Stagecoach X5 Oxford-Cambridge

[Megafuss]

Just to add to this now, Stagecoach have confirmed the coaches will be returning BUT only on the section between Oxford-Bedford (still the X5). It will be split at Bedford from 30th August and the eastern section operated by double deckers - this appears to be a permanent change as the new 905 (Bedford-Cambridge) will serve North Cambridge (for the CPCA it seems). Understandable for such a long route to split it for punctuality, but I wonder how it will impact what seems to be a predominantly leisure market on this corridor, who may be averse to changing buses. Obviously very few passengers going the whole way, but I would think quite a few crossing Bedford. Either way, the days of the Oxford-Cambridge X5 are numbered.

The eastern part was very popular with student and commuters between St Neots and Cambridge.

In normal circumstances it would be a no brainer to split it. The Science Park was a big boom area and the college is always going to be popular + the local transport types/busybodies have been calling for better links to North Cambridge. So if you are going add those to a route from St Neots and Cambourne area then it makes sense to just "use" the X5 as a base to build rather than duplicate with a brand new service.

However, at weekends the X5 was very well used on the long distance flows and they were paying £15/25 a pop. They'll lose that (if it was ever to come back) and it's not clear how many people will return to commuting between St Neots and Cambridge. So it's just as well the Mayor is funding it...

 

[markymark2000]

Interesting. By "for the CPCA" do you mean "at the request of the CPCA"?

I presume "North Cambridge" means the Cambridge North / Science Park / Regional College area? A plus of such a change might be a proper rail connection at Cambridge North?


From observation, the end-to-end traffic tends to be heavily concentrated on Fridays/Sundays with students. Most "real" day to day traffic tends to be much shorter distance.



Edit:
Details available at https://www.stagecoachbus.com/promos-and-offers/east/August-30th-service-changes#tab2



Locations served as follows:

Bedford
Roxton
Eaton Socon
St Neots
Cambourne*
Cambridge Regional College*
Cambridge Science Park*
Canbridge

*Newly served locations.

Ahh, I saw a tender go out for Cambourne to the Science Park for an exclusive bus so I wonder if this is an alternative bid for the contract to encourage longer distance travellers.

CPCA - The Science Shuttle Service: Cambourne to Cambridge Science Park - Contracts Finder

www.contractsfinder.service.gov.uk

Commission a new express bus service from Cambourne to Cambridge Science Park, running Monday to Friday only, for a period of 12 months commencing September 2020

 

[Megafuss]

Ahh, I saw a tender go out for Cambourne to the Science Park for an exclusive bus so I wonder if this is an alternative bid for the contract to encourage longer distance travellers.

CPCA - The Science Shuttle Service: Cambourne to Cambridge Science Park - Contracts Finder

www.contractsfinder.service.gov.uk

It's quite clever from Stagecoach as if they keep broadley the same level of service as the pre covid X5, the diversion won't cost them any more vehicles as it used to have 30 mins at Parkside. So they've effectively turned a commercial service into a part tendered one as they'll effectively be getting paid to fill the layover time at Cambridge

 

[cnjb8]

Just to add to this now, Stagecoach have confirmed the coaches will be returning BUT only on the section between Oxford-Bedford (still the X5). It will be split at Bedford from 30th August and the eastern section operated by double deckers - this appears to be a permanent change as the new 905 (Bedford-Cambridge) will serve North Cambridge (for the CPCA it seems). Understandable for such a long route to split it for punctuality, but I wonder how it will impact what seems to be a predominantly leisure market on this corridor, who may be averse to changing buses. Obviously very few passengers going the whole way, but I would think quite a few crossing Bedford. Either way, the days of the Oxford-Cambridge X5 are numbered.

Hasn't the Eastern section always been trouble with having enough seats for passengers between Bedford and Cambridge? Also how is the new train service, which stagecoach will have to compete with, effecting the X5?

By the looks of it, the surplus coaches will replace the Panthers on the 99.

