Stagecoach orders 402 electric buses from Alexander Dennis and Yutong

[randyrippley]

I'm sure that I can read!

Maybe, but typos can happen

 

[Hyebone]

We now know where the other Stagecoach vehicles are coming from:

Honestly I'm surprised Chesterfield won't be going full ADL for this. I would've assumed since we're due a complete fleet replacement, they'd go for all the same manufacturer (ie ADL Enviro100EV, 200EV and 400EV for the different vehicle sizes we'll need)

I've got nothing but praise for the Yutongs I've been on in Rotherham and Nottingham. Brilliantly spec'd vehicles; I'm not sure what they're like from a driver POV but the passenger experience is phenomenal.

(Also a slight grievance with the article, they said the existing Stagecoach Yutongs were in Sheffield. They're in Rotherham! (Rawmarsh based))

 

[DaveHarries]

If they are producing the best vehicles (which in my opinion Yutongs are), then yes

I have to sit on the fence here as to which is the better vehicle. I have travelled on the Yutongs in Newport and Cardiff and I like the ride but I have also travelled on the BYD/ADL E400EV in Coventry and I like those too: I wouldn't mind if Bristol got the ADL ones instead of the Wrightbus ones we seem set to get when they start arriving in November 2025.

We now know where the other Stagecoach vehicles are coming from:

Stagecoach to take 158 Yutongs in landmark order - Bus & Coach Buyer

Stagecoach has confirmed a further 158 orders from Pelican Bus and Coach. In addition to the recent 23 single-deckers delivered to Sheffield, Pelican has been awarded further orders totalling 158 single-deck electric buses. These orders will mean that Stagecoach is the largest operator of Yutong...

www.busandcoachbuyer.com

That seems not to be an exhaustive list though as it only says those depots are included in the ones receiving vehicles from the order. Someone else has said Hull: anywhere else?

Dave

 

[hst43102]

I don't agree, we shouldn't be funding the political regime in China. I disagree with Chinese made products.

There should be a 100% import tax on Chinese made vehicles in and ideal world

To be honest I'd prefer if Chinese manufacturers were to build an assembly facility in the UK, or at least Europe, but I agree with @Blindtraveler in that I'd rather have a foreign-made quality vehicle than a British-made lightweight with barely any suspension and rattles on every bump.

 

[renegademaster]

Have Yutong got a good reputation because they've not been here long enough for the bus companies to run them into the ground yet? The new electric AD busses don't rattle either but the oldest are only about 5 years old

 

[Bornin1980s]

Interior fitment and finishing are done in Yorkshire as well.

How much of the work is actually done by Pelican Engineering?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Have Yutong got a good reputation because they've not been here long enough for the bus companies to run them into the ground yet? The new electric AD busses don't rattle but the oldest are only about 5 years old

Don't think that's the case. Too many ADL products have suffered from build issues, electric or otherwise. Haven't been on that many ADL EVs but the Bee Network e400EVs seem to have the same tell tale creaks. Admittedly, I've not been on too many Yutongs (Go North East ones) and I was impressed by the build quality in comparison.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Don't think that's the case. Too many ADL products have suffered from build issues, electric or otherwise. Haven't been on that many ADL EVs but the Bee Network e400EVs seem to have the same tell tale creaks. Admittedly, I've not been on too many Yutongs (Go North East ones) and I was impressed by the build quality in comparison.

Are the Chinese buses double glazed? That seems to be the thing that makes the biggest difference to avoiding rattles and creaks, as it makes the overall body more rigid.

 

[hst43102]

How much of the work is actually done by Pelican Engineering?

I believe they are delivered without interior fittings, seats, destination displays and other localised parts.

 

[Hyebone]

How much of the work is actually done by Pelican Engineering?

Nottingham City Transport stated: https://www.nctx.co.uk/electricbus

"Our electric buses support British jobs at Pelican Bus & Coach, who add about 40% of the value of the buses when finishing them to NCT’s specification at their factory in Yorkshire. Pelican have expanded in recent years because of the volume of buses and coaches they are importing."

