Stopped by a revenue officer at the train station,says he suspected i was not going to buy a ticket.

[Killingworth]

I was not hanging about on the platform as the case maybe, was actually on my phone and on the app to purchase the ticket when the officer called my attention and immediately I showed him what I was doing on my phone. So I still don't understand the reason for being suspicious though.

Did you actually buy a ticket from TM to Cardiff before boarding the train? If you did there surely can't have been an offence. Why the zero excess was issued is beyond me!

 

[30907]

My mother for a start. Living on a branch line, nothing I said ever convinced her that she could buy a through ticket to visit me with an inter-city leg involved. Ditto Mrs L, although I have since managed to convince her.

There was a significant period (the Paytrain era, so late 60s-early 80s?) when through fares couldn't be issued to more than a handful of main line destinations.
Folk memories are long-lasting, and get passed down to the third and the fourth generation!

It is not helped by the railway being broken up into different companies, and where does it stop? Can you buy a ticket to Kyle of Lochalsh on the DLR for example, or on LU? - serious question.

The answer is no - but that's only because no fare has been set. In theory it could be!

 

[MrJeeves]

The answer is no - but that's only because no fare has been set. In theory it could be!

Well, the answer is actually yes...

You can issue a ticket from one of the London Terminal stations to Kyle of Lockalsh with a London Underground Zonal add-on, permitting a journey from LU Zone 1-X, in this case, as needed to complete the DLR/LU journey.

And, in fact, there are even fares defined for this journey by LNER so the addon system isn't needed in this case: https://www.brfares.com/!faredetail?orig=0791&dest=KYL&tkt=SSS

From​	ZONE U123* LONDN​
To​	KYLE OF LOCHALSH​
Route​	ANY PERMITTED​

 

[Ken H]

Can you point to anything that suggests that is true because it doesn’t seem very likely? I think the opposite is almost certainly true that most people would assume if you are travelling from A – C you need a ticket from A – C and wouldn’t think about buying or wouldn’t expect tickets from A – B and then B – C would be valid.

People have long memories. When they made Ilkley trains 'PayTrains' in the 70's the conductor had an Almex machine like bus conductors had. They could only issue to Ilkley line stations because they had a printed table of stations 2 number codes on the ticket. So the ticket said 07 to 01 which meant Ilkley to Leeds City (as was). Thererwas a booth inside the barriers at Leeds where tickets could be bought. The Ilkley line paytrain ticket would be excessed. I did exactly that for an Ilkley - York journey. Think the new ticket was from an excess pad.

 

[Ken H]

Sounds like the RPI recorded the OP's name and address, which is very concerning for a case of this kind.

Yes. what happens to that name and address. Stored on some database. He should write to GWR and tell them to remove his address from their database as no offence has been committed.

 

[Brissle Girl]

Yes. what happens to that name and address. Stored on some database. He should write to GWR and tell them to remove his address from their database as no offence has been committed.

For all we know GWR thinks differently, and may be preparing a case against the OP, although on the information we have there should be no case to answer.

 

[nw1]

No, but I'd expect you to understand why it might look suspicious.

But no offence has actually been committed until they board a train to Cardiff, surely, given that they did have a valid ticket from Severn Beach. Thus, until an offence has been committed, do rail staff have any right at all to take details?

 

[185143]

But no offence has actually been committed until they board a train to Cardiff, surely, given that they did have a valid ticket from Severn Beach. Thus, until an offence has been committed, do rail staff have any right at all to take details?

But when the OP boarded a train to Cardiff, they had a valid ticket, the ticket issued by the RPI which authorised them to complete their journey.

 

[AlterEgo]

But no offence has actually been committed until they board a train to Cardiff, surely, given that they did have a valid ticket from Severn Beach. Thus, until an offence has been committed, do rail staff have any right at all to take details?

It’s a been alleged in the thread that we might not have the full details.

 

[lnerazuma]

Severn beach station does not have any ticket machine and severn beach line is a pay on board route, no offense has been committed even the OP didn't have any valid ticket prior arriving temple meads as he/she could pay at the first opportunity (temple meads ticket office/through apps when there's is data signal back in Bristol city center)

 

[Haywain]

Severn beach station does not have any ticket machine and severn beach line is a pay on board route, no offense has been committed even the OP didn't have any valid ticket prior arriving temple meads as he/she could pay at the first opportunity (temple meads ticket office/through apps when there's is data signal back in Bristol city center)

Would the inspector have known that the OP had travelled from Severn Beach?

 

[30907]

Would the inspector have known that the OP had travelled from Severn Beach?

