Star Trek Style "Turbolifts" that are also capable of horizontal travel

[SpacePhoenix]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/techno...ators-that-go-sideways-as-well-as-up-and-down

The elevators that go sideways as well as up and down

BBC Click visits a test lift shaft where they are showing off a lift that goes sideways as well as up and down.

The elevators are being developed by Thyssenkrupp.

Instead of using a steel rope, the cabin is carried by linear motors - the same technology that drives some amusements rides and high-speed trains.

Assuming that they can perfect the technology, could it have a place in modern stations with people being able to for example transfer between platforms without having to walk between escalators?

 

[nlogax]

Assuming that they can perfect the technology, could it have a place in modern stations with people being able to for example transfer between platforms without having to walk between escalators?

I imagine it's going to be a while. Tom Scott of t'YouTubes fame did a longer piece about them a couple of months back - there looks to be some very expensive technology involved. Good video..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdTsbFS4xmI&t=41s

 

[Clip]

I'm sure these(sideways at least) had already been invented and one was indeed in use at a station?

 

[DynamicSpirit]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/techno...ators-that-go-sideways-as-well-as-up-and-down



Assuming that they can perfect the technology, could it have a place in modern stations with people being able to for example transfer between platforms without having to walk between escalators?

It's still at an early stage so anything I or anyone else says is probably guesswork at the moment. However, I don't think using them to save people walking is very likely. Just thinking about the amount of space that you'd lose from a concourse in order to build a horizontal lift to move people across it, and the relatively small number of people the lift could take at any one time, it's probably a non-starter at most stations in terms of space. Besides, if you really want to save people walking, you can already do that much more effectively with horizontal escalators (like the one connecting the Jubilee and Northern/Bakerloo lines at Waterloo).

Possibly it might be more useful at airports - because the distances people have to walk are often much longer, so even an escalator can end up very slow, so there could be significant time-saving benefits in - for example - being able to take people to departure lounges in horizontal elevators.

Where I could imagine this kind of lift being useful at some stations is for increasing the capacity of conventional lifts that go up and down; If you build a shaft that's wide enough for two lifts side by side, then with a conventional lift you can only put in two lifts. But with lifts that move horizontally, you could fit many more lifts into the same sized shaft, with the lifts moving horizontally to avoid each other. And that means much more capacity in terms of moving more people per minute. Even that however would probably only be justified at the busiest stations, and only then if there is some reason why escalators can't be fitted. Perhaps it would be more likely at some London underground stations rather than national rail?

 

[HSTEd]

Well it wouldn't necessarily take up space on the concourse, since it could go up and over....

 

[Feathers44]

Sirius Cybernetics Corporation 'Happy Vertical People Transporters' anyone?

(They experimented with going sideways before sulking in basements I believe - with thanks to Douglas Adams)

 

[broadgage]

I cant foresee this on UK railways for some time. Network rail have not yet fully mastered conventional lifts that just move vertically, judging by the number of breakdowns and the time taken to rectify them.

In Germany they already have several lifts that move vertically up from a rail platform and then along a bridge and then down to another platform or to the car park.
This uses a different technology to that described above. At each end is a conventional lift but without doors. This lift carries a small battery operated tram car that runs automatically along the bridge and into the lift car the other end.
The passenger calls the lift like any other, when it arrives the doors protecting the lift shaft open in unison with door of the tram car and the passenger then enter. The lift shaft doors then close to stop people on the platform falling into the shaft, and the tram car doors shut and lock to protect those within.
The lift then ascends, and the tram car drives out of the lift and along the bridge and into the second lift. There no lift shaft doors at the upper level, none are needed as no public access is possible to this area.
The second lift then descends, and the shaft doors and the tram car doors open.
All automatic.

 

[MarkyT]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/techno...ators-that-go-sideways-as-well-as-up-and-down

Assuming that they can perfect the technology, could it have a place in modern stations with people being able to for example transfer between platforms without having to walk between escalators?