 

[aswilliamsuk]

I believe the Sunderland part of this order was ordered late 2023, hence why the arrival date starts from July

It was - they should be 73024-43. They were ordered as part of the Levelling Up funding from Transport for North East that was awarded a while back (believe Go-Ahead and Arriva also benefitted from that)

Interestingly, the NECA has just recently approved another round of funding for a further 95 electric buses (following the Levelling Up funding and the ZEBRA 2 award): https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c9rre7zy9vlo

 

[K4016td]

Are the Chinese buses double glazed? That seems to be the thing that makes the biggest difference to avoiding rattles and creaks, as it makes the overall body more rigid.

I actually think it is the wheelbase and whether the buses are screwed or welded togheter, Scania integrals as notable example are very prone to rattling as they are screwed togheter and overtime with the bumps the rattling is more intense.

Yutongs are a good choice, anything but the rattly Enviro or even worse Streetlite I'd say.

 

[Fox192]

I have to sit on the fence here as to which is the better vehicle. I have travelled on the Yutongs in Newport and Cardiff and I like the ride but I have also travelled on the BYD/ADL E400EV in Coventry and I like those too: I wouldn't mind if Bristol got the ADL ones instead of the Wrightbus ones we seem set to get when they start arriving in November 2025.


That seems not to be an exhaustive list though as it only says those depots are included in the ones receiving vehicles from the order. Someone else has said Hull: anywhere else?

Dave

This might just be a guess but maybe they haven’t chose yutongs for Hull, maybe just ADL which may be why not mentioned on the list

 

[Great_Western]

Have Yutong got a good reputation because they've not been here long enough for the bus companies to run them into the ground yet? The new electric AD busses don't rattle either but the oldest are only about 5 years old

The oldest Newport Bus E12 is the ex demonstrator, YK66 CBC. Coming up on 8 years old now and it's doing absolutely fine. The 2020 batch of E12s from the first order are also just as good as the newest E12s being delivered in my experience. They seem to be holding up well.

IMO the Yutongs are the best buses currently available in their class, so it makes sense for Stagecoach to go down that road. In fact, I am a little surprised they haven't ordered the E9L as well, given the huge number of Solos that will need to be replaced at some point.

 

[DanNCL]

I onder why they have gone for so many Yutongs? I can't imagine that they have forsaken ADL 200s on the basis of reliability since the ADL 200s are untried. So it must be on price (is there any diference in price between Yutongs and ADL? We heard there was a price difference between ADL400s and the BYD double decker of £100,000) or delivery times.

In the case of Slatyford, one of the depots set to get Yutongs, the demonstrator was trialed there pre-covid and did incredibly well.

I don't agree, we shouldn't be funding the political regime in China. I disagree with Chinese made products.

There should be a 100% import tax on Chinese made vehicles in and ideal world

In an ideal world the British built products would actually be worth buying and then there’d be no need to buy Yutongs.

Having sampled electrics from ADL, Optare and Yutong, I found the Yutongs by some considerable margin to be the better quality vehicles. Though granted, I’ve not yet sampled the new clean sheet ADLs, only the BYD examples, so the clean sheet design may be better.

 

[Energy]

Stagecoach Midlands at Leamington Spa and Nuneaton will be due electric singles and doubles at some point, with the desire for all buses into Coventry to be Electric from the end of 2025. I wouldn’t be surprised if an alternative manufacturer is opted for the singles especially though.

Yutongs going to both Leamington Spa and Nuneaton.

