Standard class and working on a laptop in airline seating.

[S-Bahn]

Morning!

On my last journey to London on an IET, I noticed that everyone in standard class who was trying to do some work on their laptop was at a table seat. In many cases two people would sit diagonally opposite each other, essentially sharing the table 50/50.

The new IET's in particular seem to have made allowances in their airline seating for people to use laptops on the pull down table, but this didn't appear to be utilised by passengers - probably an old habit from the HST days

Questions are: (thinking primarily of Inter-City type services and people not going first class due to punitive premium on some routes and some employers ban 1st on expenses).

1. How many other trains on the UK network provide adequate space in airline seating for someone to work on a standard 15.6" laptop

2. Should laptop work-space be a significant factor in future refurbishments/new orders of rolling stock

3. Is the ability to work on the train a significant USP for the TOC's?

 

[AM9]

One thing it isn't is a reason for the other two quarters not to be used for whatever the passengers sitting there wan't to do. That includes reading a newspaper and eating and drinking.

 

[Bletchleyite]

4. Should businesses provide laptops of a size suitable for working on a train, e.g. 11" ones? 15.6" laptops are almost never used by business - they are mostly budget home machines and high-spec gaming laptops, but 13-14" is common and too large for such use.

 

[47271]

I travel thousands of miles a year by rail, all of it for work, and work space is a major thing for me.

To answer your first question, I don't get on with airline seats at all, the problem isn't just the laptop but where to put a notepad, pen etc, things keep falling off the little tray tables, and would much prefer to work around three other people at a proper table. I completely agree with @AM9 that this shouldn't be done in a way that disadvantages other users of that table. There's quite a lot of rude selfish laptop use about.

The IETs are massively better than GWR HSTs in terms of what I'm provided with, but it's frustrating to reflect that Standard Class coaches built 40 or 50 years ago were better set up with proper tables in their original configurations than even the best of what we have now.

The very worst long distance stock was the GWR HST in its final form, something that we're now suffering in Scotland until, or if, the refurbs are completed.

As far as your second two questions are concerned, I think that operators' attitudes towards those trying to work onboard is better than it was 10 or 15 years ago, but meeting those needs is always a balancing act with trying to cram in as many people as possible.

 

[jimm]

The IETs are massively better than GWR HSTs in terms of what I'm provided with, but it's frustrating to reflect that Standard Class coaches built 40 or 50 years ago were better set up with proper tables in their original configurations than even the best of what we have now..

If we were still building rolling stock laid out like a Mk1, Mk2 or early Mk3, a lot of people would not have a seat to sit in nowadays, never mind be complaining about the size of the tables. You would struggle to get four laptops, notepads, mobile phones, drinks, etc, on to a Mk1 or Mk2 table anyway, even if people were not being selfish about use of the space.

It is indeed a balancing act and most passengers would rather have a seat to sit in, above any other consideration. No wonder with the number of people using trains these days, compared with the 1970s.

 

[xotGD]

Trying to use a laptop in an airline seat is awful. I usually end up in some contorted position giving me a bad back.

I have not been on an Azuma yet, but if the airline seats are configured to facilitate laptop use then this is welcome news.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The upright seats and good spacing certainly helps.

 

[AM9]

Standard seats are there for passengers to travel. Until all trains that the stock in question runs as have adequate seating for current and some expected growth, acheive that capacity should take priority above acommodation dedicated to specific purposes. Providing enhanced facilities for no additional fare for one privileged group should not be at the cost to others.

 

[duffield]

Standard seats are there for passengers to travel. Until all trains that the stock in question runs as have adequate seating for current and some expected growth, acheive that capacity should take priority above acommodation dedicated to specific purposes. Providing enhanced facilities for no additional fare for one privileged group should not be at the cost of others.

Yes, if your company expects you to work 'properly' (as opposed to a little light emailing) they *should* pay for you to travel 1st class - they should think of it as renting a little extra office space.

 

[edwin_m]

Also not been on an Azuma but I've had no success in using a laptop on any face-to-back seat other than Eurostar (and I've used most types of train over the years). Eurostar has enough room between the face to back seats to use the laptop but conversely the tables are too narrow to do so on the table seats (this is in Standard).

My current laptop is 15.6" screen, as I needed a more powerful one for some work I was doing a couple of years ago, but had somewhat smaller ones before and will do so again when mine is due for replacement.

