Stagecoach East (Bedford, Cambridge, Huntingdon and Peterborough)

[hdennis13]

The 4 doesn't work as it is. It serves too much of Cambourne and serves none of it well. It should be separate services. Whether financials work out for that is another issue but no service which serves this many areas will do very well. In Great Cambourne for example you get on the bus there and 25 minutes later you still aren't out of Cambourne. It's really not very good.

I agree. The 4 runs twice an hour and it would make sense to serve upper cambourne hourly and lower/west cambourne hourly, which would free up the resources they require

 

[Magdalia]

While Cambridge may be losing services

I agree that Stagecoach was misleading about this and a proper consultation is needed. It's concerning how the mayor announces schemes to improve buses, yet Stagecoach is still intent on reducing services.

The elephant in the room for Cambridge bus services is availability of drivers. Stagecoach are trying to maximise profits through best use of their restricted complement of drivers.

*For the 905 they're asking for views on whether it should only run to Cambridge at peak times

*For the P&R it's curtailing the route to the railway station

*The 4 asks for "areas that we can serve or stop serving within the current resource".

*The 8 suggests a merge with the 8A and extension to Addenbrookes.

Thanks for this summary. I don't do questionnaires where it isn't possible to see all of the questions before answering question 1.

Regarding St Neots-Cambridge, is there enough traffic to justify both of Stagecoach's 905 and Whippet's 18?

For the Babraham Park and Ride, I suspect what they're looking at is missing out the railway station and going along Hills Road between Brooklands Avenue and the Botanic Gardens, like the 13 does.

I can see the attraction of running the 8/8A through to the Cambridge Biomedical Campus* but it will probably have a disastrous impact on reliability and punctuality north of the river. I remember the days when the 7 and 8 were a combined route Sawston-Cottenham: it was a nightmare then and congestion has got much worse since.

Appreciate East West rail is coming

What is coming much more quickly is Cambridge South. For the first time in history it will be possible to get from one side of Cambridge to the other in 10 minutes, just by getting on a train. This has the potential to generate transformative change in travel patterns but I'm not optimistic that either the Cambridge and Peterborough Combined Authority** or the operators can grasp the opportunity.

 

[higthomas]

I can see the attraction of running the 8/8A through to the CBC but it will probably have a disastrous impact on reliability and punctuality north of the river. I remember the days when the 7 and 8 were a combined route Sawston-Cottenham: it was a nightmare then and congestion has got much worse since.

Yeah, it's good for me but terrible for reliability I'd expect. I'd have thought they be better leaving the 8 as is and, as I mentioned upthread, doubling the frequency of the A as far as Longstanton, and i guess having some/all of them stop on Histon road again. Then at least they can use the busway past the station which will help reliability somewhat, and gives orchard park a more consistent place to board.

Yeah, it's good for me but terrible for reliability I'd expect. I'd have thought they be better leaving the 8 as is and, as I mentioned upthread, doubling the frequency of the A as far as Longstanton to replace the 8A, and i guess having some/all of them stop on Histon road again. Then at least they can use the busway past the station which will help reliability somewhat, and gives orchard park a more consistent place to board.

 

[markymark2000]

The elephant in the room for Cambridge bus services is availability of drivers. Stagecoach are trying to maximise profits through best use of their restricted complement of drivers.

Stagecoach East MD Darren Roe did ask, at the recent market engagement, for the combined authorities views on agency drivers. Link below goes to the Combined Authoritys Youtube. The question is asked at 41:02, the link is timestamped though so hopefully that will help some people.

 

[ac6000cw]

For the Babraham Park and Ride, I suspect what they're looking at is missing out the railway station and going along Hills Road between Brooklands Avenue and the Botanic Gardens, like the 13 does.

That's not what the survey question implies:

6. If the Babraham Park & Ride route were to no longer serve Cambridge City Centre, but instead offer more frequent connections to the Biomedical Campus and Rail Station, how would this change your usage of the service?​

I can sort of understand this idea, as the P&R car park acts as satellite (and free) parking for the Addenbrookes/Biomedical Campus, and as it's the only P&R service that serves the main railway station, doubtless also serves as free parking for some rail passengers (I use it for this occasionally).

