Stagecoach Merseyside Cheshire and South Lancashire

[markymark2000]

I notice that the current journey time is 33 minutes, which is presumably why the frequency is reducing (although 45 minutes might be more friendly). Presumably the S106 funding is paying for the second bus and driver?

What was the journey time when it operated half-hourly? Or if over 30 minutes, did it interwork or were the buses idle for nearly half an hour? My last paper timetable is dated before the current service pattern, and I can't find anything useful at a quick look on archive.org - or was the service restructured at the same time? Journey times just over a suitable pattern must be a nightmare for schedulers, be that 17 minutes, 33 minutes or 65 minutes.

Lets not forget that a route that might have been commercial per-S106 funding (and pre-Covid) may not be now with increased costs, and may have already been trimmed had S106 funding not been available to prop it up?

Presumably every 40 minutes is the commercial service level, i.e. one bus, one driver, but doubled costs aren't? Otherwise, not sure I understand your comment that current management only want funding.

The 6 is part of an interworking loop with the Eport 7 and the Chester 2. It used to be something like the bus would do a 2 to Eport, a few trips on the 6 and 7 then return as a 2 to Chester as the drivers all have to get back to Chester for their breaks. I can't find the timetable to show exactly how it worked but it all interworked happily even when the 6 was half hourly. The route will be busier now than it was pre Covid, as I say, 450+ houses are now occupied minutes from the route. The route can also be done quicker but of course there are all of the normal variables. The 12:40 trip today left 5 minutes late, got back to the bus station on time and that was on an E300 (which can struggle on some of the tighter estates such as Parklands).

The fact Stagecoach has stated that they are still negotiating with the council over service provision, to me, suggests that they have reduced it more than necessary in a bid to get funding. If the council stepped away and said no funding is available and it was forced to run fully commercially, it would likely end up half hourly.

 

[gray1404]

Read the Lancashire update, is it true that the X2 Preston to Southport and Liverpool will be restored to a half hourly frequency in the coming months?

Where did you hear this?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

The 6 is part of an interworking loop with the Eport 7 and the Chester 2. It used to be something like the bus would do a 2 to Eport, a few trips on the 6 and 7 then return as a 2 to Chester as the drivers all have to get back to Chester for their breaks. I can't find the timetable to show exactly how it worked but it all interworked happily even when the 6 was half hourly. The route will be busier now than it was pre Covid, as I say, 450+ houses are now occupied minutes from the route. The route can also be done quicker but of course there are all of the normal variables. The 12:40 trip today left 5 minutes late, got back to the bus station on time and that was on an E300 (which can struggle on some of the tighter estates such as Parklands).

The fact Stagecoach has stated that they are still negotiating with the council over service provision, to me, suggests that they have reduced it more than necessary in a bid to get funding. If the council stepped away and said no funding is available and it was forced to run fully commercially, it would likely end up half hourly.

As @duncombec states, it may well be that the numbers are simply not there post Covid, and that what additional trade has been generated by 450 large family homes with garages and double driveways is outweighed by the drop in the many more homes en route?

Unless you have any facts to support your view?

 

[Old Yard Dog]

5 Chester - Farndon - Wrexham

Does anybody know how reliability & timekeeping has been affected by the year-long closure of the B5130 Sandy Lane, Dee Banks and Chester Road in Huntington (Chester)?

 

[markymark2000]

5 Chester - Farndon - Wrexham

Does anybody know how reliability & timekeeping has been affected by the year-long closure of the B5130 Sandy Lane, Dee Banks and Chester Road in Huntington (Chester)?

It's hit and miss, sometimes it's having minimal effect (the service has a little bit of padding anyway), other times it's taking an extra 10-15 minutes per trip.

 

[Old Yard Dog]

The 6 is part of an interworking loop with the Eport 7 and the Chester 2. It used to be something like the bus would do a 2 to Eport, a few trips on the 6 and 7 then return as a 2 to Chester as the drivers all have to get back to Chester for their breaks. I can't find the timetable to show exactly how it worked but it all interworked happily even when the 6 was half hourly. The route will be busier now than it was pre Covid, as I say, 450+ houses are now occupied minutes from the route. The route can also be done quicker but of course there are all of the normal variables. The 12:40 trip today left 5 minutes late, got back to the bus station on time and that was on an E300 (which can struggle on some of the tighter estates such as Parklands).

