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Subject: Appeal Regarding the Use of an Invalid Railcard

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loay

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shrewsbury
Hello guys am very much anxious due to this ticket irregularity report I received on the transpennine express, from Manchester to Edinburgh. The reference number that I have put on the website shows that I owe then 10091.6£!! And the Fees is 0.
Its the Reference number that starts with TPEMG…
The story was that I used the wrong railcard 26-30 which I used to have instead of the one I have and active Network rail card, because of so much stuff I was stressing about I do these silly stuff like even forgetting my passport and cancelling my flight on the same day!
So, I got a letter through the post to say I need to explain myself….which down here I sent them a reply via their website and email. However, I later receive a response saying your details has been transferred to the debt recovery and prosecution team who will contact me through post in due course. Any help please on what to expect?
Dear TransPennine Express Customer Services,
I am writing to sincerely apologize for mistakenly using an invalid railcard for my journey from Manchester Airport to Edinburgh on the 14th of August, which I purchased through Trainline app. I mistakenly used the 26-30 Railcard (used to have and expired in April this year) instead of the valid Network Railcard that I currently hold.
The reason for this mistake was due to the extraordinary circumstances surrounding my journey. I had just returned from Jordan via Antalya due to the escalating situation in the region. After landing in Manchester, I needed to travel urgently to Edinburgh because of serious family issues, even though I usually reside in Shrewsbury.
In my haste and under the considerable stress of the past few weeks, I made a mistake while comparing ticket prices on the app using different railcards, which is something I do to see the difference fares. Unfortunately, this time I did not pay attention to the fact that I was selecting the wrong railcard on the actual purchase, one that I used to have but has since expired.
I fully recognize that there is no excuse for this oversight, and I deeply regret the error. I understand that the rules are in place to ensure fairness for all passengers, and I take full responsibility for my actions. I want to emphasize that there was no intention on my part to misuse the rail system or gain an unfair advantage. The past few weeks have been incredibly challenging, with personal and family difficulties, academic pressures, and the distressing situation back home.
I appreciate the opportunity to explain my situation and appeal this issue. I sincerely hope that you can take into consideration the unusual and stressful circumstances that contributed to this mistake. I value my career and life here in the UK deeply, and I would never want to jeopardize either.
Once again, I apologize for any inconvenience caused and assure you that I will be more careful in the future. Thank you for your understanding and consideration of my appeal.
 
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notmyrealname

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26 Oct 2023
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343
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London
Hi.

Could you show us the TIR please? That way the experts can figure out what you're dealing with. Cover up your name, address and their reference number if applicable.
 

loay

Member
Joined
22 Aug 2024
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8
Location
shrewsbury
Here are pictures of it, excuse the quality please.
 

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soil

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network railcard is not valid anywhere near any of the places you mention
 

loay

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Location
shrewsbury
And this is the letter I received via post.

network railcard is not valid anywhere near any of the places you mention
I realise that…it was my mistake, a silly one no excuses…but I just keep doing these comparisons while looking at the app and I ended up purchasing the ticket on the invalid railcard which was too late to undo…but would that lead to prosecutions or paying up to 10000£!?
 

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Titfield

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No the amount shown online is some arbitrary figure entered into the system whilst the matter is investigated, your response received and a decision made.

EDIT

Apart from TfL (Transport for London) Prosecutions for ticketing issues are only commenced by Train Operating Companies when the passenger fails to engage or there is industrial scale fare evasion or fraud (which is a specific offence).
 
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AlterEgo

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In my haste and under the considerable stress of the past few weeks, I made a mistake while comparing ticket prices on the app using different railcards, which is something I do to see the difference fares.
Why would you be looking at fares for railcards you don’t hold?

It seems clear here that you realised your Network Railcard wouldn’t get you a discount so you selected an option which did give you a discount.
 

Mcr Warrior

Veteran Member
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8 Jan 2009
Messages
14,502
My reading is that the OP incorrectly or inappropriately claimed a 26-30 railcard discount but doesn't have (no longer has?) an accompanying valid, in date, 26-30 railcard. Assuming that this was a one-off incident, there must be a decent chance of them negotiating an out of court settlement, which will probably cost £95.60 for the Manchester>Edinburgh fare and perhaps a three figure sum on top, covering TPE's investigation + admin costs.
 

loay

Member
Joined
22 Aug 2024
Messages
8
Location
shrewsbury
My reading is that the OP incorrectly or inappropriately claimed a 26-30 railcard discount but doesn't have (no longer has?) an accompanying valid, in date, 26-30 railcard. Assuming that this was a one-off incident, there must be a decent chance of them negotiating an out of court settlement, which will probably cost £95.60 for the Manchester>Edinburgh fare and perhaps a three figure sum on top, covering TPE's investigation + admin costs.
Should I ask immediately for an out of court settlement or wait for their response?
 