 

[RELL6L]

I can't speak for the 8 at all, for the 4 it would seem sensible to perhaps alternate which parts of Cambourne are served as it looks tortuous making some journeys.

I don't understand the 905 at all, is it a serious proposal to terminate at St Neots from the Bedford end outside the peaks? I actually did the survey here and it just said only run into Cambridge in the peaks, it didn't say where it would terminate at other times. Could it be at a P&R on the edge of the city? The Whippet 18 from St Neots isn't an alternative or competition, it takes a much longer route (30 mins more). The railway is many years off. I've always thought the 905/X5 was pretty well used. And a curtailment of the 905 won't help driver resource at Cambridge - its run entirely from Bedford.

 

[ac6000cw]

I don't understand the 905 at all, is it a serious proposal to terminate at St Neots from the Bedford end outside the peaks? I actually did the survey here and it just said only run into Cambridge in the peaks, it didn't say where it would terminate at other times. Could it be at a P&R on the edge of the city?

Madingley Road P&R is the obvious place, as there are onward services from there into the city and it's across the road from the large High Cross/West Cambridge site (from an employment point-of-view). Another thought is carrying on down the M11 from there to terminate at Trumpington P&R, which provides onward direct services to Addenbrookes/Biomedical Campus. Or skip Madingley Road P&R and run along the A14 to terminate at Cambridge North station. Or is that too much like integrated transport thinking?

 

[Magdalia]

That's not what the survey question implies:

I can sort of understand this idea, as the P&R car park acts as satellite (and free) parking for the Addenbrookes/Biomedical Campus, and as it's the only P&R service that serves the main railway station, doubtless also serves as free parking for some rail passengers (I use it for this occasionally).

Thanks. I wonder what City Centre retailers think of that.

In my experience the number of people just going between the Park and Ride and the Addenbrookes bus station is increasing.

 

[ac6000cw]

In my experience the number of people just going between the Park and Ride and the Addenbrookes bus station is increasing.

I agree - there is often a fair turnover of passengers at the Addenbrookes bus station stop.

I wonder if there are significant numbers of rail passengers using Trumpington P&R for parking and then the guided busway services to get to Cambridge station.

 

[hdennis13]

Relating to addenbrookes, when I travel on the citi 7, there is always a long queue at addenbrookes bus station for buses to cambridge rail and city centre. Which shows there is demand for the addenbrookes-rail-city centre route.

 

[Magdalia]

I wonder if there are significant numbers of rail passengers using Trumpington P&R for parking and then the guided busway services to get to Cambridge station.

Route R between Trumpington and the Rail Station via the busway (re)starting last month suggests yes.

That may change again when Cambridge South opens next year.

 

[Edvid]

A new route (LAX) between Luton bus station and the Airport is planned to start on 24 June, running hourly Mon-Sat.

Rather than compete with the Arriva A, it'll take the secondary route via Wigmore - the previous gap between the 81 & 99 pre-merge - and provide a combined 2bph frequency with the Bedford-half of the MK1. Gaps between those services are optimised for journeys from the airport as the recently-rerouted Arriva 100 adds another 2bph (3bp2h Sat) in the opposite direction only.

 

[Edvid]

Bedford-based routes will be affected by driver strike action on these dates:

9-12 July, 19-22 July, 2 August, 5 August

Darren Roe, Managing Director of Stagecoach East, said: "We are disappointed that our pay offer has been rejected by the Bedford driving team.

“We believe the industrial action called by Unite Union is unnecessary, as the offer was for a 15.14% increase over 2 years with 11.16% in the first year, off the back of an 8.8% award previously and improved overtime enhancements payments.

"We are committed to offering good pay packages for our people and remain open for talks with Unite. However, at the same time we have to think about the future of the bus network and the implications that higher pay demands have on the cost and scope of the services we offer the local community.