The fact Stagecoach has stated that they are still negotiating with the council over service provision, to me, suggests that they have reduced it more than necessary in a bid to get funding. If the council stepped away and said no funding is available and it was forced to run fully commercially, it would likely end up half hourly.

The 6 used to be a through working to Stanney Grange estate but, for some reason, didn't continue into Cheshire Oaks. The route was then split with the eastern half being picked up by buses from Ellesmere Port to Mold via Cheshire Oaks.

 

[northwichcat]

Improvements due to new funding

5 Chester – Huntington – Wrexham:

• New Friday and Saturday late evening service connecting Chester with Huntington, Farndon, and Holt.
• Supported by funding from HM Government in partnership with Cheshire West & Chester Council.

7 Chester – Vicars Cross – Chester

• Increased frequency to every 30 minutes (Monday to Saturday daytimes).
• Funding from HM Government and partnership with Cheshire West & Chester Council.
• Service 8A will be replaced by service 9. (see below). The evening and Sunday service 8 will continue to operate unchanged.

8A Chester – Vicars Cross – Pipers Ash – Chester

• Discontinued, replaced by improved service 7 and new service 9.

9 Chester – Pipers Ash – Chester

• New service linking Chester with Pipers Ash every 30 minutes (Monday to Saturday daytimes).
• Funded by HM Government and in partnership with Cheshire West & Chester Council.
• Service 9 will operate from Chester Bus Interchange along Hoole Road, Canadian Avenue, Pipers Ash estate, then back via Hoole Lane and Boughton to Chester Bus Interchange. Evening and Sunday buses will continue to operate unchanged as service 8.

26 Guilden Sutton – Chester – Ellesmere Port:

• Introduction of a new Saturday service, funded by HM Government and in partnership with Cheshire West & Chester Council.

However,

6 Ellesmere Port – Great Sutton – Ellesmere Port:

• Reduced frequency to every 40 minutes (Monday to Saturday daytimes) due to funding reductions.
• Ongoing collaboration with Cheshire West & Chester Council and developers for future enhancements.

ServiceUpdatesArticle

www.stagecoachbus.com

 

[SeanM1997]

ServiceUpdatesArticle

www.stagecoachbus.com

On Tuesday 7th May 2024 the New Crewe Bus Station will open. From Tuesday 7th May, service 84 will then serve the new bus station using stand 5 for all inbound/outbound journeys.

It'll be interesting if the new bus station improves the perception of bus travel in Crewe and South Cheshire - Cheshire East has one of the lowest bus usage in the UK and Crewe Bus Station was previously a poor experience for customers. Hopefully the new bus station will encourage stablisation and then growth of the network

 

[northwichcat]

It'll be interesting if the new bus station improves the perception of bus travel in Crewe and South Cheshire - Cheshire East has one of the lowest bus usage in the UK and Crewe Bus Station was previously a poor experience for customers. Hopefully the new bus station will encourage stablisation and then growth of the network

When Crewe, Macclesfield and Wilmslow all have excellent rail services in relation to the size of the towns, it doesn't help bus usage. Hasn't Wilmslow lost bus services to Stockport, East Didsbury and Manchester in recent years, while retaining faster trains to each of those places?

Although, at the other end of the spectrum Middlewich relies on buses alone. And the 84/84X can't be doing that badly.

 

[SeanM1997]

When Crewe, Macclesfield and Wilmslow all have excellent rail services in relation to the size of the towns, it doesn't help bus usage. Hasn't Wilmslow lost bus services to Stockport, East Didsbury and Manchester in recent years, while retaining faster trains to each of those places?

Although, at the other end of the spectrum Middlewich relies on buses alone. And the 84/84X can't be doing that badly.