 

[Mwanesh]

The eastern section has always been busy. With the traffic problems in Oxford it makes business sense to split the route. They would have looked at all posibilities and cometo that conclusion. Coaches will be used at some point on the route. They have too many deckers lying about and the capacity is better during these times

 

[Ianno87]

It's quite clever from Stagecoach as if they keep broadley the same level of service as the pre covid X5, the diversion won't cost them any more vehicles as it used to have 30 mins at Parkside. So they've effectively turned a commercial service into a part tendered one as they'll effectively be getting paid to fill the layover time at Cambridge

And the (pre-Covid) queues of cars along Madingley Road each morning means the journey time "hit" for the diversion probably isn't that massive either.

I presume in central Cambridge it will still use Parkside stop and depart via Victoria Avenue then Milton Road.

Inbound it could arrive via Elizabeth Way which might save some time.

 

[Deerfold]

That'll put it back closer to how it was pre-X5 (Though the old Milton Keynes-Bedford route wasn't as direct or frequent. I went out for a while with a girl whose family lived in Bromham which was served by the preceding route then).

 

[jopsuk]

From Sunday, direct coaches are no more. Coaches to continue to be used west of Bedford, double deckers (unspecified, and no depot yet specified) on the eastern section. The note about bikes in the announcement is because at present you can turn up with a "normal" bike and sling it in the luggage hold. Not used every service, but I know people find it useful on the end-to-end given the delights of taking them on GWR trains. Also means that eg St Neots to West Cambridge is no longer served, something people do do as a commute.

Of course, it might revert when all this is over. But who knows if and when that is?

From Sunday 30th August 2020, we will be altering the X5 route and introducing a new 905 service between Bedford and Cambridge, in conjunction with the Cambridgeshire and Peterborough Combined Authority.



The new X5 and 905 timetables will be available soon.



What are the route changes?

• The old route will be split into two parts: the X5 will operate as normal between Oxford and Bedford and a new 905 Service will be introduced between Bedford and Cambridge.
• Passengers wishing to travel through to Cambridge will need to change to the 905 service at Bedford Bus Station.
• Coaches will operate on the X5 service and double deck buses will operate on the new 905 service. Bikes must be folded and bagged and kept with you at all times when travelling on the 905.

Customers travelling on services x5 and 905 can buy a transfer ticket which allows them to travel between the two services without paying twice.



Please note that the 905 route will initially operate within the Science Park on a hail and ride basis until permanent stops can be located. Those wishing to board must clearly indicate this to the driver in a safe place and those wanting to leave the bus must ring the bell in plenty of time.

 

[Ianno87]

From Sunday, direct coaches are no more. Coaches to continue to be used west of Bedford, double deckers (unspecified, and no depot yet specified) on the eastern section. The note about bikes in the announcement is because at present you can turn up with a "normal" bike and sling it in the luggage hold. Not used every service, but I know people find it useful on the end-to-end given the delights of taking them on GWR trains. Also means that eg St Neots to West Cambridge is no longer served, something people do do as a commute.

St Neots to West Cambridge will however be possible reasonably easily by changing at Cambourne onto a citi 4, which the 905 will now serve.

Of course, it might revert when all this is over. But who knows if and when that is?

The route change (or rather, provision of a route between Cambourne and Cambridge Science Park) is contracted to the Cambridgeshire and Peterborough Combined Authority for at least 12 months. I guess it will depend on how much patronage builds up on this section as to whether it continues commercially, via a new contract or the service reverts back to the former route via Madingley Road at that point (buses after 1900 will remain via this route, it seems).

I wouldn't expect cross-Bedford working to return, however.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I wouldn't expect cross-Bedford working to return, however.

I wouldn't expect Oxford-Bedford to last in its present form past the opening of EWR, so I think in some ways it just precedes that by a few years - the main places on the route except Buckingham will be served by train.