Standard seats are there for passengers to travel. Until all trains that the stock in question runs as have adequate seating for current and some expected growth, acheive that capacity should take priority above acommodation dedicated to specific purposes. Providing enhanced facilities for no additional fare for one privileged group should not be at the cost of others.

The ability to use a laptop on the train is, or ought to be, an important selling point for business people. It means many can use their time usefully which ought to be able to justify going by train even if it's somewhat more costly than driving or flying. In principle it's might be fair to pay a modest amount extra for that facility, but the trouble is firstly that many corporate travel policies require the absolute cheapest ticket, and second that there have been attempts in the past to create an intermediate between First and Standard and none of them have worked.

 

[47271]

Yes, if your company expects you to work 'properly' (as opposed to a little light emailing) they *should* pay for you to travel 1st class - they should think of it as renting a little extra office space.

Good luck with that if you work in the public sector.

 

[edwin_m]

Yes, if your company expects you to work 'properly' (as opposed to a little light emailing) they *should* pay for you to travel 1st class - they should think of it as renting a little extra office space.

I can work quite happily in a table seat in Standard, even opposite someone else with a laptop, and with the huge fare difference if I could only do so in First then I'd be using the train a lot less.

 

[AM9]

Exactly, normal service rail is not a 'Regus on wheels' for opportunist employers, (including the self-employed).

 

[edwin_m]

Exactly, normal service rail is not a 'Regus on wheels' for opportunist employers, (including the self-employed).

You must know of some very good fares if you think working on a train is cheaper than working in an office or indeed at home.

 

[Ianno87]

Of fleets I travel on regularly, I find airline seats useful for laptops on:
379
387
IETs
(Just about) on LNER Mk4s and 22xs

I find them not useful on:
365s
700s
170s
390s

My stated company policy is that you must use a laptop at table seats only.

 

[haggishunter]

It’s on of the problems I’ve got with the ScotRail 170s, you struggle to fit a coffee and kitkat on the seat back tables!

The Inverness based 158s win for laptop use with the small wire pullout allowing bigger machines to be used. The 156s refurbished with the ironing board seats I can comfortably use a 13” MacBook on the seat back tables. The old 156 airline seats were worse than the 170s.

Both the onboard WiFi and mobile reception seems better on 156s and 158s than 170s. I also note Virgin WiFi and 3/4G reception on the WCML is worse than the WHL - what gives!

 

[py_megapixel]

Tried to use a laptop on a class 221 today. I don't usually have any need to use laptops while travelling but I wanted to try it out.
My laptop is a relatively compact 14 inch model and there was enough space to rest it on my comfortably on my lap, but the shape of the seat meant that it was not possible to rest it on the fold-down table.

I do not believe that making provisions for 15.6" laptops is sensible. This is an unusually big laptop size, and frankly is likely to intrude into the space of other passengers, even if it does fit. Given that some fleets still seem unable to accommodate people with lots of luggage or even long legs, I think those are a higher priority.

I also travelled on a Turbostar (didn't get the TOPS number and I don't know them well enough to tell classes of them apart otherwise) but the carriage was too crowded to get a laptop out. To avoid overcrowding another passenger's space, I will only get a laptop out if there is nobody sat next to me, or if I am at a table seat.

 

[ValleyLines142]

I've got a Macbook Pro, and trying to use it on a GWR HST on Tuesday did not work.

I will opt for a table. Thankfully the IETs have many more tables compared to a HST.

I noticed the other day that refurbished GWR 158s have two seats at a table but in standard airline configuration, similar to what you find in first class trains. This was great, as it meant I could stretch my legs out whilst doing my uni work as there was obviously nobody sat opposite me. We need more units with this seating arrangement. It's very welcoming.

 

[py_megapixel]

I noticed the other day that refurbished GWR 158s have two seats at a table but in standard airline configuration, similar to what you find in first class trains. This was great, as it meant I could stretch my legs out whilst doing my uni work as there was obviously nobody sat opposite me. We need more units with this seating arrangement. It's very welcoming.

Do you mean that there are no seats on one side of the table?

 

[xotGD]

My stated company policy is that you must use a laptop at table seats only.

I like the sound of that policy. I think I'll suggest it at my workplace.

