Summoned to court

[John R]

Many cases on this forum get resolved without people employing solicitors however.

Though very few of the cases we see here have involved the person seeking help sending a highly inflammatory initial response, guaranteed to wind up the investigator who received it. Which has undoubtedly resulted in the hard line so far being taken.

 

[WesternLancer]

Though very few of the cases we see here have involved the person seeking help sending a highly inflammatory initial response, guaranteed to wind up the investigator who received it. Which has undoubtedly resulted in the hard line so far being taken.

Possibly. But to be fair there is apologetic sections and a request to resolve it too.

And the service probably is mediocre too, tho this wasn’t the time to focus on that.

 

[JordR]

It's arguably more mediocre because of fares not being paid.

Agree with everyone, try again with Northern but adopt a better approach and don't criticise them or their service no matter how justified you think it is. You want them to offer to settle and you have no entitlement to that.

If they won't go for it, it's usually possible to plead guilty by post and not attend a magistrates' court for a minor railway ticketing crime, if you want to avoid that experience.

 

[pleasehelpme]

I really don’t know what to do here I’ve been getting some contradictory responses. I’ve read one that stated something like I just do what I want; not really I’m genuinely selfless It was just a stupid mistake that I regret and not just regret because I caught. I didn’t really think of the seriousness of the situation.

I have sent two emails one of me apologising and one of evidence of the officers who said I wouldn’t go to court. I did this before I read the forum. They haven’t got back to me.

The email they sent me did say ‘intention to go court’ so I’m assuming it’s not fully guaranteed yet but maybe I’m being too optimistic here.
Should I send one more email or a letter consisting some Of the responses I’ve got on here saying I apologise and offering to pay correct fare plus administration fees in order to save the time and expense of a court case.

Or do I get a solicitor that specialises in fare evasions but there’s a risk it might not work as it might make the investigator more mad. I know this could be deemed as ‘lazy’ but I’m more worried about having a criminal conviction over anything because I’ve worked hard all my life and been through a lot and I don’t want a silly mistake holding me back from any oppurtunities.

I thank everyone who has taken their time out to read this and sent me some helpful tips.

 

[pleasehelpme]

It's arguably more mediocre because of fares not being paid.

Agree with everyone, try again with Northern but adopt a better approach and don't criticise them or their service no matter how justified you think it is. You want them to offer to settle and you have no entitlement to that.

If they won't go for it, it's usually possible to plead guilty by post and not attend a magistrates' court for a minor railway ticketing crime, if you want to avoid that experience.

If I do plead guilty my post what consequences would I face

 

[Fawkes Cat]

If I do plead guilty my post what consequences would I face

- you will have to pay a fine and a surcharge (both I think based on your income, typically adding up to around £300), the prosecution costs (typically around £150) and compensation (the cost of the train ticket that you should have paid). So very broadly, think about £500
- you will NOT go to prison
- you will have a conviction and in popular language you will have a 'criminal record'.
- but for most purposes, my understanding is that railway ticketing offences are 'spent' after no more than a year. 'Spent' means that even if an employer, insurer etc. asks about whether you have any convictions you don't have to tell them about spent ones. But bear in mind there are some things where offences never become spent - things like jobs where a very high standard of trustworthiness is required. For those whoever is asking the question will spell it out, referring to the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act. So you won't miss if you still need to report things. Also bear in mind that offences being 'spent' is only for the UK - other countries (such as the USA and Australia) may need to know about any conviction if you want to visit them.

So pleading guilty isn't disastrous. But if you can settle the matter out of court it will almost certainly be cheaper, and as you won't have a conviction or criminal record you may avoid some hassle further down the road.

 

[Pushpit]

I really don’t know what to do here I’ve been getting some contradictory responses. I’ve read one that stated something like I just do what I want; not really I’m genuinely selfless It was just a stupid mistake that I regret and not just regret because I caught. I didn’t really think of the seriousness of the situation.

If you sent the letter in post 9, that frankly would be a big mistake. It's not an apology, they will see it as a wind-up. Now there's isn't much point in arguing that, the damage appears to be done. But the email in post 5, with the "intention to prosecute" is your last-chance-saloon. Forget about what the inspectors on the train told you. They are at the risk of personal violence due to their job, so they will say all sorts of things to de-escalate the problem, since once they have done that it's easier for them to fill in their forms and get the matter handed over to the DRPU. That's life.