According to this post on the ZEBRA 2 thread:

Warwickshire County Council - £4.3m for 27 EVs for Stagecoach Warwickshire routes 1, 4, 5/5a, 9, 10, 48a, 77/78 [rural bid]

Coventry's all-electric scheme has also funded some. I'd imagine we will see some E400EVs for the Unibus Uni of Warwick services (these touch the outskirts of Coventry) and a lot of Yutongs or E200EVs for everything else. It'll be interesting what ends up on the X17 (Coventry -> Leamington via Kenilworth), its hardly quiet but isn't particularly busy and currently runs a mix of E200s and E400s (of varying ages).

The new buses should see off the 05/06 ALX400s and early E400s.

Mention of the Coventry All Electric Bus City scheme and Nuneaton would suggest route 148 is included. That, and the date would explain why the Leicester BSIP June 2024 update - despite no word on further AEBC orders (beyond the 130 BYD E400EVs for National Express Coventry) before today - has Stagecoach as remaining on track to acquire 18 electrics this summer.

The 130 NX E400EVCitys have been delivered, NX Coventry is left with 11 E200s and 19 B7RLE Eclipse 2s, neither are particularly old. I'd expect to see an order to replace these soon, I could see E200EVs due to their long range and NX buying mostly ADL.

 

[Blindtraveler]

In the case of Slatyford, one of the depots set to get Yutongs, the demonstrator was trialed there pre-covid and did incredibly well.


In an ideal world the British built products would actually be worth buying and then there’d be no need to buy Yutongs.

Having sampled electrics from ADL, Optare and Yutong, I found the Yutongs by some considerable margin to be the better quality vehicles. Though granted, I’ve not yet sampled the new clean sheet ADLs, only the BYD examples, so the clean sheet design may be better

Yes, they will probably squeak and rattle and come to pieces even more than the present models whilst continuing with those awful ADL smart seats and unreliable systems that stop working after a while

 

[GusB]

Yes, they will probably squeak and rattle and come to pieces even more than the present models whilst continuing with those awful ADL smart seats and unreliable systems that stop working after a while

In other words, you haven't actually travelled on any of the the new AD models yet and you're simply making assumptions. Perhaps you should wait until you actually sample one before passing judgement.

 

[DaveHarries]

In other words, you haven't actually travelled on any of the the new AD models yet and you're simply making assumptions. Perhaps you should wait until you actually sample one before passing judgement.

I haven't yet had the chance to try one but I look forward to doing so: hopefully my employer will give me a jaunt to Oxford sometime soon which will give me the opportunity.

Dave

 

[Snex]

It was - they should be 73024-43. They were ordered as part of the Levelling Up funding from Transport for North East that was awarded a while back (believe Go-Ahead and Arriva also benefitted from that)

Interestingly, the NECA has just recently approved another round of funding for a further 95 electric buses (following the Levelling Up funding and the ZEBRA 2 award): https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c9rre7zy9vlo

The link you linked there are Yutongs which are coming to Sunderland and Slatyford, by the way, it was a bit of dodgy reporting and seems like they had to rush it through to meet a deadline. Why so late, who knows? No doubt politics so they can claim Kim did something when she clearly didn't.

Guess the deal was provisional on funding and they can formally announce it since they've actually gained the money from NECA (North East Combined Authority) now.

It clearly wasn't done today though, hence the 'quick' timings from Yutong as I've heard of the December date as well.

 

[childwallblues]

Noted that Preston is to get an allocation of Yutongs. Are these for the ex Fishwicks routes?

 

[Bornin1980s]

Nottingham City Transport stated: https://www.nctx.co.uk/electricbus

"Our electric buses support British jobs at Pelican Bus & Coach, who add about 40% of the value of the buses when finishing them to NCT’s specification at their factory in Yorkshire. Pelican have expanded in recent years because of the volume of buses and coaches they are importing."

40%? Sounds like more than the interior.

 

[Teapot42]

Not sure if I'm understanding this 100%, but is it just ADL and Yutong, and no Volvo? I thought the one they had on trial was popular?