Titfield

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The customer has received a letter (see post #5).

As I understand it their draft response is in post #1. However this response needs redrafting because their explanation relies on actually having a network railcard but that of course itself would not be valid on the route the customer was travelling on.
 

soil

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Joined
28 May 2012
Messages
2,147
And this is the letter I received via post.


I realise that…it was my mistake, a silly one no excuses…but I just keep doing these comparisons while looking at the app and I ended up purchasing the ticket on the invalid railcard which was too late to undo…but would that lead to prosecutions or paying up to 10000£!?
ok but it doesn't particularly add up as an explanation.

presumably you are now ineligible for the 26-30 railcard, so it's not clear why you would have entered it. the network railcard wouldn't have given you a discount so I'm not sure why you would mention it.
 

loay

Member
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22 Aug 2024
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8
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shrewsbury
Always best to wait for their letter first, and when it comes, respond to it.
Yeah, will do just that. Any Ideas on the likelihood of this going further than a fine? As they said the matter has been passed for the debt recovery and prosecutions team for investigation?

The customer has received a letter (see post #5).

As I understand it their draft response is in post #1. However this response needs redrafting because their explanation relies on actually having a network railcard but that of course itself would not be valid on the route the customer was travelling on.
So, I have already submitted that reply while uploading all the evidence from tge network railcard and the tickets, as I purchased the first one using unfortunately the 26-30 rail card which have expired last April and after realising what happened and taking the fine I purchased the other one at the normal rate…I even uploaded the cancelled flights emails as all of them happened on the same 2 weeks…I know it won’t help much but just as to explain am not doing it on purpose or have a history of it.
 
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Mcr Warrior

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Yeah, will do just that. Any Ideas on the likelihood of this going further than a fine? As they said the matter has been passed for the debt recovery and prosecutions team for investigation?
Undoubtedly, they'll be checking to see if you've been purchasing and then using any other 26-30 railcard discounted tickets for journeys made since your previous 26-30 railcard expired, whenever that was. Have you?
 

loay

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22 Aug 2024
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Location
shrewsbury
ok but it doesn't particularly add up as an explanation.

presumably you are now ineligible for the 26-30 railcard, so it's not clear why you would have entered it. the network railcard wouldn't have given you a discount so I'm not sure why you would mention it.
Btw the conductor who given me a fine told me the fact the Network railcard don’t work outside London, I didn’t know that for a fact…am not a frequent user of the trains. But, because I have that instinct I can’t explain it…I like to compare what will it be If I had that railcard instead and I go into that dilemma…not reasonable not mature…yeah I know…and no a good enough reason yeah agreed…but it is what it is. Anyway, as I replied to them I am owning up to my mistake no excuses…just don’t want this to escalate.
 

WesternLancer

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The customer has received a letter (see post #5).

As I understand it their draft response is in post #1. However this response needs redrafting because their explanation relies on actually having a network railcard but that of course itself would not be valid on the route the customer was travelling on.
That suggests it was sent to customer services so maybe won’t even get linked to the case under investigation anyway. Hard to know what will happen with it.

I don’t think the op should assume it will help resolve their case if it was not sent to the correct place.

The reply needs to be sent to he address on the letter received in the post and it needs to be a clearer and better reply if prosecution risk is to be avoided.
 

loay

Member
Joined
22 Aug 2024
Messages
8
Location
shrewsbury
Undoubtedly, they'll be checking to see if you've been purchasing and then using any other 26-30 railcard discounted tickets for journeys made since your previous 26-30 railcard expired, whenever that was. Have you?
The first time I discovered it got expired as the conductor on the train alerted me to it…that was back in May…So I asked him to purchase the Full ticket and he agreed back then. However, it wasn’t the case this time.
 

Hadders

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Welcome to the forum!

