stagecoach wigan future.

[Scania3379man]

hi guys,

I wonder what gonna happen to stagecoach wigan in the future?

1) new brand: 600, 540, 598 or 658
2) new stagecoach gold on 600 or 658 maybe 540
3) new hybrid as well
4) magicbus on any route for cheap for £1.
5) stagecoach tube like oxford tube travel, from london to wigan but i know NE already on london to blackpool vs birmingham.

Any thought?

Thank you.

Martyn

 

[mbonwick]

Wigan does not have the right demographic for Gold conversion, nor for express coaches.
Hybrids will not happen without further rounds of government support.
MagicBus will only appear if there is a percieved competitive threat from another operator.

So the most that will happen from your list is a rebranding of services, but that's unlikely.

 

[Scania3379man]

Wigan does not have the right demographic for Gold conversion, nor for express coaches.
Hybrids will not happen without further rounds of government support.
MagicBus will only appear if there is a percieved competitive threat from another operator.

So the most that will happen from your list is a rebranding of services, but that's unlikely.

I know yeah, mbonwick...the thing is hybrid is good help for children primary school like my area in winstanley will suitable hybrid because we have 3 or 4 primary school in that area like highfield, wigan and 2 school in marus bridge, wigan on air pollution. I would like make stagecoach hybrid help better in wigan. I know manchester get green light for hybrid last year, so the brand for 4 route should get popular like 222 in barnsley, and colchester brand on 71 i think(not sure) i thought they know wigan popular passenger is 600.

Express coaches like go to scarborough or north england or maybe south like exeter or torquay maybe eastbourne something like that.

Gold service, is situation that i think maybe not accept like u say at the above, i know u're might be right. Oh well Wait and see in the future.

Magic bus, the cheap £1 is possible like my local or 621/8 get more passenger then carry on until new brand to save money, that's my guess.

Cheerio

Martyn

 

[mbonwick]

You need to start being realistic.

Hybrids might be better for the environment, but the only ones that will appear will be owned by TfGM. Even then that's less likely as Stagecoach have just lost a big chunk of schools work.
Just because a route gets branded, doesn't mean it will become popular.

Similarly, there is no demand for coach services. What demand there is is already met by private coach ops. In this day and age, people take the car on holiday, not a coach.

MagicBus does not save money - it still costs the same to run the buses, regardless of how much is charged in fares. It will not appear unless there is good reason.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

You need to start being realistic.

Hybrids might be better for the environment, but the only ones that will appear will be owned by TfGM. Even then that's less likely as Stagecoach have just lost a big chunk of schools work.
Just because a route gets branded, doesn't mean it will become popular.

Similarly, there is no demand for coach services. What demand there is is already met by private coach ops. In this day and age, people take the car on holiday, not a coach.

MagicBus does not save money - it still costs the same to run the buses, regardless of how much is charged in fares. It will not appear unless there is good reason.

Sorry Martyn. It's a bit difficult to fully get your gist but Mr Bonwick is pretty much on the nail. MagicBus has only been used for competitive reasons (despite anything that may have been said). Gold has been used to attract middle class passengers hence why it's been mainly in the Mids/West not Northern England.

Coach services like the Oxford Tube are very rare and that one is popular because of a poor rail link between there and the capital.

And don't get me on about branding. Arriva used to believe that merely placing some vinyls on a vehicle was branding (e.g. 385), and that would suddenly generate extra passengers.

To get extra passengers is about a blend of different factors, from pricing through to frequencies, vehicles, roadside publicity and infrastructure, bus priority, etc. Not an exhaustive list!

 

[Scania3379man]

then guys,

I think Wigan gonna not a good profit in the future at all because nothing brand or else. Like 256 hybrid in manchester to flixton the flixton is small area like Pemberton or hindley how you can explain that? what about popular on 256 to flixton are they good popular in flixton area at all? Im not sure stagecoach is make a mistake and careful to sort out in wigan area. what the point how small or large area like mine or kitt green? what about liverpool get brand straight away or chester brand on x22 and 15? why wigan get nothing? Sound like wigan get poor profit. Do you think the manager will happy for wigan? Who know!?