 

[StuartH]

Just get a chromebook for travelling. Hardly weighs anything alongside my regular laptop.

 

[michaelh]

When my wife and I travel, we always avoid tables -even if they are free when we join the train. We don't want to be bullied by people sitting opposite and forcing us away, so that they can use the table as their office with laptops spread out and interminable phone conversations (even in the quiet carriage).

 

[S-Bahn]

As an interesting anecdote, I was on a HST about 2 years ago and there were 4 suits having a business meeting around a table with their laptops, whilst I was sat adjacent reading some reports on my laptop.

After arriving in Paddington 2 hours later, I was still the none the wiser what sector they worked in or what product/service their organisation provided as they spent the whole time talking in some strange holistic, marketing, wonk-speak.

Just goes to show that meetings are the practical alternative to doing work!

 

[47271]

As an interesting anecdote, I was on a HST about 2 years ago and there were 4 suits having a business meeting around a table with their laptops, whilst I was sat adjacent reading some reports on my laptop.

After arriving in Paddington 2 hours later, I was still the none the wiser what sector they worked in or what product/service their organisation provided as they spent the whole time talking in some strange holistic, marketing, wonk-speak.

Just goes to show that meetings are the practical alternative to doing work!

Probably worked for GWR.

 

[etr221]

As an interesting anecdote, I was on a HST about 2 years ago and there were 4 suits having a business meeting around a table with their laptops, whilst I was sat adjacent reading some reports on my laptop.

After arriving in Paddington 2 hours later, I was still the none the wiser what sector they worked in or what product/service their organisation provided as they spent the whole time talking in some strange holistic, marketing, wonk-speak.

Lucky them - had they been understood, it would have been by a competitor, then able to do them down...

I am reminded of http://worldwar2headquarters.com/HTML/posters/british/careless-talk.html - which some people using mobiles need to remember

 

[S-Bahn]

Lucky them - had they been understood, it would have been by a competitor, then able to do them down...

I am reminded of http://worldwar2headquarters.com/HTML/posters/british/careless-talk.html - which some people using mobiles need to remember

 

[ValleyLines142]

Do you mean that there are no seats on one side of the table?

Yes..

 

[AM9]

Lucky them - had they been understood, it would have been by a competitor, then able to do them down...

I am reminded of http://worldwar2headquarters.com/HTML/posters/british/careless-talk.html - which some people using mobiles need to remember

Whilst en route to Dismaland in September 2015, in an HST to Bristol Parkway, my wife and I were opposite a table of four men. They were quite clearly discussing tactics to be deployed at a supplier meeting with MOD at Abbey Wood. We could identify their company, the product and the position that they were hoping to achieve. Quite interesting, (we both doubted whether they would have acheived their aims), - they seemed quite unaware of others in the coach. We would be concerned to hear of such commercial naïvety in our organisations.

 

[AM9]

You must know of some very good fares if you think working on a train is cheaper than working in an office or indeed at home.

I think you may have misunderstood my angle on this topic. The primary purpose of train services, (in this thread, inter-city types of services specifically), is to carry passengers, - something that many fail to do adequately. As py_megapixel says above, there are higher priorities. Configuring passenger accommodation for any particular category of them at the expense of 'normal' travellers is unreasonable*. A table is a table is a table and can be used by anybody irrespective of whether they are doing paid work, reading the paper, eating their sandwiches etc.. My comment on Regus on the move was about there being no expectation that trains are extensions of offices, unless it is expressly provided for. There is an increasing population of travellers on business with a self-entitlement attitude that if they are first at the table, they have a right to take as much space as they require. They are just passengers, like everybody else, also irrespective of the actual fare paid. Nobody has a privileged right to space provided for those in other seats. Something I always make sure of when I am travelling.
In their franchise agreements TOCs have an overriding obligation to provide service with a defined capacity. Only after that has been fully satisfied should they let the marketing departments give any special preference to certain groups of passengers.
* excluding the need to address legally defined accessibility requirements.

 

[xotGD]

In my experience it isn't the worker on their laptop who tries to claim more than their fair share of the table it is the person or couple who treat it as their dining table, with food, drink, newspapers and magazines spread all over the place.

Not quite as bad as the clowns who think it is OK to put their luggage under the table in the space where my legs and feet should be.