Stratford International...very odd

[shinkansen1966]

Was in the Stratford area on Sunday and decided to check out the new "international" station. I thought you could just walk there somehow, but the station has no public access at all. *Doh*

To reach it, you have to enter Stratford Regional station and walk to platform 11, then take a shuttle bus. The shuttle operates on a self contained private road loop, for the 2 min ride to Stratford International. We only wanted to look at the station, not travel from it. We only had our pre-pay oyster cards, so the ticket man at Stratford Regional let us through the gates to plat 11 !!

We browed around the International station for about 15 minutes and in that time saw one other passenger. The staff looked bored, though they did tell me it was busy during the peak hours.

Things ought to change soon, there. The DLR extention will bring an actual public route to the station and not the current peculiar bus arrangement. In turn next year, the shopping centre will connect the station by foot to the rest of the world.

When all is complete, will it possible to walk from Stratford Regional to Stratford International ?

And do we know if Eurostars will ever stop there ? It's an international station without an international service !

 

[Zoe]

And do we know if Eurostars will ever stop there ? It's an international station without an international service !

The idea of an international station at Straford was that it would act as the London stop for Regional Eurostar services. The Regional Eurostar services are not likely to ever run and Eurostar don't want to stop trains there now due to the low level of demand and the extra journey time that would result.

 

[shinkansen1966]

Eurostar don't want to stop trains there now due to the low level of demand and the extra journey time that would result.

In which case, I fail to see why either the domestic high speed SouthEastern Railway service needs a supplement, or why Stratford International needs to be a different station.

To make the service more joined up, why not abolish the supplements on the high speed domestic service? Then treat the Stratford/Ebbsfleet/St Pancras service as any other SouthEastern train service, just using different rolling stock. Then drop the 'International' from 'Stratford International'. We'll just view the ex-international part as additional Stratford platforms which just happen to be a few 100 metres from the rest of the station via a shopping centre (when complete). Just like the connection between Waterloo Main line/East...

 

[Ibex]

Stratford International could probably be used as the terminus for Eurostar if an evacuation or major incident occured at St Pancras. I believe that used to be the arrangement with Waterloo Intl and Kensington Olympia anyway.

 

[swt_passenger]

Stratford International could probably be used as the terminus for Eurostar if an evacuation or major incident occured at St Pancras.

It could also be used as the London terminus for [any other international operator] - in fact it might need to be if Eurostar don't stop using St Pancras as a shed between their services...

 

[jon0844]

I think the supplement will be kept until after the Olympics, as all those people with a ODTC will give SET a nice load of extra cash, which I presume they keep exclusively? Easy money, given it will be promoted as the main way to get there.

Anyone would think that Stratford International was its own sovereign state or something. It might not be so bad if they charged this premium FOR the Olympic visitors, while using some of the money to discount season ticket holders (as against charging them a premium too).

 

[MCR247]

It could also be used as the London terminus for [any other international operator] - in fact it might need to be if Eurostar don't stop using St Pancras as a shed between their services...

They do have a lot of E*s in there at one time don't they for their limited services..

 

[shinkansen1966]

Anyone would think that Stratford International was its own sovereign state or something.

LOL. That's exactly what it felt like when I went there. No public access, just a shuttle bus operating on a private road between Stratford Regional platform 11 and Stratford International. DLR extention should help things, though. Do we have an opening date for the extention ?

 

[Mojo]

Went there about 17.00 on Weds last week and the bus was full and standing and there were quite a few people around, but it wasn't as busy as you'd except for that time of the day (although people in London work unusually late, so maybe it was about right).

 

[tripleseis]

The idea of an international station at Straford was that it would act as the London stop for Regional Eurostar services. The Regional Eurostar services are not likely to ever run and Eurostar don't want to stop trains there now due to the low level of demand and the extra journey time that would result.

Surely that will change once the DLR and the mall are completed. I can see Stratford International being very handy for business travelers visiting Canary Wharf (only a short ride away on the Jubilee). Hell, even tourists using the hotels in the Docklands area will find it useful.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

And do we know if Eurostars will ever stop there ? It's an international station without an international service !

Just like Birmingham Intl! Think they have to do something to get at least one Eurostar halting at either Straford or Ebbsfleet 5 or 6 times a day, sadly I think Ashford's days as International are past, though I doubt Eurostar will ever pull out completely

 

[Electrostar]

What's odd about it? If SE had started high speed services but waited until the DLR, Westfield and the surrounding parklands had been developed there would have been uproar. They opened a station and laid on a shuttle bus. Over time the station will become more popular; first with interchange to the DLR, then access to the hige Westfield (200+ shops including the largest John Lewis outside Oxford Street); the Olympics and finally with commuters living in the buildings of the Athletes' Village and subsequent builds. There are huge swathes of Stratford New Town earmarked for development over the next 20 years. Some building has been scaled back as a result of the recession but you can guarantee once things pick up developers will only be too happy to invest in an area with such incredible transport links. For once we've shown foresight and built a railway station to attract and cope with future demand. Eurostar maybe sending out negative messages but if and when the business case is right for them they'll be in there like a shot.

