Strike Impact on Railway Workers Compared to Other Strikers

[MadCommuter]

I presume there is less options for rail workers striking to claw back lost earnings compared to other industries? For example if bin workers strike, when they return to work, overtime might be offered to clear the backlog. Likewise with Royal Mail? Is this a fair assumption?

 

[357]

Most parts of the railway are so short staffed that people are making it back without issue by doing rest day working or overtime on top of their rostered shifts on non-strike days.

 

[43066]

I presume there is less options for rail workers striking to claw back lost earnings compared to other industries? For example if bin workers strike, when they return to work, overtime might be offered to clear the backlog. Likewise with Royal Mail? Is this a fair assumption?

The railway runs on overtime, so there are generally plenty of opportunities for those who are striking to earn the money back, often at an enhanced rate of pay. Obviously this isn’t so easy when it comes to overtime bans albeit that there will last for a finite period, so people might still be able to claw back what has been lost over the course of a year.

 

[Goldfish62]

Unite pay £70 per day strike pay to striking members, which in the industries they represent is roughly equivalent to a day's net basic pay, so no loss of earnings. I also believe that Unison offer strike pay, but I don't know how much.

 

[Fred Dinenage]

No RDW for Northern drivers, so no way to make up the lost money. Northern conductors have RDW available though.

 

[furnessvale]

Unlike other industries, and with reference to front line staff especially, on the railway there is no backlog of passengers waiting to be moved after the strike has ended. They, and their money went on the strike day by other means.

Similarly for freight. Most freight went on the day by road, possibly with the customer having to sign a 12 month contract with a road haulier to get his service, so future traffic is also lost.

Any overtime staff get due to endemic shortages in the industry is overtime they could have had with or without a strike.

 

[Bald Rick]

It varies by job.

For operational roles - traincrew, station staff, signallers, controllers, etc, there is only a finite amount of it available to fill the gaps in the roster. In fact because of the strikes there is less available than would otherwise be the case, as (obviously) you can’t work overtime on a strike day. So, on average, the amount of overtime available is actually lower, and therefore on average, these roles will be getting less overtime than normal. (Although a small proportion of individuals will be caning it, a much larger proportion will not be able to).

To a certain extent it is different in maintenance, as some of the routine work is deferred and that needs to be picked up later. Overtime may be used for this, although naturally if there is more work to do it is more likely that economies of scale kick in and the work can be done more efficiently.

 

[43096]

The railway runs on overtime

I thought the railway ran on tea? Maybe that’s the issue.

 

[43066]

I thought the railway ran on tea? Maybe that’s the issue.

Nobody can afford tea bags anymore, and the guards can’t afford Sudoku to do in the back cab. Why do you think everyone is out .

 

[Thirteen]

I wonder if the number of strikes day is less or more depending on if members can get either get strike pay, overtime, RDW or perhaps all three. ASLEF has only done five days of strikes on the railways which is a lot less compared to other unions.

Unite's strike fund probably explains why the bus strikes can go on for longer and on more dates.

 

[12LDA28C]

I wonder if the number of strikes day is less or more depending on if members can get either get strike pay, overtime, RDG or perhaps all three. ASLEF has only done five days of strikes on the railways which is a lot less compared to other unions.

Unite's strike fund probably explains why the bus strikes can go on for longer and on more dates.

ASLEF don't give members strike pay. I don't believe RMT do either but happy to be corrected on that.

 

[Bald Rick]

ASLEF has only done five days of strikes on the railways which is a lot less compared to other unions.

ASLEF don’t really need to strike - they can let RMT carry on.

 

[43066]

So, on average, the amount of overtime available is actually lower, and therefore on average, these roles will be getting less overtime than normal. (Although a small proportion of individuals will be caning it, a much larger proportion will not be able to).