MK-Bedford is (as I've said before) a silly gap in EWR, so I could potentially see the 905 being extended back to MK or a separate fast service being put on? Buckingham could be an issue, though, and may end up with a vastly inferior service to now.

 

[Ianno87]

I wouldn't expect Oxford-Bedford to last in its present form past the opening of EWR, so I think in some ways it just precedes that by a few years - the main places on the route except Buckingham will be served by train.

MK-Bedford is (as I've said before) a silly gap in EWR, so I could potentially see the 905 being extended back to MK or a separate fast service being put on? Buckingham could be an issue, though, and may end up with a vastly inferior service to now.

Even with EWR, there'll still be a need for some form of Bedford - Central MK express link.

Even if EWR did provide a direct Bedford - MK Central service, it's still a hefty walk "balk" to the Shopping Centre / Theatre district area, so the bus journey time will compare favourably.

 

[choochootrain]

Why on earth are they splitting the X5? My brother, who studies in Cambridge and regularly stays with us during the weekends, when told this has decided to instead travel by train through London to Bicester. I think Stagecoach will lose a lot of the student trade over this, people generally don't like waiting around for connections, especially in somewhere like Bedford...

 

[Bletchleyite]

Why on earth are they splitting the X5? My brother, who studies in Cambridge and regularly stays with us during the weekends, when told this has decided to instead travel by train through London to Bicester. I think Stagecoach will lose a lot of the student trade over this, people generally don't like waiting around for connections, especially in somewhere like Bedford...

"Somewhere like Bedford"? It's one of the better places to change bus, better than many railway stations. There are toilets, it's in the centre so there are plenty of shops etc and it is a fully covered bus station.

 

[choochootrain]

"Somewhere like Bedford"? It's one of the better places to change bus, better than many railway stations. There are toilets, it's in the centre so there are plenty of shops etc and it is a fully covered bus station.

But the X5 doesn't stop in the covered section of the bus station, instead it waits at some dingy bus stops outside. As I said, Stagecoach have just lost the student trade and it wouldn't surprise me if there weren't service cuts in the near future.

 

[Bletchleyite]

But the X5 doesn't stop in the covered section of the bus station, instead it waits at some dingy bus stops outside.

Yeah, but you don't have to go to those stops until the bus is due.

As I said, Stagecoach have just lost the student trade and it wouldn't surprise me if there weren't service cuts in the near future.

I bet they haven't. Students mostly want what is cheap and mostly don't overly care about a change. Anyone wanting the premium option for an Oxford-Cambridge journey who doesn't drive will go by train - and that requires two changes!

 

[overthewater]

I take it some Connections will be Guaranteed?

 

[Bletchleyite]

I take it some Connections will be Guaranteed?

I doubt it, but if both routes are half hourly (which they will be long-term, even if not during COVID) then if you miss one you've not got long to wait anyway.

The pre COVID timetable had coaches sitting at Bedford for 20 minutes to catch up time anyway.

 

[Ianno87]

Why on earth are they splitting the X5? My brother, who studies in Cambridge and regularly stays with us during the weekends, when told this has decided to instead travel by train through London to Bicester. I think Stagecoach will lose a lot of the student trade over this, people generally don't like waiting around for connections, especially in somewhere like Bedford...

I'm convinced end-to-end traffic is very much the minority, and very concentrated at certain times (Friday / Sunday).

Plus it must be quite low-yield. A return passenger from Cambridge to Oxford pays the same as a return passenger from Cambridge to Bedford, as the fares 'peak' quite quickly on the route.

If anything, passengers might actually appreciate the fresh air and leg stretch at Bedford more than sitting in a single seat for 3 and a half hours!

The pre COVID timetable had coaches sitting at Bedford for 20 minutes to catch up time anyway.

Ironically, changing buses might 'feel' faster!