So look at post 23. You need to grovel, really grovel, the outlines of the grovelling are indicated to you in @WesternLancer first few bullets. Check here before sending, but don't hang around too long. If you don't want to grovel, then the court system awaits. That's a tough message but I believe it to be correct.

 

[WesternLancer]

If you sent the letter in post 9, that frankly would be a big mistake. It's not an apology, they will see it as a wind-up. Now there's isn't much point in arguing that, the damage appears to be done. But the email in post 5, with the "intention to prosecute" is your last-chance-saloon. Forget about what the inspectors on the train told you. They are at the risk of personal violence due to their job, so they will say all sorts of things to de-escalate the problem, since once they have done that it's easier for them to fill in their forms and get the matter handed over to the DRPU. That's life.

So look at post 23. You need to grovel, really grovel, the outlines of the grovelling are indicated to you in @WesternLancer first few bullets. Check here before sending, but don't hang around too long. If you don't want to grovel, then the court system awaits. That's a tough message but I believe it to be correct.

Totally agree with this advice

I suspect the OP has a choice of:

- having another go at writing to the train company to get this settled out of court (I think this is achievable despite what was said earlier and the OP should have a go at it - it's what I'd do, and will save solicitors costs etc. I would say to OP get going on a draft - people here will help you - even if they have said a few 'home truths' to you about that happened

or

- getting a solicitor involved (costs a whack, probably a strong chance they can get it settled out of court, can't be 100% guaranteed)

or

- opt to go to court, plead guilty to get early reduced fine etc - as per what @Fawkes Cat says will happen in helpful post #36

 

[pleasehelpme]

Okay thank you. I’m currently writing it out but do you think I should add ‘I apologise for my previous email’ or shall I not mention it at all

 

[Pushpit]

Okay thank you. I’m currently writing it out but do you think I should add ‘I apologise for my previous email’ or shall I not mention it at all

Yes. Briefly dispose of it by saying something like "I apologise for my previous email, I can see now that it was a bad reply and didn't properly take on board Northern's concerns about my fare evasion". Or whatever wording that reflects your views.

 

[pleasehelpme]

I’m assuming I have to give reason as to why I’ve fare evaded a couple times. What can I say?

 

[Pushpit]

I’m assuming I have to give reason as to why I’ve fare evaded a couple times. What can I say?

Actually I don't think you do need to give a reason, Northern knows very well that you were evading fares to save money illegally. You could say it was a big mistake - it's less the "why", more the "why never again". They will be more concerned to know why you won't be repeating this evasion.

 

[pleasehelpme]

Dear Northern railway,

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Dear Northern railway,

I would like to start off by saying I am sincerely sorry for my actions. I now understand the seriousness of fare evasion and the impacts it can have on the company and the staff. I am aware this places an unfair burden on the system and other passengers who pay the correct fare. I deeply regret my mistake and take full responsibility for my actions.

Since this incident, I have ensured that I always purchase the correct ticket, and I will continue to do so in the future. I have learned a valuable lesson and will never repeat this mistake. This situation has caused me considerable stress, and I deeply regret putting myself in this position. I apologise to have caused you the time and trouble in handling this matter.

I hope Northern railway will take my genuine remorse into account when considering my case. I would be extremely grateful if you would allow me the opportunity to settle this matter outside of court by paying the outstanding fare, along with the costs incurred from processing my case. I respect the rules and regulations in place and assure you that this will never happen again.

Additionally, I would also like to apologise for my previous email, I can see now that it was a poor reply and didn't properly take on board Northern's concerns about my fare evasion. In hindsight, I realise how it could come across as an attempt to shift focus from the issue at hand, and that was never my intention. I regret the miscommunication and appreciate the opportunity to clarify my position.

Once again, I am truly sorry and appreciate your time in reviewing my request. I would be grateful for your consideration for an alternative resolution, and I hope to settle this matter amicably.

