you must (though I do not think it would be constructive). That is not what is being debated here.

Anyway, I'll discuss it further with you by PM.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

"I agree entirely. This Safeguarded-nonsafeguarded garbage is ridiculous, if you have a priv. Put your money away and don't waste a box."

Now who said that? And how is it different to letting mates travel free ?

Let's get this clear - no-one (I hope) objects to staff getting free travel - within the rules.

I would take the same attitude to my own colleagues fiddling their time sheets or clocking in for colleagues who are still in the pub.

I see the point that you are trying to make, again it comes down to "colleagues"
if you have a priv and are not dependents then you are a colleague regarding dependents i take each one on its merits, manners etc etc. As i have said before i don't "expect" to get free travel however I certainly do hope for it. I always ask win lose or draw the only staff I can't abide are the ones who say no but then a week later they are on your train but then expect a free ride themselves

 

[34D]

once again none of us have ever said we let our "mates" travel free, you are a troll PTF deal with something more important like world peace or something, thats if you can get your facts right on that as you certainly can't on this issue.

Wonder what job PTF62 does?