Stagecoach vs Midland Red

[BanburyBlue]

Can someone explain the relationship between the traditional bus companies and the new de-regulated companies.

Where we live our buses are run by Stagecoach Oxfordshire, but on the side of the buses in small print it still says Midland Red (South), Railway Terrace, Rugby. I'm assuming the same happens elsewhere. When I checked on that well known source of information Wikipedia, it states that "Midland Red South was sold on 10 December 1987 to Western Travel Limited who also owned the Cheltenham & Gloucester Omnibus Company. Today it is part of Stagecoach in Oxfordshire and Stagecoach in Warwickshire".

It seems strange to me that if Midland Red was sold, why their name is still printed on the sides of their buses?

Thanks.

 

[northwichcat]

Midland Red was split in to 6 companies in 1981. One of them, Midland Red South was purchased by Western Travel Limited who have since been acquired by Stagecoach, as you say.

The small print has to show the registered name of the operator opposed to the operating name.

Stagecoach acquired Barnsley based Yorkshire Traction and their buses and registrations show as THE YORKSHIRE TRACTION CO LTD T/A STAGECOACH YORKSHIRE.

 

[Wolfie]

Can someone explain the relationship between the traditional bus companies and the new de-regulated companies.

Where we live our buses are run by Stagecoach Oxfordshire, but on the side of the buses in small print it still says Midland Red (South), Railway Terrace, Rugby. I'm assuming the same happens elsewhere. When I checked on that well known source of information Wikipedia, it states that "Midland Red South was sold on 10 December 1987 to Western Travel Limited who also owned the Cheltenham & Gloucester Omnibus Company. Today it is part of Stagecoach in Oxfordshire and Stagecoach in Warwickshire".

It seems strange to me that if Midland Red was sold, why their name is still printed on the sides of their buses?

Thanks.

Stagecoach is a holding company which owns various operating companies (there are commercial and doubtless tax advantages to such a set-up). The bus operating company in your area legally is Midland Red (South) which holds the operator licences etc and just happens to be 100% owned by Stagecoach [for your information Midland Red(North) is owned by Arriva].

This is no different to Stagecoach owning EMT and SWT which are train operating companies.

 

[BanburyBlue]

Thanks both, makes sense now.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Midland Red was split in to 6 companies in 1981. One of them, Midland Red South was purchased by Western Travel Limited who have since been acquired by Stagecoach, as you say.

The small print has to show the registered name of the operator opposed to the operating name.

Stagecoach acquired Barnsley based Yorkshire Traction and their buses and registrations show as THE YORKSHIRE TRACTION CO LTD T/A STAGECOACH YORKSHIRE.

Slight clarification - Midland Red was split into five operating companies (North, East, South, West and Express) whilst the central works remained with the NBC and became Carlyle Works and a body manufacturer.

Midland Red South was allocated the operations at Nuneaton, Rugby, Stratford, Leamington and Banbury, and was privatised being sold to Western Travel, the holding company of Cheltenham and Gloucester. The oddity is that having Stagecoach buying Western Travel and also Thames Transit in Oxfordshire, the Banbury depot was transferred to Stagecoach Oxfordshire management and control but remains on the MRS ownership and O license IIRC.

Mr Bonwick will shed more light on that arrangement, I suggest

 

[TAS]

The other main difference is that Stagecoach tend to keep the original limited company name, whereas the other large groups which trade under their own name (First, Arriva) tend to change it.

Thus, for example:

• First Somerset & Avon Ltd originally registered in 1887 as Bristol Omnibus Company Ltd (Companies House)
• Arriva Yorkshire Ltd originally registered in 1905 as West Riding Automobile Company Ltd (Companies House)
• Arriva North East Ltd originally registered in 1912 as United Automobile Services Ltd (Companies House)
• First Cymru Buses Ltd originally registered in 1914 as South Wales Transport Company Ltd (The) (Companies House)
• Arriva Cymru Ltd originally registered in 1919 as Crosville Wales Ltd (Companies House)
• First Eastern Counties Buses Ltd originally registered in 1931 as Eastern Counties Omnibus Company Ltd (Companies House)

 

[overthewater]

First renamed the Glasgow operations but Midland bluebird was never changed.

 

[TAS]

First renamed the Glasgow operations but Midland bluebird was never changed.

That's true, which is why I said 'tend'. Similarly, there are Stagecoach operations which have been renamed: e.g. Stagecoach South Ltd was Hampshire Bus Company Ltd and Stagecoach North West Ltd was Cumberland Motor Services Ltd.

In general terms, however, the rule seems to be that First and Arriva tend to rename their subsidiaries and Stagecoach normally don't.

 

[Andyh82]

And Stagecoach have recently merged companies together leading to strange looking legal names on buses.

Stagecoach buses across large parts of Lancashire are operating under the 'Glenvale Transport Limited' licence. Glenvale being a post deregulation start up in Liverpool.

Stagecoach buses in Hull are operated by 'Lincolnshire Road Car Company limited'

 

[mbonwick]

Stagecoach North West Ltd was Cumberland Motor Services Ltd.

True, but what is now Stagecoach Cumbria & North Lancashire (previously NW) does still trade as Cumberland Motor Services.

First line of the legals on vehicles reads "Stagecoach (North West) Ltd T/A Cumberland Motor Services"

 

[overthewater]

Yes, but I was pointing out the one exception to the rule with First

 

[mbonwick]

And Stagecoach have recently merged companies together leading to strange looking legal names on buses.

Stagecoach buses across large parts of Lancashire are operating under the 'Glenvale Transport Limited' licence. Glenvale being a post deregulation start up in Liverpool.

Stagecoach buses in Hull are operated by 'Lincolnshire Road Car Company limited'

This is down to the desire of the Traffic Commissioners to aim for a "one operator, one licence" situation. Most major operators are being encouraged to consolidate everything down to one licence per region.
Stagecoach have been pretty good at keeping most of the old licences where possible, but they dropped the ball when they ditched Ribble in favour of Glenvale.

 

[johnw]

This is down to the desire of the Traffic Commissioners to aim for a "one operator, one licence" situation. Most major operators are being encouraged to consolidate everything down to one licence per region.
Stagecoach have been pretty good at keeping most of the old licences where possible, but they dropped the ball when they ditched Ribble in favour of Glenvale.

Exactly, and they did the same when the historic 'United Counties Omnibus Company' was sacrificed for the 1980!s 'Midland Red South' even though Stagecoach Midlands is based in Northampton...

 

[northwichcat]

This is down to the desire of the Traffic Commissioners to aim for a "one operator, one licence" situation. Most major operators are being encouraged to consolidate everything down to one licence per region.
Stagecoach have been pretty good at keeping most of the old licences where possible, but they dropped the ball when they ditched Ribble in favour of Glenvale.

It's happening with other operators as well. When GHA Coaches expanded in to Cheshire East they were registering services on licences they acquired from Vale of Llangollen Travel, they still have a couple of routes on a Vale of Llangollen Travel licence but most have been transferred to a GHA licence at the most recent timetable amendments.