 

[mwmbwls]

I am surprised at the choice of a split of services at Bedford - a more rational split service would be Cambridge to Milton Keynes Station and Oxford to Milton Keynes Interchange. The first route would compensate for the lack of a direct EWR connection between Milton Keynes and Cambridge - whilst the latter would maintain access from the National Express Coach Terminal to Oxford. I don't know how badly National Express has been hit by COVID19 social distancing but when I used to use the coach there was always a fair amount of interchange between the coach and the bus.

 

[Ianno87]

But the X5 doesn't stop in the covered section of the bus station, instead it waits at some dingy bus stops outside. As I said, Stagecoach have just lost the student trade and it wouldn't surprise me if there weren't service cuts in the near future.

Students don't care as long as it's cheap.

I am surprised at the choice of a split of services at Bedford - a more rational split service would be Cambridge to Milton Keynes Station and Oxford to Milton Keynes Interchange. The first route would compensate for the lack of a direct EWR connection between Milton Keynes and Cambridge - whilst the latter would maintain access from the National Express Coach Terminal to Oxford. I don't know how badly National Express has been hit by COVID19 social distancing but when I used to use the coach there was always a fair amount of interchange between the coach and the bus.

Bedford is where the depot is.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'm convinced end-to-end traffic is very much the minority, and very concentrated at certain times (Friday / Sunday).

I would agree. There is mostly a significant passenger turnover at Bedford.

 

[markymark2000]

Bedford is where the depot is.

That means nothing. Buses run dead to Milton Keynes for the 99 so it's doable here.

I can support what Mwmbwls says as it does make sense. NatEx do sell tickets for the X5 and so it would make sense to accommodate as many of those passengers journeys as possible. The only flaw that I can see is that you risk ending up with double frequency between Bedford and Milton Keynes (is there the patronage to support this?) or you end up having the X5 run half hourly to MKC and hourly extension to Bedford and the 905 half hourly to Bedford and then hourly extended to MKC which could cause confusion for passengers over journey times and ticket validity.

 

[Ianno87]

That means nothing. Buses run dead to Milton Keynes for the 99 so it's doable here.

I can support what Mwmbwls says as it does make sense. NatEx do sell tickets for the X5 and so it would make sense to accommodate as many of those passengers journeys as possible. The only flaw that I can see is that you risk ending up with double frequency between Bedford and Milton Keynes (is there the patronage to support this?) or you end up having the X5 run half hourly to MKC and hourly extension to Bedford and the 905 half hourly to Bedford and then hourly extended to MKC which could cause confusion for passengers over journey times and ticket validity.

Presumably it's financially worthwhile for the 99*, whereas for the 905/X5 it isn't, with alot of "dead" driver mileage or duplication of frequency.


*I recall it certainly used to have a longish layover at MK to permit the driver to take breaks, so no need for him/her to go back to Bedford for a mid-shift break.

 

[Bletchleyite]

*I recall it certainly used to have a longish layover at MK to permit the driver to take breaks, so no need for him/her to go back to Bedford for a mid-shift break.

It was 50-odd minutes which meant you often saw two there at once. I thought the reason was to ensure that it was punctual because of motorway delays, being an airport service where that is important. Though admittedly its usage is mainly non-airport.

 

[Deerfold]

That means nothing. Buses run dead to Milton Keynes for the 99 so it's doable here.

I can support what Mwmbwls says as it does make sense. NatEx do sell tickets for the X5 and so it would make sense to accommodate as many of those passengers journeys as possible. The only flaw that I can see is that you risk ending up with double frequency between Bedford and Milton Keynes (is there the patronage to support this?) or you end up having the X5 run half hourly to MKC and hourly extension to Bedford and the 905 half hourly to Bedford and then hourly extended to MKC which could cause confusion for passengers over journey times and ticket validity.

Before the X5 there was 1 bus an hour between Bedford and Milton Keynes (via a slower route).

 

[Bletchleyite]

Before the X5 there was 1 bus an hour between Bedford and Milton Keynes (via a slower route).