Wilmslow lost its northbound links many years ago. Hopefully with TfGM Tranche 3 now awarded, Cheshire East Council can work with TfGM to extend the 42B and 42C to Wilmslow as they terminate at Woodford and Handforth Dean respectively so could use Wilmslow to have a major town at the end of the routes to boost connectivity and increase patronage

Middlewich still only has an hourly 37 (Crewe - Northwich) and every 90 minutes 42 (Crewe - Middlewich). Since the town doesn't have a railway station, its clear why the 37 was half hourly until c.2018 on the Winsford-Sandbach section... I doubt that will return but you would have thought Middlewich could sustain a higher provision than currently being offered

I suspect the 84/84X corridor has 1 bus too many. Its been a year of 4 buses an hour and more frequent Sunday services on the core section and still D&G and Stagecoach are competing with each other. Whether one will jump is yet to be seen but the new bus station will be needed for both companies to boost perception to get to a profitable level

 

[Simon75]

The 378 Stockport to Grove Lane used to run to Wilmslow (even before deregulation)

 

[SeanM1997]

From 7th June 2024 - Stagecoach to operate two new services in Chester on a Friday and Saturday evening:

51E Chester Interchange - Weston Grove Shops

51E - Chester Interchange, Stand E - Weston Grove, Shops

Stagecoach Merseyside and South Lancashire

bustimes.org

Hourly at 2000, 2100, 2200 and 2300

53E Chester Interchange - Kingsway, Coniston Road Shops

53E - Chester Interchange, Stand B - Kingsway, Coniston Road Shops

Stagecoach Merseyside and South Lancashire

bustimes.org

Hourly at 2030, 2130, 2230 and 2330

 

[northwichcat]

The 378 Stockport to Grove Lane used to run to Wilmslow (even before deregulation)

It's only since D&G have had the 88 that Wilmslow lost it's northbound links. I remember they initially registed a part replacement for the 378 - going from Wilmslow station to Handforth Dean, and that was after they opened the Wincham outstation from where they were running the 88 and 300.

I seem to recall Stagecoach Manchester had a reasonable relationship with Cheshire East and even took on the emergency 130 Sunday contract (running to Macclesfield) when GHA collapsed. Then the relationship got worse when Stagecoach decided running they were losing money on running 378s to Wilmslow. Tbh I think they were telling the truth as they were extending journeys operated by deckers but you could count the Wilmslow passengers on a single hand.

IIRC D&G changed their 378 to a 130 Macclesfield to Handforth Dean when Arriva cut their 130 service to hourly. Then they changed it to Wilmslow to Manchester Airport when the 200 was axed, and that was a diaster financially and they cut back their commercial operations in Cheshire East and then didn't register any new or replacement commercial services in the area for a few years afterwards.

 

[SeanM1997]

ServiceUpdatesArticle

www.stagecoachbus.com

Stagecoach is pleased to announce evening bus service enhancements to several services in the Chester area, starting from week commencing 3rd June 2024. In addition, the 204 will have minor timing changes and the Shopper Hopper 200 service will be withdrawn.

Full details below...



2 Chester – Ellesmere Port – Cheshire Oaks

A new Monday to Saturday evening service will be introduced in partnership with Cheshire West & Chester Council and using funding from the HM Government bus service improvement plan. There will be 4 new journeys from Chester to Ellesmere Port and Cheshire Oaks at 1950, 2050, 2155 and 2300 hrs. Return journeys from Cheshire Oaks will operate at 2030, 2130, 2235 and 2340 hrs, with an additional journey from Ellesmere Port bus station to Chester at 1930 hrs.



16 Chester – Saltney

A new Monday to Friday late evening service will be introduced in partnership with Cheshire West & Chester Council and using funding from the HM Government bus service improvement plan. There will be additional journeys leaving Chester Interchange at 2210 and 2320 hrs running the full service out to Saltney and return to Chester.



51E Chester – Plas Newton – Chester

A new Friday and Saturday late evening service will be introduced in partnership with Cheshire West & Chester Council and using funding from the HM Government bus service improvement plan. There will be additional journeys leaving Chester Interchange at 2000, 2100, 2200 and 2300 hrs, operating the full route out to Plas Newton and return to Chester. Please note that this service will start on Friday 7th June 2024.



