Stagecoach East (Bedford, Cambridge, Huntingdon and Peterborough)

[Simon75]

The 72/73 has several dead journeys in the morning (journeys starting in Biggleswade, with no journeys from Bedford, so about 12 miles (according to Google maps) of dead milage, which probably hasn't helped

 

[Silver Cobra]

The 72/73 has several dead journeys in the morning (journeys starting in Biggleswade, with no journeys from Bedford, so about 12 miles (according to Google maps) of dead milage, which probably hasn't helped

Much the same with the 9A/B, where the first two buses of the day from Hitchin currently travel from Bedford to Hitchin on dead mileage. Though from 30th October these will run in passenger service from Bedford, departing at 5am (9A) and 5:30am (9B). If the 72/73 wasn't being scrapped, I imagine Stagecoach would have done the same for these routes as well.

Regarding the 72/73 situation, Biggleswade will still have a service to Bedford through Grant Palmer's 74 (which ironically was a Stagecoach East route until around 2017/18 when they cut it to focus on the 73). Though this still brings the level of service to Bedford down from the current 3 buses per hour to just 1 bus per hour, and also means the first bus to Bedford won't be until 7:47am. The biggest casualties are Moggerhanger and Willington, who from 30th October will have no bus service at all. Sandy will have no direct service to Bedford, but a journey via Herberts Travel's 188/190 to Biggleswade and then Grant Palmer's 74 to Bedford would be possible, albeit rather time-consuming.

 

[A0wen]

Much the same with the 9A/B, where the first two buses of the day from Hitchin currently travel from Bedford to Hitchin on dead mileage. Though from 30th October these will run in passenger service from Bedford, departing at 5am (9A) and 5:30am (9B). If the 72/73 wasn't being scrapped, I imagine Stagecoach would have done the same for these routes as well.

Regarding the 72/73 situation, Biggleswade will still have a service to Bedford through Grant Palmer's 74 (which ironically was a Stagecoach East route until around 2017/18 when they cut it to focus on the 73). Though this still brings the level of service to Bedford down from the current 3 buses per hour to just 1 bus per hour, and also means the first bus to Bedford won't be until 7:47am. The biggest casualties are Moggerhanger and Willington, who from 30th October will have no bus service at all. Sandy will have no direct service to Bedford, but a journey via Herberts Travel's 188/190 to Biggleswade and then Grant Palmer's 74 to Bedford would be possible, albeit rather time-consuming.

Not quite on Willington - it also has the Grant Palmer 27 https://www.grantpalmer.com/bus-services/bedford/27/

 

[Silver Cobra]

Not quite on Willington - it also has the Grant Palmer 27 https://www.grantpalmer.com/bus-services/bedford/27/

Ah, I didn't know about that. So it just leaves Moggerhanger with no bus service, unless it could somehow be worked into the 27's route (though that would heavily extend the overall journey time of the route, probably to a point of it being unfeasible).

 

[A0wen]

Ah, I didn't know about that. So it just leaves Moggerhanger with no bus service, unless it could somehow be worked into the 27's route (though that would heavily extend the overall journey time of the route, probably to a point of it being unfeasible).

The obvious thing would be to extend to Moggerhanger and Blunham - adds about 2 miles against going direct between Willington and Barford, so 10 mins tops ?

 

[RELL6L]

Tender now out for all of the affected routes…

CPCA - Local Bus Services [Tender Notice]

The Authority is seeking to award services contracts to multiple suppliers for the following 23 Bus ... A Tender Notice by Cambridgeshire & Peterborough Combined Authority.

bidstats.uk

I know time is terribly tight but this looks a very challenging exercise. For example the 30,35,66 are run as a group, not sure what the 31A and 33 are as the 31 and 33 continue (but reduced between Peterborough and Whittlesey), some of the V routes are just runs at the start and end of the day off the Busway services, I can't think what the 904A could be as the 904 survives, albeit reduced, presume the A services are to replace parts of services which only partially survive, so what is the 12A? Very pleased to see Cambridgeshire step in but - apart from Stagecoach who might want the work but probably don't have the resources - who is there? Interesting....