Mbonwick : then why Stagecoach acquire in wigan?

I understand about coach but National express get 2 or 3 times a day(not sure) fine but you know better wigan is a small town not big city at all. u see? I think better get rid ne off wigan. NE need save money. let people use a car.

Martyn

 

[Y961 XBU]

Theres a lot of Drivers from Wigan currently going around saying that Stagecoach head office want to give them a pay cut and that Strike may soon happen, dno whats going on but i have heard it being said a hell of a lot the last few days

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

then guys,

I think Wigan gonna not a good profit in the future at all because nothing brand or else. Like 256 hybrid in manchester to flixton the flixton is small area like Pemberton or hindley how you can explain that? what about popular on 256 to flixton are they good popular in flixton area at all? Im not sure stagecoach is make a mistake and careful to sort out in wigan area. what the point how small or large area like mine or kitt green? what about liverpool get brand straight away or chester brand on x22 and 15? why wigan get nothing? Sound like wigan get poor profit. Do you think the manager will happy for wigan? Who know!?

Mbonwick : then why Stagecoach acquire in wigan?

I understand about coach but National express get 2 or 3 times a day(not sure) fine but you know better wigan is a small town not big city at all. u see? I think better get rid ne off wigan. NE need save money. let people use a car.

Martyn

Mr Bonwick will know better than me but I think those 256 hybrids were part funded by the GBF: https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...ent_data/file/249974/green-bus-fund-table.pdf

As for fleet replacement, Stagecoach inherited a load of rubbish with aged Excels and Renowns (?). Instead, you've now got a load of e200/e300s that are 18 months old and few if any non DDA compliant vehicles. I suggest you travel to Cornwall, then count your blessings

 

[TOCDriver]

Mr Bonwick will know better than me but I think those 256 hybrids were part funded by the GBF: https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...ent_data/file/249974/green-bus-fund-table.pdf

As for fleet replacement, Stagecoach inherited a load of rubbish with aged Excels and Renowns (?). Instead, you've now got a load of e200/e300s that are 18 months old and few if any non DDA compliant vehicles. I suggest you travel to Cornwall, then count your blessings

I wish the GM Orange Atlanteans would make a return.

 

[abbo1234]

When stagecoach acquired Wigan,personally i think it should have been attached to Merseyside and South Lancashire.

It is more closely linked to Chorley,Preston and Gillmoss depots and more new services could have been developed,such as the old link between Wigan and Preston,via Chorley and Wigan and Liverpool.These services could also be operated from the depots at both ends.

This arrangement would also be more passenger friendly with the Northwest Megarider Gold tickets being accepted for travel,instead of the current Stagecoach Manchester range.

Also i think it would be a good idea to resume GM Buses old 627 service to Skemerdale.

 

[robertclark125]

I agree with abbo1234, it should've been. Thing is, with it not, it's kind of been left on its own, and as mentioned, links aren't great between Preston and Wigan.

But, on the flip side, regards tickets, Wigan is in Greater Manchester.

 

[Statto]

When stagecoach acquired Wigan,personally i think it should have been attached to Merseyside and South Lancashire.

It is more closely linked to Chorley,Preston and Gillmoss depots and more new services could have been developed,such as the old link between Wigan and Preston,via Chorley and Wigan and Liverpool.These services could also be operated from the depots at both ends.

This arrangement would also be more passenger friendly with the Northwest Megarider Gold tickets being accepted for travel,instead of the current Stagecoach Manchester range.

Also i think it would be a good idea to resume GM Buses old 627 service to Skemerdale.

Is there a need for a competing 627, as Arriva already operate 4 bph Wigan Skem 375-385-395 extending to Ormskirk & Southport over the old 627 route?