53E Chester – Kingsway – Chester

A new Friday and Saturday late evening service will be introduced in partnership with Cheshire West & Chester Council and using funding from the HM Government bus service improvement plan. There will be additional journeys leaving Chester Interchange at 2030, 2130, 2230 and 2330 hrs, operating the full route out to Kingsway and return to Chester. Please note that this service will start on Friday 7th June 2024.



200 ‘Shopper Hopper’ Chester Interchange – Chester New Market – Chester Interchange

Cheshire West and Chester Council have taken the decision to end the contract for this service after the last day of operation on Saturday 1st June 2024. For more information, please contact Cheshire West & Chester Council.



204 Chester – Deeside Industrial Park

The overall timetable will remain broadly the same, but there will be some minor changes to intermediate times to improve the reliability of the service.

 

[daodao]

I suspect the 84/84X corridor has 1 bus too many. Its been a year of 4 buses an hour and more frequent Sunday services on the core section and still D&G and Stagecoach are competing with each other. Whether one will jump is yet to be seen but the new bus station will be needed for both companies to boost perception to get to a profitable level

I saw a double deck (!!) Stagecoach bus on route 84 with only a handful of passengers aboard yesterday lunchtime just north of Nantwich when driving to Leighton Hospital from an open garden visit. At least D&G don't waste money on double-deck buses given the paucity of bus use in Cheshire.

 

[Pub]

I saw a double deck (!!) Stagecoach bus on route 84 with only a handful of passengers aboard yesterday lunchtime just north of Nantwich when driving to Leighton Hospital from an open garden visit. At least D&G don't waste money on double-deck buses given the paucity of bus use in Cheshire.

Yet when Chester races was on last week i saw a single decker with standing passengers on two consective days, so you can never win.

 

[SeanM1997]

The 84 gets busy on Saturdays between Tarvin and Chester. There are normally a handful of people travelling the entire route between Crewe and Chester so whilst parts of the route appears overkill with a double decker, they normally are needed

The Crewe - Nantwich shuttle being a double decker however is very rarely needed

 

[PaulWC]

The 84 gets busy on Saturdays between Tarvin and Chester. There are normally a handful of people travelling the entire route between Crewe and Chester so whilst parts of the route appears overkill with a double decker, they normally are needed

The Crewe - Nantwich shuttle being a double decker however is very rarely needed

Yeah, I've seen single deckers leave Nantwich with full loads going towards Chester especially on a Saturday. It was Julian Peddle in Buses mag that said the 84 route to Chester was the real money spinner out of all the routes Arriva abandoned, although it would've been interesting to see how D&G would have coped running it if Stagecoach hadn't stepped in.

 

[Mollman]

Yeah, I've seen single deckers leave Nantwich with full loads going towards Chester especially on a Saturday. It was Julian Peddle in Buses mag that said the 84 route to Chester was the real money spinner out of all the routes Arriva abandoned, although it would've been interesting to see how D&G would have coped running it if Stagecoach hadn't stepped in.

I heard that D&G would have returned it to half-hourly Crewe to Chester so that would have spread some of the demand

 

[SeanM1997]

I heard that D&G would have returned it to half-hourly Crewe to Chester so that would have spread some of the demand

I doubt that otherwise they would be on hourly Crewe-Chester with a Nantwich short like Stagecoach are if there were demand for more than 1 bus an hour Crewe-Chester

 

[childwallblues]

Arriva has started to use its ten hydrogen buses owned by Liverpool City Region on route 10A St Helens to Liverpool. However the other ten (89001-10) to be operated by Stagecoach from its Gillmoss depot have not turnes a wheel for a long time. However things may be changing with the putting into livery of 89010.

 

[Pub]

I doubt that otherwise they would be on hourly Crewe-Chester with a Nantwich short like Stagecoach are if there were demand for more than 1 bus an hour Crewe-Chester

Dont forget Tarvin to Chester is also covered by D&G 82 Northwich service , so D&G would have been competing with themselves