Pass, but the OP says they had a ticket from Severn Beach and presumably told the inspector.

 

[swt_passenger]

Pass, but the OP says they had a ticket from Severn Beach and presumably told the inspector.

It was on his phone, (held in the TfW App), according to one of the early replies.

 

[farleigh]

Would the inspector have known that the OP had travelled from Severn Beach?

If he had asked politely he could have found out

 

[1955LR]

" officers approached me and asked where am going to and if I have a ticket, I told him I was going to Cardiff Central and am coming from severn beach, and am about getting ticket also to Cardiff Central and I have a valid ticket from severn beach to Bristol temple mead which is the last stop of the train I took from severn beach. He requested for my name, address, date of birth while recording the conversation, he also stated that this is happening because he suspected I wasn't going to buy a ticket."

I believe the Officer thought the poster was only buying a ticket to Cardiff, because he had approached and did not believe the explanation given. The OP stated Cardiff central was the destination & that has stuck in the Officers mind . I

 

[Benjwri]

I believe the Officer thought the poster was only buying a ticket to Cardiff, because he had approached and did not believe the explanation given. The OP stated Cardiff central was the destination & that has stuck in the Officers mind . I

The RPI was most definitely aware of the journey, the zero fare excess was issued from Severn Beach to Cardiff

 

[Msq71423]

On the subject of passengers not being aware they can buy through tickets to their destination, I explain this to at least 3 or 4 passengers every week at my station (usually foreign tourists or very occasional elderley travellers). I guess multiplied across the country there is perhaps a not insignificant number of passengers who may not realise through tickets can be bought.

 

[Killingworth]

On the subject of passengers not being aware they can buy through tickets to their destination, I explain this to at least 3 or 4 passengers every week at my station (usually foreign tourists or very occasional elderley travellers). I guess multiplied across the country there is perhaps a not insignificant number of passengers who may not realise through tickets can be bought.

Northern TVMs will sell me tickets to either Wick or Penzance if I have the stamina to do it from the suburbs of Sheffield. Wick in a day, return fare same price as single.

 

[RPI]

Severn beach station does not have any ticket machine and severn beach line is a pay on board route, no offense has been committed even the OP didn't have any valid ticket prior arriving temple meads as he/she could pay at the first opportunity (temple meads ticket office/through apps when there's is data signal back in Bristol city center)

Although drifting off topic, the Severn Beach line is not a "buy on board" line, hasn't been since January 2023, though as you say, Severn Beach it self has no facilities. Other stations on the line do have have facilities and are PF stations.

 

[fandroid]

Northern TVMs will sell me tickets to either Wick or Penzance if I have the stamina to do it from the suburbs of Sheffield. Wick in a day, return fare same price as single.

You are not the OP, so this observation is irrelevant. The post you replied to is actual experience of dealing with passengers who are not aware that through tickets can be bought. It's the passenger's awareness that is the point, not the functionality of TVMs. Anyway, note that Severn Beach station has no TVMs

 

[flythetube]

Although drifting off topic, the Severn Beach line is not a "buy on board" line, hasn't been since January 2023, though as you say, Severn Beach it self has no facilities. Other stations on the line do have have facilities and are PF stations.

Guards will sell tickets on board this branch as will roving Ticket Examiners.

Tickets will be sold first for those travelling between Temple Meads and stations inbetween to Clifton Down and then a second sweep will take place selling tickets for those travelling to Stations between Clifton Down / Avonmouth & Severn Beach.

Clifton Down being the fare change point from £1.60 and fares beyond £2.00

This is done to avoid wasting time changing the destination for each ticket sale, the downside to this is that Clifton Down and Severn Beach will have an incorrect and high amount of journeys recorded as ending there when in fact they haven’t so Annual
station usage figures published by ORR will be skewed!!!!

This branch is subsidised by the local authority hence the cheap fares that even some are reluctant to pay!!!!

 

[RPI]

Guards will sell tickets on board this branch as will roving Ticket Examiners.

Tickets will be sold first for those travelling between Temple Meads and stations inbetween to Clifton Down and then a second sweep will take place selling tickets for those travelling to Stations between Clifton Down / Avonmouth & Severn Beach.

Clifton Down being the fare change point from £1.60 and fares beyond £2.00

This is done to avoid wasting time changing the destination for each ticket sale, the downside to this is that Clifton Down and Severn Beach will have an incorrect and high amount of journeys recorded as ending there when in fact they haven’t so Annual
station usage figures published by ORR will be skewed!!!!

This branch is subsidised by the local authority hence the cheap fares that even some are reluctant to pay!!!!