"We're sorry that our passengers will be inconvenienced by unnecessary strike action. The planned strike action by Unite now means that services will be disrupted on:

Tuesday 9th July - Friday 12th July 2024

Friday 19th July - Monday 22nd July 2024

Friday 2nd August 2024

Monday 5th August 2024

“The industrial action has been arranged to coincide with the Bedford River Festival weekend event. We advise customers to allow additional time for their journeys and we are sorry for any inconvenience that is caused.

“The 905 service will also be affected, but remaining services in Cambridge, Peterborough and the Busway will be unaffected.

"More information about the services available will be published on our website stagecoachbus.com."

 

[Silver Cobra]

Not good to hear. Hopefully East's management can come up with a more acceptable offer for the Bedford drivers soon, to minimize the industrial action.

I have to wonder how this will affect services. Will it be simply reduced frequency on all routes, or will it be something like a Sunday service on the listed dates (i.e. only running core services within Bedford town and the X5/905; no services like the 9A/B/C/D or the 41 running)?

**EDIT: I just heard on BBC Three Counties Radio that the strike has been suspended following the drivers receiving an improved offer. That's a relief, for now.

 

[Haywain]

**EDIT: I just heard on BBC Three Counties Radio that the strike has been suspended following the drivers receiving an improved offer. That's a relief, for now.

From the Unite website:

Industrial action by bus drivers in Bedfordshire has been suspended following an improved offer from the employer, Unite the union announced today (4 July).

Over 140 drivers at Cambus were due to walk out on 9-13 July and additional dates in July and August over their poor pay compared to other drivers in the region.

Following a new and improved offer from Cambus, a subsidiary of Stagecoach, Unite has paused the industrial action as a goodwill gesture.

Unite regional officer Mark Plumb said:

“I’m pleased that Cambus have seen sense and made an improved pay offer for our members. This new offer will now be voted on by members in a ballot and, as a goodwill gesture, the planned strike action next week will now be paused.”

Mod note: link required

 

[higthomas]

I've kind of mentioned it here before, but does anyone know why the Busway route A isn't more frequent?
Tonight I just watched about 10 people be denied boarding at Jesus Lane due to a full bus, something which is a frequent occurrence at various times of day in both directions.

I've never known another route get full that often, especially not one that's so relatively infrequent. Surely it's highly profitable and Stagecoach should want to grow that, possibly in preference to other routes in Cambridgeshire? (I know they're not massively flush with drivers, but they cut loads of routes last year so perhaps aren't as short as they were?)

 

[Edvid]

On 1 August some tendered Bedfordshire routes will be transferred from Grant Palmer.

Stagecoach will operate the 25, 28 and 28A (Mon-Sat); the 22 (Mon/Wed/Fri), 27A and 27C (Mon-Fri) will be further subcontracted to A2B Travel (Stagecoach ticketing arrangements will apply nonetheless). As far as I can tell the 22A and 28E will simply be withdrawn.

 

[cnjb8]

On 1 August some tendered Bedfordshire routes will be transferred from Grant Palmer.

Stagecoach will operate the 25, 28 and 28A (Mon-Sat); the 22 (Mon/Wed/Fri), 27A and 27C (Mon-Fri) will be further subcontracted to A2B Travel (Stagecoach ticketing arrangements will apply nonetheless). As far as I can tell the 22A and 28E will simply be withdrawn.

Rumored some E200s will come down from Mansfield for these routes

 

[Magdalia]

I've kind of mentioned it here before, but does anyone know why the Busway route A isn't more frequent?
Tonight I just watched about 10 people be denied boarding at Jesus Lane due to a full bus, something which is a frequent occurrence at various times of day in both directions.

I've never known another route get full that often, especially not one that's so relatively infrequent. Surely it's highly profitable and Stagecoach should want to grow that, possibly in preference to other routes in Cambridgeshire? (I know they're not massively flush with drivers, but they cut loads of routes last year so perhaps aren't as short as they were?)