 

[M@verick]

Just because Bedford has schools, colleges and a hospital it doesn't follow that those fron Sandy or Biggleswade want to go there.

I have family who live just outside Biggleswade - none of their 3 children, 2 of whom are secondary age, go to school in Bedford.

For college does Bedford offer more than North Herts at Hitchin or Stevenage or even Cambridge Regional at Huntingdon.

For hospital, Bedford has A&E, but you might also get sent to Lister at Stevenage, Hinchingbrooke at Huntingdon or even Addenbrooks at Cambridge depending on your reason for admission. People won't travel by bus if they're heading to A&E.

For shopping Bedford has little to offer over Stevenage (which is a direct train ride from Sandy or Biggleswade) or Cambridge.

Just because there was demand to travel to / from Bedford 20 or 30 years ago doesn't mean that demand is still there.

The travel patterns don't have to be solely focussed on travel to Bedford, there is plenty of usage between Biggleswade and Sandy and the other communities on route. There are plenty of parents in Biggleswade who send their children to schools in Sandy. I dare say there is also a reverse flow to Biggleswade. As I pointed out the growth of Biggleswade has been huge and a large and popular retail park opened at the far edge of the town along with new warehouses and industry which have generated a large amount of employment. Stagecoach has totally failed to embrace these developments as a way of bolstering up the patronage of services. S106 was available but the company and it's Cambridge-centric management have allowed this to go elsewhere.

Yes there is a train station in Sandy and there is a train station in Biggleswade but the bus provides a much more convenient link between the two towns especially if you live at the top end of Sandy where most of the residential is sited. Many Biggleswade residents are being sent to Sandy for medical appointments as GPs in Biggleswade struggle to cope. Additionally many people get follow up hospital appointments at the Bedford hospitals. Sure there are others in the area but those in Bedford are still the main focus for many residents.

I just cannot fathom how a service operating from 5am to 9pm six days a week on a largely 30 min frequency is now not just being cut back, but cancelled completely with no effort to operate maybe a more realistic schedule for a slump in demand. The current 5.5 PVR could be easily cut back to an hourly service and 2-3 buses saved. The company simply has no interest in trying.

 

[Stan Drews]

I suspect that these service cuts (and many others across the country) are as much driven by the driver shortage, as they are by their financial viability. Slimming down the network will probably mean that they can reliably provide the services they intend to continue.

 

[danielcanning]

If Stagecoach are losing so much money running these rural services, why and how did they come up with the money to purchase Tower Transit’s East London operation?

 

[Simon75]

If Stagecoach are losing so much money running these rural services, why and how did they come up with the money to purchase Tower Transit’s East London operation?

At a guess, it's because Stagecoach have been bought out by a private equity firm, so I guess the money to purchase Lea Interchange came from that.
Like any business, they are reviewing what is making money and what isn't.

 

[gingerheid]

A local councillor has posted notes of a meeting they had with Stagecoach (area is just north of Cambridge, including part of built up area of Cambridge, which is mainly served by the guided busway).

Meeting with Stagecoach in Orchard Park

Notes This meeting took place before the announcement Stagecoach made about significant cuts to services across Cambridgeshire. There was no indication in this meeting that the cuts to services wer…

hiopcouncillors.org

That said passenger numbers on the busway are stronger so assuming they can fill anything like the 15 vacancies with some of the 17 in training (there are always dropouts) this will allow increased services. Stagecoach are not complacent about the recruitment crisis and are working really hard to fill vacancies. Hopefully service improvements will happen mid October.

By knowing what has happened since we get a better perspective on what some of the things they said actually meant. It's interesting to see that the guided busway would be getting increased but for driver shortages. (And it's even more interesting to see that they think anyone who could get a job in most places would chose to work in Cambridge for that amount of money...)

 

[Simon75]

Covid is probably the main reason why pensioners were , and are still are 'scared' to go out.
Opening windows in the autumn/winter will put people off , as the buses won't be warm

 

[johnw]

In my view, Bedford was always better managed from Northampton, than playing ’third fiddle’ to Cambridge and Peterborough.

