Stagecoach: "To comply with Department of Transport guidance, this service connects at…"

[Gaelan]

Many of the routes where there is the split being described here don’t use ‘cheap city buses’ but often well appointed buses with high back seats etc

In theory! Stagecoach's St Andrews expresses (X24/X59/X60) usually get the nice coaches but will seemingly at random (presumably due to vehicle shortages) get served by normal low-floor city buses.

 

[Statto]

Arriva Wales have the situation where buses change numbers. Routes such as Rhyl to Chester, Rhyl to Holywell is 11C, 11M, then becomes 11 Holywell to Chester. The same bus & driver operates through from Rhyl to Chester, & passengers can stay on the bus through Holywell.

 

[geoffk]

The inquiry into the 2019 Stagecoach crash in Devon, which involved a 19-year old driver, was told the law forbids drivers under the age of 21 on routes of more than 50km. Stagecoach Devon argued that the service was split into two sections, so the rule did not apply. The Commissioner described the argument that it was two routes rather than one as “pure fiction”.

The Commissioner said: “The Stagecoach Gold service from Torquay to Plymouth is advertised as a single service although registered as two connecting services, Torquay to Totnes and Totnes to Plymouth. The vehicle is the same. The driver is the same. The service retains the same name. There is a two-minute layover in Totnes. Any suggestion that it is two separate routes is pure fiction.” (quoted from Totnes Times).

Since then Stagecoach has made some changes to their routes in the area. For example, service 3 Plymouth - Dartmouth is now 3 Plymouth - Kingsbridge and 93 Kingsbridge - Dartmouth. The bus goes through and connections are shown in the timetable (and I assume through fares). I think Falcon now operates under EU rules with tachograph but I'm not certain of that.

 

[SouthEastBuses]

Wouldn't it make more sense to instead say, for example:

"S6 Oxford
via Faringdon"

The via point can be where the two registrations meet with eachother

By saying "S6 Faringdon for Oxford" one might imply that they have to change buses in Faringdon when this is not true at all as the S6 is a through route from Swindon to Oxford which just happens to go via Faringdon

The inquiry into the 2019 Stagecoach crash in Devon, which involved a 19-year old driver, was told the law forbids drivers under the age of 21 on routes of more than 50km. Stagecoach Devon argued that the service was split into two sections, so the rule did not apply. The Commissioner described the argument that it was two routes rather than one as “pure fiction”.

The Commissioner said: “The Stagecoach Gold service from Torquay to Plymouth is advertised as a single service although registered as two connecting services, Torquay to Totnes and Totnes to Plymouth. The vehicle is the same. The driver is the same. The service retains the same name. There is a two-minute layover in Totnes. Any suggestion that it is two separate routes is pure fiction.” (quoted from Totnes Times).

Since then Stagecoach has made some changes to their routes in the area. For example, service 3 Plymouth - Dartmouth is now 3 Plymouth - Kingsbridge and 93 Kingsbridge - Dartmouth. The bus goes through and connections are shown in the timetable (and I assume through fares). I think Falcon now operates under EU rules with tachograph but I'm not certain of that.

So does this mean that if I were travel to travel from Plymouth to Dartmouth I need to get off the bus and change at Kingsbridge then?

Arriva Wales have the situation where buses change numbers. Routes such as Rhyl to Chester, Rhyl to Holywell is 11C, 11M, then becomes 11 Holywell to Chester. The same bus & driver operates through from Rhyl to Chester, & passengers can stay on the bus through Holywell.

There's a similar situation in Gloucestershire (Stagecoach West). The Stroud to Bath route is numbered 69 (yes funny number if you get the meme) from Stroud to Old Sodbury, then 620 from Old Sodbury to Bath. This is despite the fact it's one single long route. Wouldn't it make more sense if the number was simply either 69 or 620 for the whole route?

It is a fudge. Everyone in the industry (including those charged with enforcing the drivers hours rules) knows it is a fudge. The destination displayed on the bus has no bearing on the ability of the driver to drive the bus. It is confusing for bus users and prevents potential users from realising they can get to distant places. So why doesn't everyone just stop beating about the bush and just show simply where the bus is going, both on the vehicle and in timetables?

Agreed. By all means say the via points on the destination, absolutely, it helps, but we need to stop with this nonsense of "Place X for Y".

 

[Nicholas43]

Wouldn't it make more sense to instead say, for example:

"S6 Oxford
via Faringdon"

'via' is a bad idea on a destination blind, because for the last half of the (real, whole) route it won't be true. Supposedly automatic, or supposedly driver-operated, dynamic destination blinds are a brave hostage to the technology failing, or the driver forgetting. Show one simple destination on the blind, and have a clear diagram of the route on panels on the bus stop poles.

 

[Gaelan]

Show one simple destination on the blind, and have a clear diagram of the route on panels on the bus stop poles.

I feel like you're overestimating the average quality of stop-pole signage - more often than not (in St Andrews at least), they're torn, outdated, or missing services. Many shelters still have signs up saying timetables may be out of date due to the pandemic.

Even when the signs are there and correct, they're at best spread among several sides of the pole, and at worst on a wall of the bus station waiting room, tens of metres from the stop itself. It's something you stop and analyze, not something you can quickly confirm as you're walking towards a bus.

 

[Statto]

There's a similar situation in Gloucestershire (Stagecoach West). The Stroud to Bath route is numbered 69 (yes funny number if you get the meme) from Stroud to Old Sodbury, then 620 from Old Sodbury to Bath. This is despite the fact it's one single long route. Wouldn't it make more sense if the number was simply either 69 or 620 for the whole route?

That's really odd numbering, 69A, or how about 690, for one section wouldn't be to bad.

Preston to Skipton had similar situation before Stagecoach took over the route, one section was 180, then became 280 or X80 at Clitheroe.

 

[SouthEastBuses]

That's really odd numbering, 69A, or how about 690, for one section wouldn't be to bad.

Tbh I agree, I'm so used to thinking that a 6xx would be a school bus!

 

[Nicholas43]

I feel like you're overestimating the average quality of stop-pole signage - more often than not (in St Andrews at least), they're torn, outdated, or missing services. Many shelters still have signs up saying timetables may be out of date due to the pandemic.

Yes. I just think it's easier to get the information on pole panels right, than it would be to either (a) get dynamic automated destination blinds to be reliable; or (b) get drivers to reliably switch destination legends during each journey. Sadly, many managers, apparently, can't be bovvered to do any of the above.

 

[Gaelan]

Yes. I just think it's easier to get the information on pole panels right, than it would be to either (a) get dynamic automated destination blinds to be reliable; or (b) get drivers to reliably switch destination legends during each journey. Sadly, many managers, apparently, can't be bovvered to do any of the above.

Fair enough - I still think that dynamic destination blinds are a better experience if you assume both are working reliably, but I'm all for doing the most-practical thing that improves the experience.

 

[GusB]

As the question in the opening post has been answered, and due to the fact that the topic is starting to drift, I think we can draw this thread to a close. Thanks all for your input