Supermarkets discussion

[Typhoon]

I personally use the self checkout to make sure I'm charged correctly - the cashiers are too quick to do that. Even then, (like other railwaymen I know) I rely heavily on 'reduced to clear' food, sometimes the scanner reads the original full price barcode if the sticker isn't correctly applied - that happens in Sainsbury, though.

Ditto. Why the staff cannot cover the previous barcode, or, at least the bit with the price coded. I've had situations where they have almost been at right-angles. I've learnt to put my fingers over the previous code. Good thing too, the 'assistant' was on her mobile phone, including the times anyone managed to attract her attention.

I use Tesco self service and I find it frustrating that, after the computer has worked out the weight of loose fruit on the scales, it then claims that when I put iit n my bag it's 'unexpected' - I assumed because it had registered a different weight. The assistant then comes over and looks in the bag and always clears it.

You mean they bother? In my experience by the time I've angled the bag so they can see inside they are on their way back to their station.

 

[Mojo]

How's it know the difference between carrots and avocados (to use a previous example) and/or bananas and/or loose potatoes, before it prints the label?

There is a camera above the bowl and it tells you what you have put in there - it doesn’t give you the option to select the wrong item.

FWIW - most supermarkets don’t sell avocados by weight, they are sold at fixed prices with the prices dependent on size.

 

[Busaholic]

Just going back to the 'scanning to exit the self serve area' discussion - I've noticed a few of these popping up locally (most recently as a 'trial' in a London Sainsburys I went into on Thursday) and whilst I'm sure to a large extent they are theatre (particularly the ones in Morrisons that seem to just be fancy-looking one-way gates, I didn't have to scan my receipt, just walked up to them and they opened!), there clearly is demand for them - they're very commonplace in mainland Europe (see them in pretty much every major supermarket in places like Germany, France and the Nordic countries) so there must be some benefit. My guess (and it's only that!) is that, aside from the deterrence factor, it makes it easier to discreetly stop people suspected of 'mis-scanning' for a manual check without the risk of them running off unimpeded.

I brought the subject up before, but nobody else had encountered this. As I've now seen it in operation at my local Sainsbury's I'll reveal more.

There is an extensive ridged mat as you go in the store and, at least if you approach that mat on exit from store roughly straight on with a trolley containing many unbagged or unboxed items, the front nearside wheel of the trolley will cease to roll until a security person comes to release it by applying some sort of zapper to that wheel. All their trolleys seem to have been adapted, the wheel being of a different colour and itself ridged'

Why I say 'from straight on' is because it's only from that direction I've observed the block, whereas 'from the left' would imply that someone had at least been past the various types of till. In each case I saw the person had a receipt which they waved, and the security guard released the trolley without demur. What sets the system off I know not, but in each case the security guard was nearby, which they aren't always. I've heard that walking out with trolley loads without paying has long been a problem here, particularly at weekends, and I'm sure I've witnessed it myself. It's a large car park, round two sides of the store and has two exits plus a separate pedestrian one and the wherewithal to disappear into rhe filling station or a small development of other businesses, neither visible from the store itself.

I've now noticed that my local Tesco has the same matting, and appears to have modified its trolley front nearside wheel too, although they appear to be smooth ones. I suspect they aren't actually operating it yet, because the more conventional scanners are still operating, whereas Sainsbury's don't beep nearly so often these days. Morrison's relies on a very obvious security guard hunched over CCTV cameras as you go in the store, but as they have so few customers these days he must get very bored.

 

[jon0844]

I had my trolley lock in Asda (the same store that usually has no trolleys - and the ones on my road are still there..) and it was when I went in, tried to login to the self scan app and failed, so I went out to the foyer to get a handheld scanner.

Security then approached me and did something to the wheel to release the lock, and could see I had nothing in the trolley at all.

My guess would be that the wheels remain unlocked when entering but if you don't pass a till of any type when exiting it will lock? Suggesting there are a couple of 'modes' the wheel can be set to?

That would stop you going in, loading up with the big items near the entrance and walking out. But if this is how it works, you'd surely just walk by a till to toggle the more?

Otherwise there can't really be any way to tell besides security just pressing something to trigger your trolley to lock as you exit - but if it was done manually, why did they lock mine?

 

[skyhigh]

Ditto. Why the staff cannot cover the previous barcode, or, at least the bit with the price coded. I've had situations where they have almost been at right-angles.

Putting the reduced label on at a right-angle to the existing barcode is the perfect way to do it. To be read the scanner needs to see the whole 'width' of the barcode. The length is irrelevant. Putting the barcode on at a right angle over a few bars of the normal barcode ensures it can't be mis-scanned.

 

[Hadders]

Not really sure why they don't stick a camera and some AI on there.

It’s coming!

How's it know the difference between carrots and avocados (to use a previous example) and/or bananas and/or loose potatoes, before it prints the label?

The scales use AI to ‘learn’ what each item is.

Why the staff cannot cover the previous barcode, or, at least the bit with the price coded.