Worth pointing out there that priority for overtime is generally inversely proportional to how much has been worked; of those who volunteer on a given day, those who have done the least throughout the year will take priority. Therefore, if someone who generally did very little or no overtime wanted to recoup a day’s pay due to the strike, they would (quite rightly) be given priority over someone who had spent the rest of the year caning it.

 

[FGW_DID]

ASLEF don't give members strike pay. I don't believe RMT do either but happy to be corrected on that.

No strike pay from RMT.

 

[Merle Haggard]

Unlike other industries, and with reference to front line staff especially, on the railway there is no backlog of passengers waiting to be moved after the strike has ended. They, and their money went on the strike day by other means.

Similarly for freight. Most freight went on the day by road, possibly with the customer having to sign a 12 month contract with a road haulier to get his service, so future traffic is also lost.

Any overtime staff get due to endemic shortages in the industry is overtime they could have had with or without a strike.

I can say with certainty that a lot of freight traffic was lost for good, like that, during strikes in the past. Pretty heartbreaking when you'd put a lot of effort into getting it to see it thrown away, and had no benefit from the strike...

Although I was almost always a freight man, I did notice that, after a strike, passenger trains were noticeably more empty for months afterwards - I did wonder whether the (slow) recovery was actually due to new customers reaching working age replacing ones who had been put off the railways for good. In the those days, there were many passengers who had no choice but to use rail but had a deep seated, bitter resentment of B.R. and its employees (railway managers never talked shop on a train, you would have soon got into a heated argument, I've seen it). I don't think the railways have such a monopoly, now though, particularly with W.F.H..

There may be a more direct affect on, for example, drivers now compared to B.R. days., Back then, if turns at a depot were reduced because of loss of traffic the effect was spread over all the drivers (in reality, less overtime). Nowadays, the employment is much more flow - specific, so that if a freight flow is lost the dedicated drivers will just not have a job. Similarly, the number of drivers jobs in the T.O.C.s is directly related to work in that particular line. Might still, of course, mean no overtime rather than redundancy.

But my opinion contradicts that of the driver who posted that 'don't worry, all the traffic would come back'. Sorry! We'll see...

 

[Bald Rick]

Worth pointing out there that priority for overtime is generally inversely proportional to how much has been worked; of those who volunteer on a given day, those who have done the least throughout the year will take priority. Therefore, if someone who generally did very little or no overtime wanted to recoup a day’s pay due to the strike, they would (quite rightly) be given priority over someone who had spent the rest of the year caning it.

That’s certainly the case in some places, but not necessarily all.

 

[Goldfish62]

ASLEF don’t really need to strike - they can let RMT carry on.

I doubt if that point is lost on a lot of people.

 

[43066]

I doubt if that point is lost on a lot of people.

To be fair ASLEF members have seen neither hide nor hair of a sensible pay offer, hence the strike action (albeit quite limited as yet compared to the RMT).

 

[Thirteen]

To be fair ASLEF members have seen neither hide nor hair of a sensible pay offer, hence the strike action (albeit quite limited as yet compared to the RMT).

ASLEF in a way have the upper hand because they've done deals with the non DfT TOCs already so they can push that when negotiating. I also think their messaging is probably a lot less militant compared to the RMT and more apologetic whenever they do strike.

 

[weastebusdepot]

There are of course the invisible victims of these disputes. Those on zero hours contracts associated with the railway. Including but not limited to station and on-train cleaners, customer hosts and catering trolley staff, gateline and revenue staff, rail replacement coordinators, customer service assistants, security contractors. They just get told that on strike days their shifts are cancelled because there is no requirement for them and that's the way it is.

Good to see them acknowledged by both sides during the debate in the House of Commons this afternoon, although it didn't offer any solutions.

 

[scrapy]

ASLEF in a way have the upper hand because they've done deals with the non DfT TOCs already so they can push that when negotiating. I also think their messaging is probably a lot less militant compared to the RMT and more apologetic whenever they do strike.

RMT also have done deals with the same non DFT TOCs as well haven't they?