 

[Megafuss]

If Stagecoach are losing so much money running these rural services, why and how did they come up with the money to purchase Tower Transit’s East London operation?

Stagecoach East made a profit of just under £3 million pound in the least set of published accounts.

 

[M@verick]

I suspect that these service cuts (and many others across the country) are as much driven by the driver shortage, as they are by their financial viability. Slimming down the network will probably mean that they can reliably provide the services they intend to continue.

I fully agree, yet another failure of Stagecoach to engage it's employees. Carla Stockton-Jones is obsessed with reaching diversity targets but not true engagement of the platform staff to sit them down and see why they are leaving in droves.

Depot management are so micro-managed and prescripted by the processes ring binder, that they don't take the time to interview staff leaving to find out why. Stagecoach would rather point the finger at the HGV industry than face up to the fact unhappy staff are leaving because of duties that mean they spend hours at work without getting paid, or finish shifts in the evening and are back in the next working day with the bare legal minimum of rest on a regular basis, rather than as an avoidable thing. That stems from commercial teams with no experience being reliant on the system auto generating everything to the maximum parameters possible.

 

[gingerheid]

The comments Stagecoach management made in the discussion with local councillors here were interesting.

They said it wasn't a great job because your rota could be working until midnight and then starting again at 7 the next morning.

Would take effort to organise rotas that are a bit more stable and don't include stuff like that, but maybe it would be better than losing all your staff and not being able to function as a bus operator? And if you look hard enough there's likely people with, for whatever reason, a preference for most times of day.

 

[ashkeba]

Covid is probably the main reason why pensioners were , and are still are 'scared' to go out.
Opening windows in the autumn/winter will put people off , as the buses won't be warm

Nobody enjoys travelling on underventilated overheated buses where you can't see out for steamed windows, covid or not. But the last few years have given more ways to avoid it with delivery services, some discounted for older people.

Best is to upgrade the HVAC and promise mistless windows but opening windows would help. Most passengers have coats in winter.

 

[M@verick]

The comments Stagecoach management made in the discussion with local councillors here were interesting.

They said it wasn't a great job because your rota could be working until midnight and then starting again at 7 the next morning.

Would take effort to organise rotas that are a bit more stable and don't include stuff like that, but maybe it would be better than losing all your staff and not being able to function as a bus operator? And if you look hard enough there's likely people with, for whatever reason, a preference for most times of day.

The problem there is scheduling and rotas being solely compiled by computers working to a set of parameters. Just because something is legal does not make it morally correct.

In the schedules and rotas I created, I always worked to the theory that I would never schedule a duty I wouldn't be prepared to work myself.

 

[overthewater]

Is there any chance Grant Palmer would take over 72/73?

It's far cry from the "Mars services" which used to operate all the way to Hitchin. Most local people will remember Stagecoach Bedford renamed all the country bus routes to plants in the solar system back in 2006.

 

[markymark2000]

The busway is a very expensive piece of infrastructure with a low level of usage.

The busway would be much better in some areas if it wasn't guided. Like from North Station to Milton Road and around St Ives as then local buses wouldn't have to divert around the busway and so that would speed up journey times and make the busway more useful.

Stagecoach East has failed to involve itself with the growth of the town in the last 20 years, with new housing and commercial developments being totally ignored by the company. However buses regularly sit in the marketplace on extended layovers in which they could be extending out to open up new opportunities.

Typical of Stagecoach in many areas. Sit there claiming 'no proven demand' to these places but never tried to generate demand and if there is no bus, no one knows what the demand is. What do they want, a 10k petition from residents of new developments demanding a bus? Seems that way as they have no intention of trying to get people onto buses. Been running things down for so long in so many areas.

I can. In the 'modern' bus industry one's ability to do as directed and to toe the line are required qualities, rather than technical ability to do the job. Hence why this former scheduler now resides somewhere cold and Siberian unable to find work in an industry he's been in for 18 years whilst the clueless and incompetent rise to the top.