When an item is reduced to clear the original barcode should be covered to prevent it being scanned. One thing to be aware of is the reduced to clear barcode is normally larger than the original one (due to it containing more digits that contains details of the reduction). There is certain legal information on packing (like date codes and ingredients) that cannot be covered so this occasionally means the reduced to clear barcode ends up having to be placed in a sub-optimal position.

 

[GusB]

The scales use AI to ‘learn’ what each item is.

While this technology can determine the difference between bananas and apples, I wonder if it is able to distinguish between different varieties of apple. I remember having to do produce recognition tests in my days at Safeway and, while it was easy to tell Mackintoshes from Golden Delicious, it wasn't always so easy with Royal Gala, Cox's and Braeburns!

When an item is reduced to clear the original barcode should be covered to prevent it being scanned. One thing to be aware of is the reduced to clear barcode is normally larger than the original one (due to it containing more digits that contains details of the reduction). There is certain legal information on packing (like date codes and ingredients) that cannot be covered so this occasionally means the reduced to clear barcode ends up having to be placed in a sub-optimal position.

From the standpoint of someone who has had to carry out price reductions and having to scan the bloody things, the current situation is much, much better today than it used to be. We used to have red labels with a single barcode that simply told the till that an item was reduced; that barcode was then peeled off, the reduced price was entered manually and finally the original barcode was scanned to tell the till what it was!

Unfortunately, some staff just slap the labels on without any consideration for anyone else, whether it be colleagues or customers!

 

[Typhoon]

When an item is reduced to clear the original barcode should be covered to prevent it being scanned. One thing to be aware of is the reduced to clear barcode is normally larger than the original one (due to it containing more digits that contains details of the reduction). There is certain legal information on packing (like date codes and ingredients) that cannot be covered so this occasionally means the reduced to clear barcode ends up having to be placed in a sub-optimal position.

The larger barcodes are fine until you have to apply a second one because the first reduction (of just over 10% where there are stacks of them going out of date that day) was insufficient. As far as I can work out the new price is at the end so that bit needs to be covered. If it can't be read, I can enter it manually, I have no problem with that, takes me some time, but that is the price of buying yellow labels.

From the standpoint of someone who has had to carry out price reductions and having to scan the bloody things, the current situation is much, much better today than it used to be. We used to have red labels with a single barcode that simply told the till that an item was reduced; that barcode was then peeled off, the reduced price was entered manually and finally the original barcode was scanned to tell the till what it was!

Unfortunately, some staff just slap the labels on without any consideration for anyone else, whether it be colleagues or customers!

I wish I could double underline that. As far as I am concerned an organisation's staff, particularly customer facing ones, are a major asset, no matter what level they are at and you work together. For the last dozen years I have seen three regulars on the self service. A middle aged woman, who still works there and always speaks, a young woman with excessive (in my eyes) eye make up who I thought would be less good but turned out to be excellent, and an elderly woman, always busy and cheerful. All excellent. They have increased the number of self service and the current regular was still cheerful even though she was run off her feet - the very reason why I always stack my basket rather than leaving it and go to Customer Service directly with problems (recently items under a Nectar price banner but not charged as such - no-one had updated the shelf labels). Whether I was going to self service or a staffed till, a staff member will still have to intervene. Make it easy on your colleagues, apply the new label properly!

Putting the reduced label on at a right-angle to the existing barcode is the perfect way to do it. To be read the scanner needs to see the whole 'width' of the barcode. The length is irrelevant. Putting the barcode on at a right angle over a few bars of the normal barcode ensures it can't be mis-scanned.

Interesting, thanks!

 

[takno]

When an item is reduced to clear the original barcode should be covered to prevent it being scanned. One thing to be aware of is the reduced to clear barcode is normally larger than the original one (due to it containing more digits that contains details of the reduction). There is certain legal information on packing (like date codes and ingredients) that cannot be covered so this occasionally means the reduced to clear barcode ends up having to be placed in a sub-optimal position.

My local store are extremely good at covering to original barcode with a strip of waste sticker, and then locating the discount sticker separately. Unfortunately they almost invariably put the big sticker over the calorie info, the weight or both, which can be a chore.

 

[Russel]

Something I've noticed more of recently in Aldi, prices on the shelf edge not matching the price programmed into the till.

I did a small shop of around 10 items yesterday and 3 items were a different price...

 

[takno]

Something I've noticed more of recently in Aldi, prices on the shelf edge not matching the price programmed into the till.

I did a small shop of around 10 items yesterday and 3 items were a different price...

The prices in my local Aldi mostly seemed to match, but quite a lot of stuff I was tempted to buy didn't have a price out at all. I just don't buy things without prices on, so not sure how that's working out for them

 

[DynamicSpirit]

A Sainsbury’s I visit regularly has this, but only for the scales that are in the fruit and veg aisles. You place the item on the scales and it knows what you have placed on them, you just press the button to issue a label.

EDIT: To be clear, my reply below is talking about the self-service checkouts, not the scales in the fruit/veg aisles, so possibly not so relevant as a reply to this particular post.