 

[Thirteen]

RMT also have done deals with the same non DFT TOCs as well haven't they?

Just Scotrail and TfW IIRC for this year as I'm not sure if they've resolved their dispute with Arriva Rail London who run London Overground, MTR Elizabeth Line has been running successfully so I assume there are no issues there at the moment.

 

[RJ]

Rail replacement gets cancelled when TOC strikes are on so the companies who arrange staff and resource for those days may be left out of pocket. The engineering works go ahead so the TOCs would still be compensated by Network Rail for the line closures.

I have never worked when the RMT has called a strike day. Though I respect that it’s a personal choice. Strikes aren’t a day off in my eyes because they can be called off at any point so I never make plans I can’t cancel.

That said, I’m not trying to be out of pocket, bills to pay and that. An unpaid day hurts. I find ways to generate money that don’t involve the railways when strikes fall on work days. I don’t really subscribe to the norm that a job should be one’s only source of income. Some colleagues do rest day working and extra hours to cover shortfalls but speaking to friends at other TOCs, a resolution is hoped for sooner rather than later.

 

[Goldfish62]

Just Scotrail and TfW IIRC for this year as I'm not sure if they've resolved their dispute with Arriva Rail London who run London Overground, MTR Elizabeth Line has been running successfully so I assume there are no issues there at the moment.

RMT have also settled at Hull Trains.

 

[dd1]

Those on zero hours contracts associated with the railway. Including but not limited to station and on-train cleaners, customer hosts and catering trolley staff, gateline and revenue staff, rail replacement coordinators, customer service assistants, security contractors.

Why are so many staff on zero hours? Many of these jobs don't sound like they should be on zero hour contracts.

 

[12LDA28C]

Why are so many staff on zero hours? Many of these jobs don't sound like they should be on zero hour contracts.

Certainly many cleaners are agency staff and not employed directly by TOCs. Due to the nature of the work staff turnover is high and it appears to be cheaper to use agency workers rather than employ staff directly with all the associated costs that entails.

 

[43066]

Why are so many staff on zero hours? Many of these jobs don't sound like they should be on zero hour contracts.

Why do you think!? Cost!

Naturally the unions are against the creeping casualisation of the workforce, so it’s a little rich that these people losing shifts during a dispute is then used as a stick to beat the unions with!

 

[GuyGibsonVC]

From a Network Rail perspective, the maintenance is entirely run on overtime as there isn't enough staff to cover fault response, possession management, time bound faults etc. If you were unlucky and have been rostered all the dozen or so strike days since June, I'd wager that you are still haven't lost pay as RDW, On Call and HGD over the period will have covered any losses.

For example, Basic Visual Inspection Track Patrols have a 24 hour compliance window. Those that were supposed to be done today are being done tomorrow on overtime. I know of departments that are short of staff that have people working 60 and 70 hours a week just to maintain cover due to a lack of manpower, sickness, competence, adverse weather etc. 100 plus hours of overtime a month, so their net position will still be positive. This isn't the fault of the individual, just the system that they work in.

 

[Undiscovered]

ASLEF don’t really need to strike - they can let RMT carry on.

It's great for the drivers.
RMT does all the hard work and drivers get to book on from the golf course and enjoy their jollies while on full pay..

When they did strike, we had to book on in depot and sit in the mess room for our full shift.

If you can get away with that, why would you ever strike?

Why are so many staff on zero hours? Many of these jobs don't sound like they should be on zero hour contracts.

Modernisation and workplace reform...

 

[Thirteen]

It's great for the drivers.
RMT does all the hard work and drivers get to book on from the golf course and enjoy their jollies while on full pay..

When they did strike, we had to book on in depot and sit in the mess room for our full shift.

If you can get away with that, why would you ever strike?

Plus they don't get painted as the bad guy by the media like RMT do. Mick Whelan doesn't get nearly as much media coverage as Mick Lynch and even when he is interviewed, they're never as hard on him.