I'm well aware of the rules regarding ticket purchases on GWR services (including the Severn Beach line), and if you go the the GWR penalty fare map available on their website, you'll see that several stations between Bristol Temple Meads and Severn Beach are Penalty Fare stations, so if an RPI is working the train, a Penalty Fare can be issued if appropriate, however, we're drifting off topic.

 

[father_jack]

Something that maybe is being missed here- isn't there an obligation for a passenger to hold a ticket or tickets for the entire journey they intend to make...

Moderator note: any further topic on this matter can be debated at the following thread:

Is it an offence to buy tickets on a pay as you go basis, rather than all in one, at the start of the journey?

Moderator note: Split from https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/stopped-by-a-revenue-officer-at-the-train-station-says-he-suspected-i-was-not-going-to-buy-a-ticket.260913/ Isn't there an obligation for a passenger to hold a ticket or tickets for the entire journey they intend to make ? And if...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[island]

I can't see any details of any offence having been committed based on the (limited) details we've been given.

OP began their journey at a station without ticketing facilities, so no Railway Byelaw offence can stick. They had not travelled or attempted to travel beyond their destination at the point they were stopped, so no Regulation of Railways or Railway Clauses Consolidation Act offence had been committed either. It's not an offence to think about not buying a ticket.

 

[Falcon1200]

I can't see any details of any offence having been committed based on the (limited) details we've been given.

Neither can I, but the question which occurs to me is why the Revenue Inspector approached and questioned the OP in the first place; How could they know what ticket(s) the OP did or did not have, or where they were travelling to, unless perhaps they were on the same inward train as the OP?

 

[island]

Neither can I, but the question which occurs to me is why the Revenue Inspector approached and questioned the OP in the first place; How could they know what ticket(s) the OP did or did not have, or where they were travelling to, unless perhaps they were on the same inward train as the OP?

The RPI's equivalent of "copper's nose", perhaps – a passenger acting oddly.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The RPI's equivalent of "copper's nose", perhaps – a passenger acting oddly.

It's not entirely unknown for me to faff a bit getting my e-ticket up on my phone such that I go and stand at the side of the gateline while I do so in order not to cause a blockage. I have always had the feeling of being in receipt of "beady eyes" from the gateline staff (i.e. "is he buying a ticket now") while doing so. I'd be very surprised were they *not* watching for that sort of thing.

 

[Starmill]

It's not entirely unknown for me to faff a bit getting my e-ticket up on my phone such that I go and stand at the side of the gateline while I do so in order not to cause a blockage. I have always had the feeling of being in receipt of "beady eyes" from the gateline staff (i.e. "is he buying a ticket now") while doing so. I'd be very surprised were they *not* watching for that sort of thing.

I would. If they think people are doing that then technology is the obvious way to attempt to uncover it. Trying to uncover it directly in someone's face by peeking over at their phone screen is a) hilariously ineffective and b) very likely to invite conflict. Surely nobody in their right mind could expect what you call giving "beady eyes" to be effective?

Neither can I, but the question which occurs to me is why the Revenue Inspector approached and questioned the OP in the first place; How could they know what ticket(s) the OP did or did not have, or where they were travelling to, unless perhaps they were on the same inward train as the OP?

They would have been entitled to ask the customer to show them their ticket. If they did and the response was to just show the ticket already held, that should at that point have been the end of the matter.

 

[island]

They would have been entitled to ask the customer to show them their ticket. If they did and the response was to just show the ticket already held, that should at that point have been the end of the matter.

Well, I suppose it would be reasonable for the officer upon seeing that the passenger had arrived at their destination to show the passenger to the exit (or to the ticket office if the passenger expressed an interest in travelling elsewhere) but otherwise yes.

 

[Benjwri]

Neither can I, but the question which occurs to me is why the Revenue Inspector approached and questioned the OP in the first place; How could they know what ticket(s) the OP did or did not have, or where they were travelling to, unless perhaps they were on the same inward train as the OP?

With no other details I would suggest they noticed someone standing near a gateline searching for a ticket as they were passing, clearly a suspicious action. It is worth saying though there isn't a 'drinks vendor' as the OP describes near a gateline at Bristol, so it's unlikely this happened at a gateline.

What I would question is that the excess posted by the OP was issued at 10:27, and the last train from Severn beach arrived at 9:43, a long time before this. Is the OP sure they didn't board a train to Cardiff, and either meet the RPI before it left or en route? There was a departure at 10:03, and a departure at 10:28, which arrived early at 10:16. Whether an offence was committed is another matter, but is it possible the OP was attempting to board this departure before buying the ticket, or got back off the train?