Or graduates as these people are also known.

Too many people in the offices with safe jobs and if it doesn't work, they just jump to the next firm. There is no incentive to be good at your job or have a proven track record. Once a manger, always a manager, no matter how much you messed things up and doesn't even have to be in the same sector. Stagecoach Manchester is ran by ex Manchester Airport management (and we've all seen the mess there in recent years!)

 

[M803UYA]

Or graduates as these people are also known.

Too many people in the offices with safe jobs and if it doesn't work, they just jump to the next firm. There is no incentive to be good at your job or have a proven track record. Once a manger, always a manager, no matter how much you messed things up and doesn't even have to be in the same sector. Stagecoach Manchester is ran by ex Manchester Airport management (and we've all seen the mess there in recent years!)

Scheduling is seen as an unglamourous role, unlike operations. So graduates go into operations primarily. I have a transport management degree but worked in scheduling. I drive these days, part time thanks to mental health and a number of poor employers. Still, if anyone wants a decent scheduler who can properly plan bus workings..........

 

[Megafuss]

The busway is a very expensive piece of infrastructure with a low level of usage. I wouldn't describe it as a success. Between Trumpington and the Railway Station the northbound carriageway has been closed for most of this year, which indicates that as a thoroughfare it is more important for cycles than it is for buses!

Pedantry corner Whippet still runs the U on the busway between the Railway Station and Royal Papworth (southbound only), with financial support from the University.

Expensive, yes. Low level of use? Nope. Absolutely not. At least before Covid.

Stagecoach were planning a massive expansion of the Busway before Covid. Hence the tri-axels.

 

[gingerheid]

Yes. It really pains me every time I have to say this, because it's completely illogical.

The guided busway was only a failure in construction, and it's tragic that the contractor brought guideways into disrepute in this way. In operation its success has been as absolute as it is illogical and inexplicable.

Even after covid, the guided buses are often packed out and the frequency of them is only being held back by driver shortages. And if you look at a long term view either to pre or post covid; the best any bus route in Cambridge that isn't the guided busway achieved over the last 15 or whatever years was to stay the same. But for the guided busway the improved frequencies and service levels even post covid are astronomical.

I was against it when it was being built, but having seen it in operation (and seeing it in operation going past my window as I type!) I can only support the building of more. The Cambourne guideway is a no brainer, and as reopening the Mildenhall line isn't even on the radar a guideway to Newmarket and at least Red Lodge should also be a no brainer. When it comes to public transport who would rather be in Red Lodge or the longer established Cambourne rather than more recent and only partly built Northstowe?

I'm inclined to also support building one to Haverhill. If you compare the current guideway (and especially the plans that got interrupted by Covid) to what a railway re-opened on the same date would have been (it would probably still be running a two carriage train once an hour, because the railway has immense patience when it comes to waiting for people to get fed up and for demand to reduce to meet capacity) as opposed to what a railway could have been only in our integrated transport dreams or abroad, then it's clearly better.

 

[paulmch]

Yes. It really pains me every time I have to say this, because it's completely illogical. The guided busway was only a failure in construction, and it's tragic that the contractor brought guideways into disrepute in this way. In operation its success has been as absolute as it is illogical and inexplicable. Even after covid, the guided buses are often packed out and the frequency of them is only being held back by driver shortages. And if you look at a long term view either to pre or post covid; the best any bus route in Cambridge that isn't the guided busway achieved over the last 15 or whatever years was to stay the same. But for the guided busway the improved frequencies and service levels even post covid are astronomical. I was against it when it was being built, but having seen it in operation (and seeing it in operation going past my window as I type!) I can only support the building of more. The Cambourne guideway is a no brainer, and as reopening the Mildenhall line isn't even on the radar a guideway to Newmarket and at least Red Lodge should also be a no brainer. When it comes to public transport who would rather be in Red Lodge or the longer established Cambourne rather than more recent and only partly built Northstowe? I'm inclined to also support building one to Haverhill. If you compare the current guideway (and especially the plans that got interrupted by Covid) to what a railway re-opened on the same date would have been (it would probably still be running a two carriage train once an hour, because the railway has immense patience when it comes to waiting for people to get fed up and for demand to reduce to meet capacity) as opposed to what a railway could have been only in our integrated transport dreams or abroad, then it's clearly better.