 

[paul1609]

In which case, I fail to see why either the domestic high speed SouthEastern Railway service needs a supplement, or why Stratford International needs to be a different station.

To make the service more joined up, why not abolish the supplements on the high speed domestic service? Then treat the Stratford/Ebbsfleet/St Pancras service as any other SouthEastern train service, just using different rolling stock. Then drop the 'International' from 'Stratford International'. We'll just view the ex-international part as additional Stratford platforms which just happen to be a few 100 metres from the rest of the station via a shopping centre (when complete). Just like the connection between Waterloo Main line/East...

I think people are under the false impression that HS1 services are underused.
This is not so the main line services are very well used, most services from Ashford are standing in the peak and probably 80 % full on average off peak. This is only 9 months after the full service commenced.

What has hit the headlines are the North Kent services where passenger numbers have been disappointing and several services have been reduced from 12 to 6 cars.

If your trains are full of premium paying passengers why would you remove the supplement, especially when its common knowledge that Southeastern is by far the most financially challenging franchise in the former NSE area?

 

[Snapper]

What's odd about it? If SE had started high speed services but waited until the DLR, Westfield and the surrounding parklands had been developed there would have been uproar. They opened a station and laid on a shuttle bus. Over time the station will become more popular; first with interchange to the DLR, then access to the hige Westfield (200+ shops including the largest John Lewis outside Oxford Street); the Olympics and finally with commuters living in the buildings of the Athletes' Village and subsequent builds. There are huge swathes of Stratford New Town earmarked for development over the next 20 years. Some building has been scaled back as a result of the recession but you can guarantee once things pick up developers will only be too happy to invest in an area with such incredible transport links. For once we've shown foresight and built a railway station to attract and cope with future demand. Eurostar maybe sending out negative messages but if and when the business case is right for them they'll be in there like a shot.

Ebbsfleet is in a similar position. It's been built for the future when the area will have grown massively due to new housing.

It's the same principle as 'Metroland'. The railway is the engineer of growth in the future.

 

[shinkansen1966]

Taken as a whole the regenerative effects of HS1 deserve to succeed linking St Pancras, Stratford and North Kent - all areas which will benefit from a makeover and improved transport links. Not sure if the high speed fare supplement is necessary.

Come back in 5 years and the land north of St Pancras/Kings Cross; Stratford and Ebbsfleet could well be thriving areas of commerce and residence. All connected by high speed trains and eurostars.

 

[Zoe]

Just like Birmingham Intl! Think they have to do something to get at least one Eurostar halting at either Straford or Ebbsfleet 5 or 6 times a day, sadly I think Ashford's days as International are past, though I doubt Eurostar will ever pull out completely

The station does however serve Birmingham International Airport. At the end of the day Eurostar is a business and not a public service, if they don't see any market in stopping at Stratford then they won't do.

 

[class395rules]

I regularly use the high speed service to ramsgate from stratford international and the train is normally always full in the evenings when i pick it up. Coming home too there is always lots of people getting on at canterbury west and ashford international so it is a popular service now. I dont really notice the supliment as i live in chelmsford essex and get a anypermited ticket which i believe works out at just a pound extra then buying a "not hs1" ticket

 

[jon0844]

I dont really notice the supliment as i live in chelmsford essex and get a anypermited ticket which i believe works out at just a pound extra then buying a "not hs1" ticket

That's great for you, but not the many people who use the service every day and DO have to pay a hefty surcharge.

 

[class395rules]

so how much is the current surcharge

 

[jon0844]

It's the same as it has always been isn't it? I am not aware of SET increasing or decreasing it.

 

[yorksrob]

I think people are under the false impression that HS1 services are underused.
This is not so the main line services are very well used, most services from Ashford are standing in the peak and probably 80 % full on average off peak. This is only 9 months after the full service commenced.

What has hit the headlines are the North Kent services where passenger numbers have been disappointing and several services have been reduced from 12 to 6 cars.

If your trains are full of premium paying passengers why would you remove the supplement, especially when its common knowledge that Southeastern is by far the most financially challenging franchise in the former NSE area?

I must admit, I've never been on HS1 during the rush hour, so it might well be very busy. I have to say though that on the off-peak and weekend journeys I've made it has often seemed to be fairly lightly loaded - particularly when compared with the semi-fast trains running via Tonbridge. Perhaps if we are to have a supplement it should be peak hour only so as to attract leisure travellers and free up space on the classic route west of Ashford.