 

[mbonwick]

There is no link between route branding and profits. Just because a route has branding, doesn't mean its doing well. Just because a route has no branding, doesn't mean it's losing money.
At the end of the day, branding is down to local management. Liverpool is a very different situation to Manchester. Manchester have been very successful at growing their business without branding, and have won several awards.

All the hybrids bought so far by Stagecoach (bearing in mind none of the TfL spec ones are owned) have been with GBF, or SGBF support. In a recent RouteOne interview Chris Bowles (Manchester MD) said that without funding, a hybrid (currently) takes 20 years to pay back its costs. Now, most bus companies depreciate vehicles over 15-20 years, so you see the problem....

With regard to the staff strike, I doubt personally that it'll be over a paycut, but T&Cs like the last dispute.
(Under First, the first day back from holiday for a driver was always a rest day. Stagecoach wouldn't give the same concession.)

 

[Scania3379man]

When stagecoach acquired Wigan,personally i think it should have been attached to Merseyside and South Lancashire.

It is more closely linked to Chorley,Preston and Gillmoss depots and more new services could have been developed,such as the old link between Wigan and Preston,via Chorley and Wigan and Liverpool.These services could also be operated from the depots at both ends.

This arrangement would also be more passenger friendly with the Northwest Megarider Gold tickets being accepted for travel,instead of the current Stagecoach Manchester range.

Also i think it would be a good idea to resume GM Buses old 627 service to Skemerdale.

I would thought about that, abbo...wigan should not be in gtr manchester but it take over in 1970's later or early by london brough government to agree. I know wigan to manchester bit long way on 32 or 33. wigan to chorley or st helens and liverpool via would be better tho cos near there.

Martyn

 

[Carlisle]

Gold has been used to attract middle class passengers hence why it's been mainly in the Mids/West not Northern England.

t!

Yes frankly it's amazing they attempt to run anything at all north of Watford let alone in those dim and distant enclaves of Workington or Perth

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Yes frankly it's amazing they attempt to run anything at all north of Watford let alone in those dim and distant enclaves of Workington or Perth

I didn't say it was right, just stating the facts There are more Gold routes in Oxford than in the whole of the country north of Birmingham!

 

[Carlisle]

I didn't say it was right, just stating the facts There are more Gold routes in Oxford than in the whole of the country north of Birmingham!

Yes I can see what you mean plus I have always wondered why Oxford can manage to justify such a highly intensive coach service to London compared to any other Uk city

 

[hassaanhc]

Yes I can see what you mean plus I have always wondered why Oxford can manage to justify such a highly intensive coach service to London compared to any other Uk city

Choice of two operators running 24 hours with 4-6bph each for much of the day, choice of stops in London and Oxford for same fare, £18 return same or next day, £20 for return within 3 months. ~90 min journey time. Guaranteed seat and luggage capacity.

Vs
2tph fast frequency, long wait at Didcot Parkway and Reading on stopper, CDR £24.20, SVR 26.70, SDR £58. Fast train 60 mins, stopper double (often quicker to change between both at Slough or Reading), and no 24 hour services. No guaranteed seat at busy times and poor luggage capacity.

Seems like a no brainer really for most people, no wonder they have to run such frequent services due to the demand. Who wants to stand for much of the journey when the coach guarantees you a seat for lower fare (only solve this if trains were seated-only, no standing allowed). And running more often means less waiting around, and choice of stops so more likely to be closer to you (indeed last year when I went Oxford with family their nearest stop was only 5 min walk away).

 

[Robertj21a]

EDIT

(Under First, the first day back from holiday for a driver was always a rest day. Stagecoach wouldn't give the same concession.)

Really ?? - if that's been the case all along then it's no surprise that First Group were heading down the pan. Nice, but quite unrealistic for a PLC in poor shape.

 

[mbonwick]

May have been a local agreement with whichever union it is, I don't know.

That was the info I was given, can't vouch for its accuracy.

 

[WatcherZero]

Arriva has just launched their Sapphire luxury brand on services between Chorley and Wigan and Wigan and Bolton. I presume thats similar to the Stagecoach Gold brand? though Stagecoachs operation in Wigan arent in the affluent areas like Arrivas is.

