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Storm Pia disruption - Thursday 21st December 2023

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robbeech

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To be fair everyone's going to get their fare back!
You say that, but maybe in a few days we’ll benefit from a thread titled “Interesting rejections for Delay Repay from the effects of Storm Pia”

LNER for one have been sticking to their guns and recommending people stick to their travel plans (where possible and take the next train where necessary) rather than the early (but likely justified) do not travel warning the other week. Different types of weather I guess.

I was looking forward to the 1812 from Doncaster (after originally wanting the 1110) but alas, now cancelled. Trying for the 2011 now else it will be game over for me and a return home for the second time today.
 
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Bald Rick

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What was the actual cause then? The blockage does appear to have been there.

Driver said he/she had brought the wires down and they were on top of the train.

They weren’t.

There are bits of tree and other obstructions all over the network though.
 

londonmidland

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No trains between Stockport and Macclesfield due to a tree on fire as it has come in contact with the OLE in the Prestbury area.
 

Bletchleyite

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Driver said he/she had brought the wires down and they were on top of the train.

They weren’t.

Oh, so there was nothing actually wrong? Crikey. Wonder what caused the driver to think that. I guess it wasn't easy to take a look as it was on the up fast, but still!

I was sitting next to the cab of the unit stuck at Cheddington and the driver reported a line voltage issue (I could hear) shortly before the power went out though.
 
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Skiddaw

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Goodness, I'm so glad I was travelling from Penrith to Euston last Thursday rather than this!
 

MikeWM

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Should have a firm 'do no travel' warning for these strong storms, as something always goes wrong on the main west or east coast line (and others).

There wasn't anything in the forecast today that implied anything more than a bit of a breezy day for the Midlands and South of England, if you issued 'do not travel' every time that happened you'd be doing it every couple of weeks.

We *were* in a yellow warning area but there's been nothing remarkable about the weather here (Ely) today at all, it's just a little bit gusty. Even Ely-Kings Lynn appears to be running fine, and that's one of the first things that falls over every time there is bad weather.
 

Howardh

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Oh, so there was nothing actually wrong? Crikey. Wonder what caused the driver to think that. I guess it wasn't easy to take a look as it was on the up fast, but still!

I was sitting next to the cab of the unit stuck at Cheddington and the driver reported a line voltage issue (I could hear) shortly before the power went out though.
Is it possible for a driver to "feel" that something's wrong, for example if something had got lodged on the cable, like a plastic bag, I imagine although it wouldn't necessarily bring the line down, it would cause quite a thud when in contact, and maybe a sudden short loss of power, and the driver feel it - so to be safe they draw to a halt?

And if so, could he evacuate the cab to have a look, presumably after signals have stopped oncoming trains, and even so he wouldn't know if the pantograph or line was damaged, so engineers would have to be brought in??
 

BRX

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I could be wrong, but it had been on the road for around 4.5 hours by that point, is it a break for the driver (was stopped for 40 minutes before then proceeding through the UF at Doncaster, as against a platform). 1S95, having left over 3.5 hours later was nothing like that in terms of driver hours. Unlike LNER they couldn't swap drivers. I noticed a few of the earlier disrupted trains were terminated at Doncaster (including one which returned empty to London). Again, I wonder if driving time had kicked in

Yes maybe. We also overtook at least one LNER service, also sat just south of the station.
 

Starmill

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Oh, so there was nothing actually wrong? Crikey. Wonder what caused the driver to think that. I guess it wasn't easy to take a look as it was on the up fast, but still!

I was sitting next to the cab of the unit stuck at Cheddington and the driver reported a line voltage issue (I could hear) shortly before the power went out though.
There could have been an object which fell onto the train in the wind perhaps.
 

Horizon22

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There could have been an object which fell onto the train in the wind perhaps.

If so, you would have expected a line inspection by another unit if the status of the OHLE couldn't physically be confirmed. That being said, the ECRO (Electrical Control Room Operator) would have known if there was a tripping involved.
 

43066

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Driver said he/she had brought the wires down and they were on top of the train.

They weren’t.

There are bits of tree and other obstructions all over the network though.

Oops!

Oh, so there was nothing actually wrong? Crikey. Wonder what caused the driver to think that. I guess it wasn't easy to take a look as it was on the up fast, but still!

I was sitting next to the cab of the unit stuck at Cheddington and the driver reported a line voltage issue (I could hear) shortly before the power went out though.