Honestly I'm surprised Chesterfield won't be going full ADL for this. I would've assumed since we're due a complete fleet replacement, they'd go for all the same manufacturer (ie ADL Enviro100EV, 200EV and 400EV for the different vehicle sizes we'll need)

(Also a slight grievance with the article, they said the existing Stagecoach Yutongs were in Sheffield. They're in Rotherham! (Rawmarsh based))

Maybe you answer your own question - it's better to keep consistent within a division, especially with fairly small numbers. Easier to build engineering experience that way. Having people in Rawmarsh they can call on to get things up to speed quicker will almost certainly ease the introduction.

I do wonder if the bidding process had been different whether they could have gone for the Enviro100EV. I believe it's the only bus low enough to fit under the bridge at Barrow Hill, so would have allowed a complete electrification of the depot. However, my understanding is they had to specify two options and with no alternative they couldn't include that service on the bid.

 

[Mollman]

Not sure if I'm understanding this 100%, but is it just ADL and Yutong, and no Volvo? I thought the one they had on trial was popular?

Maybe you answer your own question - it's better to keep consistent within a division, especially with fairly small numbers. Easier to build engineering experience that way. Having people in Rawmarsh they can call on to get things up to speed quicker will almost certainly ease the introduction.

I do wonder if the bidding process had been different whether they could have gone for the Enviro100EV. I believe it's the only bus low enough to fit under the bridge at Barrow Hill, so would have allowed a complete electrification of the depot. However, my understanding is they had to specify two options and with no alternative they couldn't include that service on the bid.

I wonder if part of it is time scales - Warrington still seems to be awaiting their Volvos over a month after the launch, so perhaps going large with ADL came with a better guarantee of delivery dates.

 

[Bornin1980s]

Not sure if I'm understanding this 100%, but is it just ADL and Yutong, and no Volvo? I thought the one they had on trial was popular?

Maybe you answer your own question - it's better to keep consistent within a division, especially with fairly small numbers. Easier to build engineering experience that way. Having people in Rawmarsh they can call on to get things up to speed quicker will almost certainly ease the introduction.

I do wonder if the bidding process had been different whether they could have gone for the Enviro100EV. I believe it's the only bus low enough to fit under the bridge at Barrow Hill, so would have allowed a complete electrification of the depot. However, my understanding is they had to specify two options and with no alternative they couldn't include that service on the bid.

The announcement includes 10 Enviro100EVs. Where are they going?

 

[overthewater]

The announcement includes 10 Enviro100EVs. Where are they going?

Is that on top of the 3 going to Cambridge and 7 going to Glenrothes?

 

[Hyebone]

The announcement includes 10 Enviro100EVs. Where are they going?

It's a lot less than I would've thought considering we'd need a good few to cover requirements in Chesterfield

 

[Teapot42]

It's a lot less than I would've thought considering we'd need a good few to cover requirements in Chesterfield

I don't think there are that many routes at Chesterfield that would suit the Enviro100EV, most at least at some point during the day would need an E200 or Yutong sized bus.

I think they only way we'll be getting any though is if Stagecoach buy them from their own pocket. They couldn't bid for Zebra 2 funding for the 90 as it needed two options and nothing else fits under the bridge. I'm not sure if this funding could be used for tendered routes as they'd have been good for things like the Matlock Town services, and 15/16/48/49. They weren't included in the bid though.

 

[Energy]

I think they only way we'll be getting any though is if Stagecoach buy them from their own pocket. They couldn't bid for Zebra 2 funding for the 90 as it needed two options and nothing else fits under the bridge

Would the Switch/Optare Solo EV not fit?

 

[Edvid]

Pelican / Yutong presser from yesterday confirms the Preston buses are not linked to any of the government funding streams, and that the ZEBRA 2-backed orders were made a few weeks ago.

Looking at the numbers I'm coming to suspect a portion of the Stagecoach ZEBRA 2 allocation is still under wraps. 20 for Sunderland (LUF) and 18 for Nuneaton (Coventry AEBC) already accounts for more than 35 of the 'other' buses, plus however many Preston receives.