At the moment Stagecoach Wigan is a sub division of Stagecoach Manchester which makes sense for county tickets and future integrated ticketing.

 

[radamfi]

There's nothing really special about Stagecoach Gold or Arriva Sapphire. They are still using cheap Alexander Dennis buses. There's not even any air conditioning or double glazing, which means steamed up windows in winter and therefore an unpleasant travelling environment. Gold or Sapphire don't guarantee real time information, vehicle tracking to improve service delivery, nor next stop indicators. Neither do they typically offer fast boarding, as they still use the traditional ticket system of paying the driver in cash.

 

[GaryMcEwan]

There's nothing really special about Stagecoach Gold or Arriva Sapphire. They are still using cheap Alexander Dennis buses. There's not even any air conditioning or double glazing, which means steamed up windows in winter and therefore an unpleasant travelling environment. Gold or Sapphire don't guarantee real time information, vehicle tracking to improve service delivery, nor next stop indicators. Neither do they typically offer fast boarding, as they still use the traditional ticket system of paying the driver in cash.

Perth has Gold E350h's, so I doubt they will be cheap. And also the Perth buses are tracked by their ETM's so they know if they are late or early.

The only reason Perth has Gold is that service 7 goes past Sir Soutar's house on the Glasgow Road...

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Arriva has just launched their Sapphire luxury brand on services between Chorley and Wigan and Wigan and Bolton. I presume thats similar to the Stagecoach Gold brand? though Stagecoachs operation in Wigan arent in the affluent areas like Arrivas is.

Not so much the demographics locally but how Stagecoach and Arriva essentially view the same product. Stagecoach have targeted middle class punter whilst Arriva have experimented more and have a number of routes (esp. Arriva NE) that are in less well off areas.

 

[WatcherZero]

There's nothing really special about Stagecoach Gold or Arriva Sapphire. They are still using cheap Alexander Dennis buses. There's not even any air conditioning or double glazing, which means steamed up windows in winter and therefore an unpleasant travelling environment. Gold or Sapphire don't guarantee real time information, vehicle tracking to improve service delivery, nor next stop indicators. Neither do they typically offer fast boarding, as they still use the traditional ticket system of paying the driver in cash.

Well here they have plush seats rather than benches, free wi-fi, electrical sockets like on trains, audio and visual next stop indicators, online ticket pre-purchasing and contactless ticketing.

 

[mbonwick]

There's nothing really special about Stagecoach Gold or Arriva Sapphire. They are still using cheap Alexander Dennis buses.

Well what other options are there? Wrightbus? Quality there is known to be extremely variable...

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Well what other options are there? Wrightbus? Quality there is known to be extremely variable...

Always found Wrightbus to be reasonable with an edge over ADL. However, you can always have Optare....

 

[radamfi]

contactless ticketing.

Which route has contactless ticketing? Does it apply to single fares?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Well what other options are there? Wrightbus? Quality there is known to be extremely variable...

Also Mercedes-Benz, VDL Berkhof, Irisbus, MAN and Van Hool.

 

[Y961 XBU]

Which route has contactless ticketing? Does it apply to single fares?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Also Mercedes-Benz, VDL Berkhof, Irisbus, MAN and Van Hool.

Scaina would also be a good choice, ok your waiting a while for the Buses to get built but i think overall they are worth a look

Another option would be Volvo, The Chassis they make are a dream

 

[mbonwick]

Given that the majority of Gold routes are decker, you'd be struggling from any of those manufacturers;

Merc, Irisbus, MAN don't have any decker offerings for the UK, only chassis at best.
VDL to all intents and purposes are equivilant to Wrightbus - the 2 have a close collaboration, and in some markets the Wright Streetlite is badged as the VDL Citea.

Van Hool, while they do produce RHD coaches, are not interested in service buses unless there's major money on the table, especially in this country.

So realistically, we're only looking at a choice of chassis - and the Gold E400s are Scania based anyway.