Various kinds of horizontal movement systems could be used to link large spread out terminal complexes (thinking: Old Oak Common, St Pancras-Euston), just like at airports where travelators and automated people movers are utilised routinely to link terminals with each other and satellite gates, but these up-down-sideways contraptions appear very complex and expensive for a relatively small cabin. Their primary purpose would seem to be to squeeze more capacity out of vertical shafts in large buildings by directionalising each shaft and using the ability to make short sideways movements to allow transfer between shafts. Thus each shaft could carry many cabins following each other in the same direction rather than being limited to the single car per shaft of the traditional cable-hauled paradigm. This is a rational response to the problem that, as buildings become ever taller, the proportion of floor space taken up by the multiple shafts required to link every floor to the ground with sufficient capacity increases dramatically. Some very tall buildings require users to change lifts en route for higher storeys due to there simply being insufficient space for the required plethora of direct shafts in traditional operation, or simply that the length of cable required for full height haulage would be too long for the strength of the material used. With linear motors instead of cables, the height limitations go away and with the switching technology, stopping places could also be situated off line from the main shaft to allow expresses to overtake stoppers. In stations, simple lifts covering the equivalent of one or two storeys are used for vertical movement to help less able and encumbered people with the most difficult part of their transfers, i.e the vertical bits, while they can usually make the relatively short level transfer between lifts via bridge or subway with little difficulty. While I won't discount the technology entirely (especially for deep underground applications) I can't see the distances involved at most surface stations being sufficient to warrant the complexity and expense.

Of course nothing is ever entirely new . . .
https://youtu.be/A739p5HkRZ8

 

[MarkyT]

I cant foresee this on UK railways for some time. Network rail have not yet fully mastered conventional lifts that just move vertically, judging by the number of breakdowns and the time taken to rectify them.

In Germany they already have several lifts that move vertically up from a rail platform and then along a bridge and then down to another platform or to the car park.

Have you any further reference to these please?

 

[notlob.divad]

Where I could imagine this kind of lift being useful at some stations is for increasing the capacity of conventional lifts that go up and down; If you build a shaft that's wide enough for two lifts side by side, then with a conventional lift you can only put in two lifts. But with lifts that move horizontally, you could fit many more lifts into the same sized shaft, with the lifts moving horizontally to avoid each other. And that means much more capacity in terms of moving more people per minute. Even that however would probably only be justified at the busiest stations, and only then if there is some reason why escalators can't be fitted. Perhaps it would be more likely at some London underground stations rather than national rail?

Why would you not just keep one side for up and one side for down? Oh wait we had those. They where called paternosters for a working example go to Sheffield University Arts Tower.

 

[MarkyT]

Why would you not just keep one side for up and one side for down? Oh wait we had those. They where called paternosters for a working example go to Sheffield University Arts Tower.

I think paternosters are not considered safe enough for new installations. I read they're banned for new installations in Germany and there were unsuccessful efforts to shut down some existing ones there. The new product could be an enhanced modern equivalent for multi-storey operation but for the typical 1 or 2 storey rise of station bridges or subways it wouldn't add significant capacity/frequency over conventional technology. For deep tube station lifts on the other hand, the product might offer some advantages simply because more cabins could be accommodated in the longer shafts.

 

[Mag_seven]

I think paternosters are not considered safe enough for new installations. I read they're banned for new installations in Germany and there were unsuccessful efforts to shut down some existing ones there. The new product could be an enhanced modern equivalent for multi-storey operation but for the typical 1 or 2 storey rise of station bridges or subways it wouldn't add significant capacity/frequency over conventional technology. For deep tube station lifts on the other hand, the product might offer some advantages simply because more cabins could be accommodated in the longer shafts.

Both paternosters and Turbolifts were discussed in this thread:


http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=145854

 

[Bletchleyite]

Why would you not just keep one side for up and one side for down? Oh wait we had those. They where called paternosters for a working example go to Sheffield University Arts Tower.

Even if they were considered safe enough, which they aren't, they are useless for access for anyone with any kind of disability. And for access without disabilities, modern building design would choose escalators instead as they are safer and can carry far more people.

 

[Johnnie2Sheds]

Why would you not just keep one side for up and one side for down? Oh wait we had those. They where called paternosters for a working example go to Sheffield University Arts Tower.

Yep and at Leicester Uni. too, fascinating machine. (well I am an Engineer, sorry)

 

[rebmcr]

For deep tube station lifts on the other hand, the product might offer some advantages simply because more cabins could be accommodated in the longer shafts.

Especially those where the station footprint cannot accomodate escalators (those which are currently a handful of lift shafts and an advised-against spiral staircase.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I'm sure these(sideways at least) had already been invented and one was indeed in use at a station?

I think that's at Greenford isn't it?

 

[MarkyT]

I think that's at Greenford isn't it?

That is an inclined elevator, a device sometimes known as an inclinator, next to a set of stairs and an escalator. It uses cable haulage like a small funicular railway.

 

[D365]

I imagine it's going to be a while. Tom Scott of t'YouTubes fame did a longer piece about them a couple of months back - there looks to be some very expensive technology involved. Good video..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdTsbFS4xmI&t=41s

Good shout, I was going to post a link to this myself.

I cant foresee this on UK railways for some time.

Agreed.

They where called paternosters for a working example go to Sheffield University Arts Tower.

Fantastic isn't it