I think that you have probably answered your own question.

The big route cuts were actually nearly 2 years ago. Driver recruitment and retention won't have got any easier since.

Stagecoach frequently fiddle with the Busway timetable to maximise revenue from the existing capacity. They made changes in the spring, to coincide with the reopening of the closed section between Trumpington and the main railway station, but then had to make more major changes that were implemented in May. This included reinstating route R between Trumpington and the main railway station, running most of the day on Monday-Friday. This increases capacity on route A where and when it is most needed. Pressure on route A on the north side of Cambridge has been reduced by cutting out most of the stops in Histon Road.

 

[CBlue]

Rumored some E200s will come down from Mansfield for these routes

Correct- see here https://x.com/skmpub/status/1814293529285255289?t=dPsIvoLsvIpPKskWxQYwzQ&s=19


A planned increase in vehicle requirement with Stagecoach East at Bedford will see Enviro 200s 37199, 37002/03/05 transfer from Stagecoach Eat Midlands at Mansfield. They will be replaced at Mansfield with Enviro 400s 10042-45 from Stagecoach Manchester.

I think that you have probably answered your own question.

The big route cuts were actually nearly 2 years ago. Driver recruitment and retention won't have got any easier since.

Stagecoach frequently fiddle with the Busway timetable to maximise revenue from the existing capacity. They made changes in the spring, to coincide with the reopening of the closed section between Trumpington and the main railway station, but then had to make more major changes that were implemented in May. This included reinstating route R between Trumpington and the main railway station, running most of the day on Monday-Friday. This increases capacity on route A where and when it is most needed. Pressure on route A on the north side of Cambridge has been reduced by cutting out most of the stops in Histon Road.

Driver retention in a place like Cambridge was difficult before the silicon fen effect and has gotten even more so recently. Stagecoach can't offer competitive wages compared to other employers, especially for the unsociable shifts they expect you to do!

 

[Edvid]

Two Mon-Fri services from Bedford (0645/0745, on the MK1*) have been altered to start at Luton Airport (0830/0940) [on 2 April 2024], which means there was a three-hour gap for those travelling from the Central Beds villages/towns to Luton at that time of day. [...]

[* 0700/0805 during school holidays]

It's happened again! Whatever the issue is - a mistake in duty compilation was suggested last time - those weekday journeys from Bedford to the airport are basically not operational for the next 3 weeks (and presumably the rest of the summer holiday too).

 

[paulmch]

Looks as if a big round of service changes (more accurately service cuts if the last few years are anything to go by) have been loaded for September. Most of the Cambridge city routes are included plus the busway, 2 P&R routes and the remaining longer distance routes.

 

[Edvid]

On 1 August some tendered Bedfordshire routes will be transferred from Grant Palmer.

Stagecoach will operate the 25 [...]

Confusingly, Grant Palmer will continue to run a limited route 25 service (Mon-Fri) from the same date. Some buses are even timetabled (see links below) to leave Bedford bus station simultaneously with Stagecoach East buses. From the same stop, no less...

GP 25 / SE 25

-----[automerge on 26 July 2024]-----

Looks as if a big round of service changes (more accurately service cuts if the last few years are anything to go by) have been loaded for September. Most of the Cambridge city routes are included plus the busway, 2 P&R routes and the remaining longer distance routes.

September changes summary

Cambridge routes (link to new timetables) - the changes are mostly timetable changes or BSIP enhancements. Biggest changes listed below:
* Mon-Sat, route 4 daytime frequency will be enhanced from 30 to 20 mins.
* Mon-Fri, busway routes H & R will be replaced by extra A & B services.
* Mon-Fri, route PR3's 10-min frequency will continue for another half-hour or so into the evening. However, it also appears that all intermediate stops bar Nuffield Hospital will only be served from 1100 to 1500 (and not at all on weekends or public holidays).^

Peterborough routes - no new timetables yet but route 4 will benefit from BSIP enhancements (Mon-Sun), as will routes 5A / 31 / 904 (Mon-Sat).