There’s an emphasis on extreme caution around crew make inspections during a suspected dewirement. A driver was critically injured by being electrocuted by downed wires on the WCML a few years back. AC can jump, and damaged wires won’t immediately discharge even when the power is switched off.
 

Lost property

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There wasn't anything in the forecast today that implied anything more than a bit of a breezy day for the Midlands and South of England, if you issued 'do not travel' every time that happened you'd be doing it every couple of weeks.

We *were* in a yellow warning area but there's been nothing remarkable about the weather here (Ely) today at all, it's just a little bit gusty. Even Ely-Kings Lynn appears to be running fine, and that's one of the first things that falls over every time there is bad weather.
Actually, there was.

Whilst the Met Office have, in recent times, been known to err on the side of caution shall we say, for me, anything above 30kts is worth noting...gusts of 40 / 50 / 60 kts even more so.
 

MotCO

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Oops!



There’s an emphasis on extreme caution around crew make inspections during a suspected dewirement. A driver was critically injured by being electrocuted by downed wires on the WCML a few years back. AC can jump, and damaged wires won’t immediately discharge even when the power is switched off.

On Thameslink trains, there is a small spotlight illuminating the pantograph, presumably for a camera to view the state of the pantograph. Is there anythng similar on the 800s?
 

Samzino

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On Thameslink trains, there is a small spotlight illuminating the pantograph, presumably for a camera to view the state of the pantograph. Is there anythng similar on the 800s?
Pantograph_on_a_British_Rail_Class_800_%27Azuma%27_of_LNER_seen_from_the_main_bridge_at_Leeds_railway_station_%285th_July_2019%29.jpg

Doesn't seem like so:
Reference
-Top/ Roof of a LNER Class 800-
 
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MikeWM

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Actually, there was.

Whilst the Met Office have, in recent times, been known to err on the side of caution shall we say, for me, anything above 30kts is worth noting...gusts of 40 / 50 / 60 kts even more so.

30kts (~35mph) is nothing unusual. Once you get over 40kts (~46mph) that's when things start to fall to pieces, but there was nothing forecast over 43mph south/east of Birmingham all day, which isn't particularly unusual. (You can look back at what was forecast today from midnight onwards at https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/weather/maps-and-charts/wind-gusts-map - at some point that switches to what was actually observed, not sure when, but for now it is still showing 'forecasted').
 

BRX

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Pity the folk on 1S93, still sat outside Doncaster 4 hrs late.

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:C11451/2023-12-21/detailed

I don't really understand why it's waiting in the queue on the line into the platform given that it doesn't have a booked stop at Doncaster. Maybe they are giving up & terminating there? Meanwhile my train 1S95, the following northbound Lumo, has gone through on the fast line & overtaken it.
So what has actually happened is that we got to Newcastle & waited for 1S93 to catch us up. They've turfed all its passengers off (it's returning to KX) and told them to get on our train. So it's absolutely rammed of course, and piles of luggage everywhere.

I wonder how much of this is down to Lumo's reluctance to make a ticket acceptance agreement with LNER?

They did say at the last minute that people could get on the next transpennine/crosscountry.
 

EdChap

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Not sure what train that is, but Thameslink trains DO have a light on the roof pointing to the pantograph. I think it is on even if the pantograph is down. It is very obvious at City Thameslink Station.
 

800001

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So what has actually happened is that we got to Newcastle & waited for 1S93 to catch us up. They've turfed all its passengers off (it's returning to KX) and told them to get on our train. So it's absolutely rammed of course, and piles of luggage everywhere.

I wonder how much of this is down to Lumo's reluctance to make a ticket acceptance agreement with LNER?

They did say at the last minute that people could get on the next transpennine/crosscountry.
Not quite sure that LNER would grant acceptance when they have multiple cancellation, some trains 3-4 hours late, some of which are carrying 2-3 trains loads of there own customers on full and standing trains, why would they then allow Lumo customers to get on as well?
 

greyman42

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I could be wrong, but it had been on the road for around 4.5 hours by that point, is it a break for the driver (was stopped for 40 minutes before then proceeding through the UF at Doncaster, as against a platform). 1S95, having left over 3.5 hours later was nothing like that in terms of driver hours. Unlike LNER they couldn't swap drivers. I noticed a few of the earlier disrupted trains were terminated at Doncaster (including one which returned empty to London). Again, I wonder if driving time had kicked in
The 0900 Kings Cross to Edinburgh arrived into York at 1500 and then stood at platform until 1558 awaiting a crew which appeared to come off the late running Aberdeen to Edinburgh train. Would the drivers/crews have swapped with each other so as to get them back to their depots/stations?
 