There still is I think (via Cranfield). You can also travel by train via Bletchley though connections are typically quite poor.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I would agree. There is mostly a significant passenger turnover at Bedford.

In my limited experience, Bedford is the most logical as there's little cross-town traffic. Also, given that Bedford is the home depot, it makes sense as well.

Think it makes a lot of sense operationally. The A34 can be hideous between the M40 and Oxford (been stuck in it too many times myself) so imagine how late vehicles are by the time they reach Bicester. Even if there's recovery time at MK, it can have a knock on effect on such a route.

Fair point about the Bedford bus station. In this respect, if the routes are terminating at Bedford, perhaps a relocation to the main building rather than the roadside stops would make more sense.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Fair point about the Bedford bus station. In this respect, if the routes are terminating at Bedford, perhaps a relocation to the main building rather than the roadside stops would make more sense.

The X5 doesn't use the roadside stops, but a set parallel to them closer into the bus station. But I do see your point, it used to use the end bay at the car park end (I forget which way round the numbering is) so I don't see why it couldn't again, unless there's an issue with the length of the newer coaches.

Yes, punctuality is utterly dire. The frequency tends to be roughly maintained, but the actual vehicles are often all over the place. You also get a driver change at Bedford. And TBH if you're going all the way, a stop off for a walk around and a quick wee (if you dislike coach toilets) is probably quite welcome.

I suspect it has all just fitted together - improved punctuality, the Cambourne contract meaning there wouldn't be enough coaches to go that way (and it may mandate low floor?), the 99 needing new coaches?

 

[mwmbwls]

Sorry - I made tacit assumptions that I did not explain. I assumed that the western sector of the route from Oxford to Milton Keynes Interchange would operate from Stagecoach's Oxford Depot and that the eastern sector from Milton Keynes Railway Station to Cambridge would operate with the proposed double deck vehicles from Stagecoach's Bedford Depot. The Overlap would be the section from Milton Keynes Station to Milton Keynes Interchange. I also assumed through ticketing would remain an option - although if everything goes contactless I am not quite sure how.

 

[Ianno87]

Sorry - I made tacit assumptions that I did not explain. I assumed that the western sector of the route from Oxford to Milton Keynes Interchange would operate from Stagecoach's Oxford Depot and that the eastern sector from Milton Keynes Railway Station to Cambridge would operate with the proposed double deck vehicles from Stagecoach's Bedford Depot. The Overlap would be the section from Milton Keynes Station to Milton Keynes Interchange. I also assumed through ticketing would remain an option - although if everything goes contactless I am not quite sure how.

For Oxford-MK/Bedford, operating the route from the Bedford end makes far more commercial sense, as the demand for early arrivals into / late departures from Oxford is far more significant than for Bedford.

Coaches leave Bedford for both ends as early as 04xx to get early arrivals into both Cambridge and Oxford, and last buses get back to Bedford well after midnight.

If it were operated from Oxford, then you'd either have a practically 24 hour service, or the early/late Oxford services would need to be dropped.

The X5 doesn't use the roadside stops, but a set parallel to them closer into the bus station. But I do see your point, it used to use the end bay at the car park end (I forget which way round the numbering is) so I don't see why it couldn't again, unless there's an issue with the length of the newer coaches.

Yes, punctuality is utterly dire. The frequency tends to be roughly maintained, but the actual vehicles are often all over the place. You also get a driver change at Bedford. And TBH if you're going all the way, a stop off for a walk around and a quick wee (if you dislike coach toilets) is probably quite welcome.

I suspect it has all just fitted together - improved punctuality, the Cambourne contract meaning there wouldn't be enough coaches to go that way (and it may mandate low floor?), the 99 needing new coaches?

Cambridge end is almost certainly capacity related for the shift to double deckers. Pre-Covid, peak Coaches would routinely be full, before considering adding on demand for North Cambridge too.


Maybe also a side line in keeping "Quality" coaches on the Oxford end to compete with EWR's offer?