Long-distance Bedford routes - again, no new timetables yet. Route 905 timings will be lengthened but I don't think (bar perhaps the odd example) there will be any timetabled St Neots curtailments, and the X5 will revert to an hourly off-peak frequency (except for Bedford-Milton Keynes shorts on Saturday, which will remain half-hourly).

[^ On Monday to Friday from 11:00 to 15:00 Trumpington Park & Ride will observe all stops. Before 11:00 and after 15:00, and at weekends, to ensure the service remains rapid for commuters and shoppers into the city, with challenging traffic conditions, we cannot observe these extra stops.]

 

[markymark2000]

Long-distance Bedford routes - again, no new timetables yet. Route 905 timings will be lengthened but there won't be any timetabled St Neots curtailments, and the X5 will revert to an hourly off-peak frequency (except for Bedford-Milton Keynes shorts on Saturday, which will remain half-hourly).

How many times are they going to change the X5? Every few months it's changed. It will be cut soon as people will stop using it because it's unstable. Really feels like Stagecoach East are doing their upmost to kill off the X5.

 

[riceuten]

How many times are they going to change the X5? Every few months it's changed. It will be cut soon as people will stop using it because it's unstable. Really feels like Stagecoach East are doing their upmost to kill off the X5.

I think you are ascribing a level of forward planning and forethought that Stagecoach East do not possess.

 

[overthewater]

Surely this proves Cambridge council has failed to combat the traffic levels and it also highlights Stagecoach failed to convince car drivers to make the switch. Or is it out of town car drivers that are causing the congestion?

 

[Megafuss]

Surly this proves Cambridge council has failed to combat the traffic levels and it also highlights Stagecoach failer to convince car drivers to make the switch. Or is it out of town car drivers that are causing the congestion?

The road network certainly does not help. But Stagecoach have made some quite frankly ludicrous decisions themselves.

You just have to look at the splitting of the X5 and subsequent changes to related routes such as the Citi 4. What on earth they were doing with the Haverhill corridor and that short lived local service and the constant tinkering of the Busway services.

Bring back Andy Campbell!

 

[paulmch]

Surly this proves Cambridge council has failed to combat the traffic levels and it also highlights Stagecoach failer to convince car drivers to make the switch. Or is it out of town car drivers that are causing the congestion?

Yes to all three!

 

[Magdalia]

Cambridge routes (link to new timetables) - the changes are mostly timetable changes or BSIP enhancements.

Thanks for the link. Is BSIP Bus Service Improvement Payment?

I think you are ascribing a level of forward planning and forethought that Stagecoach East do not possess.

The Busway will be on its 4th different timetable of 2024, with 4 months still to go.

Surely this proves Cambridge council has failed to combat the traffic levels and it also highlights Stagecoach failed to convince car drivers to make the switch. Or is it out of town car drivers that are causing the congestion?

Transport matters are the Cambridge and Peterborough Combined Authority.

Congestion in Cambridge has three main causes:

• School traffic - congestion is nowhere near as bad during school holidays
• Roadworks - Cambridge is (almost) all single carriageway roads so nearly all roadworks involve temporary traffic lights
• Weather - cyclists leave their bikes at home and get in their cars when it rains

 

[Teds]

Yes to all three!

Local governement specifically around transport is a mess. The highway authority is the county council. The combined authority has responsibility for buses - arranges and pays for tendered services - and there is a third organisation, the Greater Cambridge Parnership which comprised the two distirct councils and the county council with, I think, some representation from business and the universities. They also have government money to spend on infrastructure. They proposed a road charging scheme which caused uproar. The politicians backed down but no one has any good ideas which are affordable. The most strongly supported is light rail which is unaffordable and would cause absolute chaos while it was being built. The previous combined authority mayor proposed an underground system but the authority did not have a clear idea of what they wanted and in my personal opinion, they wanted nothing to happen at all. Cars and their drivers could continue to cause chaos every day - and so they do.