There are a number of things to unpick here. If I understand things correctly:

1. You made a journey from Manchester Airport to Edinburgh. The ticket you purchased had a 26-30 Railcard discount applied
2. You do not possess a 26-30 Railcard
3. TPE have written to you asking for your version of events before they decide how to proceed
4. You have purchased railcard discounted tickets before without holding the necessary railcard. A conductor spoke to you about this back in May but they sold you a new ticket rather than reporting you for investigation.
5. You possess a Network Railcard. This is irrelevent to this case as a Network Railcard cannot be used to purchase discounted tickets between Manchester Airport and Edinburgh.

Is this correct? I can see that you have drafted a reply to TPE in your opening post but I think it needs some amendment. I suggest re-writinh it into a short, concise reply mentioning the following points:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the train company's administrative costs in dealing with the matter

There are some good examples of letters that others have written in other threads in this section of the forum.

TPE are withink their rights to prosecute you if they want to but they will normally offer an out of court settlement if you co-operate with them. Paying an out of court settlement might feel like paying a fine but technically it isn't and you won't have a criminal record as a result of paying a settlement. If you are offered a settlement expect to have to pay the cost of the outstanding fare at the full Anytime rate with no credit given for the invalid ticket you used. In addition you will need to pay an admin fee, typically around £150. You will need to be in a position to pay the settlement in full within a few days of it being offered - payment in installments isn't normally allowed.

If you post a copy of your revised draft in this thread forum members will be happy to proof read it for you.
 

John R

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4,426
I would cut out the bit about where you travelled from and why you were going to Edinburgh. “The reason for this mistake was…” etc

It has nothing to do with why you bought the wrong ticket.
 

Pushpit

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But, because I have that instinct I can’t explain it…I like to compare what will it be
You may want to get some clinical advice here, ideally from a specialist in DCD / Dyspraxia and ADHD. It may all be perfectly OK, and we are all wired up in different ways quite normally, but a conversation with an expert in the area may make your life much easier. Your GP can signpost you to the right place, that may well be an occupational therapist or a physiotherapist - it doesn't matter which it is, so long as they have experience in adult DCD.
 

loay

Member
Joined
22 Aug 2024
Messages
8
Location
shrewsbury
You may want to get some clinical advice here, ideally from a specialist in DCD / Dyspraxia and ADHD. It may all be perfectly OK, and we are all wired up in different ways quite normally, but a conversation with an expert in the area may make your life much easier. Your GP can signpost you to the right place, that may well be an occupational therapist or a physiotherapist - it doesn't matter which it is, so long as they have experience in adult DCD.
I am on the spectrum of adhd…but I don’t think that will do anything here…I am also a doctor in the NHS…I can self refer but its not my point here and am not discussing it here. Thank you for your concern.

Welcome to the forum!

There are a number of things to unpick here. If I understand things correctly:

1. You made a journey from Manchester Airport to Edinburgh. The ticket you purchased had a 26-30 Railcard discount applied
2. You do not possess a 26-30 Railcard
3. TPE have written to you asking for your version of events before they decide how to proceed
4. You have purchased railcard discounted tickets before without holding the necessary railcard. A conductor spoke to you about this back in May but they sold you a new ticket rather than reporting you for investigation.
5. You possess a Network Railcard. This is irrelevent to this case as a Network Railcard cannot be used to purchase discounted tickets between Manchester Airport and Edinburgh.

Is this correct? I can see that you have drafted a reply to TPE in your opening post but I think it needs some amendment. I suggest re-writinh it into a short, concise reply mentioning the following points:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the train company's administrative costs in dealing with the matter

There are some good examples of letters that others have written in other threads in this section of the forum.

TPE are withink their rights to prosecute you if they want to but they will normally offer an out of court settlement if you co-operate with them. Paying an out of court settlement might feel like paying a fine but technically it isn't and you won't have a criminal record as a result of paying a settlement. If you are offered a settlement expect to have to pay the cost of the outstanding fare at the full Anytime rate with no credit given for the invalid ticket you used. In addition you will need to pay an admin fee, typically around £150. You will need to be in a position to pay the settlement in full within a few days of it being offered - payment in installments isn't normally allowed.

If you post a copy of your revised draft in this thread forum members will be happy to proof read it for you.
Thank you for this valuable insight. Will take it into consideration.

I would cut out the bit about where you travelled from and why you were going to Edinburgh. “The reason for this mistake was…” etc

It has nothing to do with why you bought the wrong ticket.
I will consider
 
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