Couru

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Not quite sure that LNER would grant acceptance when they have multiple cancellation, some trains 3-4 hours late, some of which are carrying 2-3 trains loads of there own customers on full and standing trains, why would they then allow Lumo customers to get on as well?
At risk of beating a very dead horse, if only there weren't all these companies vying for your service and instead only one...
 

island

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At risk of beating a very dead horse, if only there weren't all these companies vying for your service and instead only one...
There are only so many trains and assuming they're all full and standing, it makes no practical difference that there are multiple companies involved.
 

Couru

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There are only so many trains and assuming they're all full and standing, it makes no practical difference that there are multiple companies involved.
Very true, was referring more to the general concept of ticket acceptance across TOCs rather than specifically this (which is off topic, so let's move on)
 

BRX

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Not quite sure that LNER would grant acceptance when they have multiple cancellation, some trains 3-4 hours late, some of which are carrying 2-3 trains loads of there own customers on full and standing trains, why would they then allow Lumo customers to get on as well?
I'd have thought that in principle, when there are extreme delays, if you implement inter acceptance between all operators then you have the best chance of spreading out the load as evenly as possible.

Also I think Lumo services tend to busier at their northern ends than LNER ones, because of their stopping patterns. I may be wrong.
 

The Prisoner

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Walked into the eye of the “storm” today as was booked on the 1302 Euston to Chester. Using the power of RTT we could see it was leaving from platform 12 and sure enough a 10 car voyager was there.

At around 1245 an announcement was made saying that there was a block on all departures bar overground due to the issue with the wires.

I get issues happen, and that information is fluid during disruption, but given the amount of times this happens there really should be some sort of contingency plan. Anything really.

The station was locked to new arrivals pretty quickly and tempers were fraying as no announcements were apparently being made to the rising numbers of people waiting outside. Security guards were treating people who simply had the misfortune to need to be somewhere with the usual disdain.

The people making announcements at Euston were mumbling and inaudible.

I did catch that the announcement customers for Chester should go via Great Western from St Pancras (!). This advice was repeated several times.

Checking the X feed there were some random acceptances allowed (chiltern to Birmingham, GW Paddington to reading, XC Reading to Birmingham), but users were quick to point out that anywhere other than Birmingham (and the random Chester announcement that wasn’t on their feed) were stranded. Advice was to stay put and wait, both over the announcements and from X. Where were the other acceptances? Several asking why XC couldn’t be extended to Manchester.

Gave up around 1330 - in my experience these things take hours to fix - and got a taxi to Marylebone. Couldn’t get the 4 car 1402 to Birmingham as it was crush loaded when we arrived. Using the power of RTT we waited on platform 3 for the 1436 - watched a 6 car DVT get hauled away to the sidings to be replaced by another 4 car 168 which was instantly crush loaded and unable to pick up customers at High Wycombe and Bicester North.

It’s not Chiltern’s fault obviously, but given that they were suddenly inundated maybe the 68 & DVT or an additional 168 to attach could have been found? Customers between London and Birmingham on Chiltern were avantied out of travel this afternoon.

We are on an advance purchase ticket and on arrival at New Street was told we would be fine to use to use the 1721 TfW, which we are currently on, but to sum the day up has been set swapped from a pair of 158s to a freezing 150 at Shrewsbury.

We will get home around 4 hours and 20 late.

Things happen all the time, but can’t help wondering if maintenance budgets are being cut to cause so many infrastructure problems? The weather hasn’t been windy anywhere we’ve been today.

More importantly surely to goodness someone could work out a contingency plan for the many days where this stuff happens? Some form of premeditated plan B. Yes it won’t always work perfectly, but it’s a start.

Someone needs to remember that the customer doesn’t give a shiny about TOCs and operations- they want a service, and to be somewhere. Blanket “do not travel” recommendations are a dereliction of duty.
 

43066

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Someone needs to remember that the customer doesn’t give a shiny about TOCs and operations- they want a service, and to be somewhere. Blanket “do not travel” recommendations are a dereliction of duty.

They might not care about who operates the train. They will care about being stranded for hours, though.

It’s surely good customer service to advise your customers that they’re likely to face significant disruption, as you did today, so to use other modes, or travel on other days if at all possible.
 
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