With regards to the downgrading of Ashford from international it is probably inevitable. Seems silly though as I'd have thought it would have served as a better international railhead for Kent and Sussex than either Ebbsfleet or Stratford - which when all is said and done is a suburb of London anyway.

 

[jon0844]

They will keep charging that extra cash as long as they're allowed to, or until the Olympics are over. It's too much cash to give up. So what if the trains are lightly loaded now?

People down there must be used to being ripped off, given how the Dartford crossing was supposed to be made free after a certain time!

 

[yorksrob]

They will keep charging that extra cash as long as they're allowed to, or until the Olympics are over. It's too much cash to give up.

People down there must be used to being ripped off, given how the Dartford crossing was supposed to be made free after a certain time!

Ha ha, someone ought to remind them of that!

 

[starrymarkb]

It's the same as it has always been isn't it? I am not aware of SET increasing or decreasing it.

IIRC the premium is set by the DfT....

 

[d1015fan]

at the moment stratford international has one use before the olympics good for riding the javelins between there and st pancreas international. The bus is a bit of a hassle but worth doing as that route prob won't be there when its all finished

 

[Electrostar]

Westfield opens before the Olympics so I expect Stratford International to get some use then by shoppers taking either the SE High Speed services or the DLR.

 

[Fred26]

When does the DLR open? That's one of my most anticipated improvements.

 

[Class377/5]

Was in the Stratford area on Sunday and decided to check out the new "international" station. I thought you could just walk there somehow, but the station has no public access at all. *Doh*

To reach it, you have to enter Stratford Regional station and walk to platform 11, then take a shuttle bus. The shuttle operates on a self contained private road loop, for the 2 min ride to Stratford International. We only wanted to look at the station, not travel from it. We only had our pre-pay oyster cards, so the ticket man at Stratford Regional let us through the gates to plat 11 !!

We browed around the International station for about 15 minutes and in that time saw one other passenger. The staff looked bored, though they did tell me it was busy during the peak hours.

Things ought to change soon, there. The DLR extention will bring an actual public route to the station and not the current peculiar bus arrangement. In turn next year, the shopping centre will connect the station by foot to the rest of the world.

When all is complete, will it possible to walk from Stratford Regional to Stratford International ?

And do we know if Eurostars will ever stop there ? It's an international station without an international service !

When Stratford International was being built there was no idea that the Westfield center was going to be built. At the moment the site around the station is a building site and simply not safe for people to walk around hence the bus. The private road was actually built by Westfield to allow the bus to get from the domestic to the international station. If Westfield hadn't built the station there you would have been able to walk to the station.

As for the Eurostars, well as far as I know for some reason the station was built without customs so they can't process international passengers which is the reason Eurostar doesn't want to stop there as they don't want to pay for the customs. Seems stupid that they actually built the station without but hey werider things have happened.

IIRC the premium is set by the DfT....

As for the supplement, HS1 isn't part of the national rail network, its just NR got the maintance contrcat hence the supplement. With HS1 being sold off now privately that supplement is going to say no matter what anyone says as it will be a private railway.

They shouldn't sell off HS1 but it seems common sense is out the window on this one!

LOL. That's exactly what it felt like when I went there. No public access, just a shuttle bus operating on a private road between Stratford Regional platform 11 and Stratford International. DLR extention should help things, though. Do we have an opening date for the extention ?

This may help if your interested in the DLR extension as there is a thread on here.

http://railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=32375

Currently the extension is likely to be open for Christmas because thats the deadline stated in the contract. Seems no-ones in a rush to sort it out yet!

 

[Electrostar]

I think the plan for regenerating the area now known as Stratford City always included a shopping centre linking both stations as well as housing, schools and offices. The offices have been pulled and construction of housing has been scaled back for now. The Olympic bid came later but it saved the shopping centre; Westfield has admitted construction would have been postponed had it not been for Olympic / political pressure. The travelator between both stations was also cut leaving only the DLR, journey by road or a walk through the shopping centre. John Lewis and Waitrose will be adjacent to Stratford International with a walk through the shopping centre, past other stores, to reach Marks and Spencer adjacent to the new Stratford Regional entrance.

 

[swt_passenger]

The travelator between both stations was also cut leaving only the DLR, journey by road or a walk through the shopping centre. John Lewis and Waitrose will be adjacent to Stratford International with a walk through the shopping centre, past other stores, to reach Marks and Spencer adjacent to the new Stratford Regional entrance.

I remember reading something that suggested the travelator was never a serious contender, it was a fallback idea if the DLR extension didn't happen, but they dropped it as soon as the DLR takeover of the NLL was confirmed. There was a mention of the travelator idea on TfL's website back when there was still a range of possible routes for the DLR, but all the relevant stuff seems to have gone missing...