100% this - the evidence that the busway has been successful is staring us right in the face. Just look at the state of almost all the other out of city routes post-October.

I was travelling on a rail replacement bus today and saw what I presume are the new electric buses for the Citi2 at Ely outstation. The changes to the 2/9 are a bit of a mixed bag for those living in Milton. On one hand the previous route directly into Cambridge is now a decent walk away at the P&R site, but on the other hand there's now going to be a 7-day service running every 20 minutes, and over a much longer period during the day. Whether that's enough to offset the new circuitous routing via Chesterton and the loss of the direct link to Waterbeach and beyond remains to be seen!

 

[RELL6L]

Some action from Stephensons - but only part of one route....

Stephensons to take on Cambridge to Newmarket route - routeone

Stephensons of Essex will take on a former Stagecoach East route between Cambridge and Newmarket after the group withdraws on 30 October.

www.route-one.net

Stephensons of Essex has registered a partial replacement for one of the 18 services that Stagecoach East is to withdraw from late October. The Essex-based independent will take over the section of route 12 between Cambridge and Newmarket from 31 October.

Managing Director Bill Hiron says that the development came about “following a review of usage, and discussions with the relevant local authorities.” It follows claims by Stagecoach East that the 18 services it is to remove collectively lose an average of £12 per passenger journey, and up to £80 per trip in the worst case. 

Stephensons will run service 12 between the two locations to broadly the current route and frequency, although some details remain under discussion with Suffolk County Council and the Cambridgeshire and Peterborough Combined Authority. It will be operated “largely commercially,” Mr Hiron has told routeone. 

He adds that Stephensons is “pleased to be able to step in” and that it recognises the importance of the fast link to the communities it serves. It will run from the operator’s Haverhill depot “at least initially.” 

Route 12 will represent Stephensons’ first substantive local bus service into Cambridge or Cambridgeshire, although one of its existing services dips briefly into the county and the operator has undertaken private contracts into the university city previously. It already serves Newmarket in Suffolk.

 

[Megafuss]

Whoever/whatever runs the 11 from Burwell to Cambridge, I hope they consider operating a couple of AM and a couple of PM trips via CRC as a LOT of students travel from the villages to the College

 

[camflyer]

Cambridge to Newmarket was always one of the most commercially viable of the axed routes so not too surprising that it was the first to be saved but a shame that will be no onward services to Bury and Ely

 

[markymark2000]

Cambridge to Newmarket was always one of the most commercially viable of the axed routes so not too surprising that it was the first to be saved but a shame that will be no onward services to Bury and Ely

I am a bit surprised that Stephensons don't extend to Bury as that would link up more of their network. Cambridge to Bury could be done every 1h 10 with 2 buses or hourly with 3 buses (and sufficient breaks for drivers to have a meal break and so save on shunt vehicles).

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I am a bit surprised that Stephensons don't extend to Bury as that would link up more of their network. Cambridge to Bury could be done every 1h 10 with 2 buses or hourly with 3 buses (and sufficient breaks for drivers to have a meal break and so save on shunt vehicles).

Might it be that whilst the Western part is marginal, the Bury is simply more of a dead duck? If they have two buses on the 12 , there's enough time for drivers to have breaks - in fact, they're really only about 65% productive.

 

[markymark2000]

Might it be that whilst the Western part is marginal, the Bury is simply more of a dead duck? If they have two buses on the 12 , there's enough time for drivers to have breaks - in fact, they're really only about 65% productive.

True, I was basing it purely off the fact it links their existing areas, I'll be honest, I don't know the area well enough for judging the viability but it looks like it could be a good corridor if it was given some love. I guess it depends on what they want to do with the 12 in terms of covering the rest of the town of Newmarket.