Kind regards, x

Although I'm not normally one to worry about the niceties of letter layout, etiquette and so on, in this particular case I think that you should start with something like 'Thank you for your email of <whatever the date of the most recent email to you is>'. You're not in a strong position, so not only do you need to show every possible courtesy, but you need to make it clear that you are trying to engage in a discussion with the railway, rather than just firing off an email in the hope that they will change their mind about prosecution.

And you should, of course, make sure that you include whatever reference numbers Northern are using for the case (although you're right not to show those to us just now).

 

[Pushpit]

I agree with FC. But I also think it's a good email overall and gets your points of view over very well. It's not too long, not too short. I hope that it is effective.

You best capitalise Northern Railway - 2 occurrences - but formally it's either Northern or Northern Trains Limited.

 

[pleasehelpme]

Should I attach is as a pdf or copy and paste it. And is the first bit fine now?

 

[Pushpit]

I doubt it matters if it's PDF or copy/pasted into an email, I would probably keep it in email form.

 

[pleasehelpme]

Do I need to add anything else or alter anything before I send it

 

[Haywain]

I would be grateful for your consideration for an alternative resolution, and I hope to settle this matter amicably.

I think you need to be clearer about what you are asking for here. Say that you would greatly appreciate the opportunity to settle the matter without court action, by paying the fares avoided and their costs.

 

[pleasehelpme]

Okay guys I’ve sent an email. I shall update you when I get a response. Please pray for me. Thank you for everyone who’s took their time out of their day to help me, I really appreciate it.

 

[WesternLancer]

Okay guys I’ve sent an email. I shall update you when I get a response. Please pray for me. Thank you for everyone who’s took their time out of their day to help me, I really appreciate it.

Good luck. Head back as things develop.

 

[pleasehelpme]

I’m so nervous. What if there’s a letter already on the way about me going to court? Would that mean there’s no chance for me

 

[WesternLancer]

I’m so nervous. What if there’s a letter already on the way about me going to court? Would that mean there’s no chance for me

There won’t be a letter on the way about you going to court if you’ve responded to them before their deadline so I don’t think you need to worry about that yet.

 

[pleasehelpme]

Update:
‘I can confirm that we intend to pursue this matter in Court. On receipt of your court paperwork you will be able to submit your plea.’
What can I do now?? Pls help

 

[Haywain]

Update:
‘I can confirm that we intend to pursue this matter in Court. On receipt of your court paperwork you will be able to submit your plea.’
What can I do now?? Pls help

Wait for the court paperwork to arrive. You appear to be out of choices.

 

[pleasehelpme]

Shall I get a solicitor now or wait for the papers. When would the court date be roughly once the paperwork arrives?

 

[AlterEgo]

Update:
‘I can confirm that we intend to pursue this matter in Court. On receipt of your court paperwork you will be able to submit your plea.’
What can I do now?? Pls help

To put it bluntly, you will receive court paperwork (a summons or, perhaps a SJPN), and you will need to plead. That’s it really. The train company are using their prerogative to prosecute you for the offence in the magistrates’ court.

You are guilty of the offence and you do not dispute this so I would recommend pleading guilty to get a discount on the fine, which should be one third.

Shall I get a solicitor now or wait for the papers. When would the court date be roughly once the paperwork arrives?

You don’t need a solicitor for this. It’s likely you will get a SJPN and the court process is done entirely on paper if that is the case.

 

[Hadders]

It seems that Northern are determined to send this case to the Magistrates Court.

A solicitor cannot change what has happened but they might be able to present your case to Northern and ask for an out of court settlement in a better way than you've been able to do yourself. Solicitors specialising in rail fare evasion aren't cheap - expect no change from £1,000 and if they can't persuade Northern to withdraw the case you'll still have to pay their fee in addition to the court fine, surcharge, costs etc.

 

[pleasehelpme]

To put it bluntly, you will receive court paperwork (a summons or, perhaps a SJPN), and you will need to plead. That’s it really. The train company are using their prerogative to prosecute you for the offence in the magistrates’ court.

You are guilty of the offence and you do not dispute this so I would recommend pleading guilty to get a discount on the fine, which should be one third.


You don’t need a solicitor for this. It’s likely you will get a SJPN and the court process is done entirely on paper if that is the case.

will I get a criminal record?

 

[pleasehelpme]

Will I get a criminal record?