My local ASDA has something similar. It doesn't definitely know what you've put on the scale, but it has some idea and normally presents me with a quick list of 4-5 possible items so I can select which one. In my experience, the quick list has always contained the correct item, so there's never any need for me to start seaching through menus. At some point, I'm meaning to inspect the quick list more closely to see if I can figure out how it's selecting the possible items.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Something I've noticed more of recently in Aldi, prices on the shelf edge not matching the price programmed into the till.

I did a small shop of around 10 items yesterday and 3 items were a different price...

Were all 3 items higher priced at the till than as were marked on the shelf edge?

 

[gg1]

My local ASDA has something similar. It doesn't definitely know what you've put on the scale, but it has some idea and normally presents me with a quick list of 4-5 possible items so I can select which one. In my experience, the quick list has always contained the correct item, so there's never any need for me to start seaching through menus. At some point, I'm meaning to inspect the quick list more closely to see if I can figure out how it's selecting the possible items.

I don't think they're camera based as alluded to earlier, I get the impression they guess based on the weight of item and area of the store the scales are in.

At my local Tesco if I place a clove of garlic on the scale in that aisle it will bring garlic up as one of main options, if I place the garlic on the scales in the fruit aisle it won't come up at all, instead suggesting things like lemons and limes.

 

[Gloster]

One of my local supermarkets has a habit of having a special four-week offer on a range of products, say, one company’s slices and pasties, and having a load of suitably distinctive reduced price stickers along the shelf edge. But one, usually popular, item in the range won’t have a price sticker at all and, guess what: that particular variety isn’t on offer. I suspect that a lot of people think that all that range are reduced, but end up paying full price on one without realising.

 

[Typhoon]

The prices in my local Aldi mostly seemed to match, but quite a lot of stuff I was tempted to buy didn't have a price out at all. I just don't buy things without prices on, so not sure how that's working out for them

I've noticed stuff which has a label but for the wrong product (and not necessarily very similar product such as chicken soup against mushroom soup, more likely sunflower oil replaced by olive oil). It is as though they don't want empty shelves so they will fill them up with only vaguely similar items. Like you, no correct label, no buy.

One of my local supermarkets has a habit of having a special four-week offer on a range of products, say, one company’s slices and pasties, and having a load of suitably distinctive reduced price stickers along the shelf edge. But one, usually popular, item in the range won’t have a price sticker at all and, guess what: that particular variety isn’t on offer. I suspect that a lot of people think that all that range are reduced, but end up paying full price on one without realising.

I've seen similar, in one case with yoghurt, in particular where the 'not on offer' items are suspiciously close to a 'reduced' label because the number of yoghurt pots of the not reduced flavour more than fills the space allocated to them, while other flavours are almost sold out.

 

[malc-c]

I reported a price discrepancy in ASDA last Friday. Their sausage rolls should really be called yo-yo rolls as they go up and down from week to week. But on this occasion they were marked up on the shelf at £1.65 per pack, but when you zapped the bar code on the packets it came up at £1.95. I wonder how many who still shop the old fashioned way of dropping it in the trolley and have a person tally it up at the tills paid without knowing.

A few other people were scanning and then putting them back once they checked the price, but not all were checking after scanning. I reported the problem as was told just to raise it at the checkout rather than correct the mistake !

 

[DynamicSpirit]

I don't think they're camera based as alluded to earlier, I get the impression they guess based on the weight of item and area of the store the scales are in.

At my local Tesco if I place a clove of garlic on the scale in that aisle it will bring garlic up as one of main options, if I place the garlic on the scales in the fruit aisle it won't come up at all, instead suggesting things like lemons and limes.

Oh sorry, my reply was a bit confusing (now edited). I wasn't talking about the fruit/veg scales, but the self-service checkouts. So if I stick - say - bananas on the self-service checkout scales at ASDA, tap the screen to select the item, the screen will immediately ask what the item is, showing bananas plus a couple of other options. (Whereas at every other local supermarket, I have to go through the menu to select fruit, then type of fruit blah blah).

So it's not based on store location. Off the top of my head, I can't think of any mechanism it could be other than optical. At this point, the system doesn't know who I am because I haven't presented any card - so it can't be guessing based on my previous purchases. Speculating a bit, I would imagine an optical system wouldn't have to be that sophisticated: For example just working from the dominant colour of whatever is on the scales would probably be enough to narrow it down to a few items (at least for non-bagged stuff) - although I imagine some AI based on the shape of the item would help more.

 

[Russel]

Were all 3 items higher priced at the till than as were marked on the shelf edge?

Yeah, all higher at the til.

2 Items higher by around 5p but the one that I picked up on first was a bottle of super concentrate squirty squash, the shelf edge (next to the checkout belt!) said 90p, the receipt said £1.49.

I didn't bother questioning it as we're talking about 70p overall difference, it's more of an annoyance, though over a big shop it could obviously add up to a lot more.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Definitely misleading pricing that. Whilst it would be a little tricky, after the event, to ask that Aldi refund you the difference, if they keep on regularly pricing items incorrectly, this may be something that the local Trading Standards Service would possibly want to investigate.

 

[GusB]

Yeah, all higher at the til.

2 Items higher by around 5p but the one that I picked up on first was a bottle of super concentrate squirty squash, the shelf edge (next to the checkout belt!) said 90p, the receipt said £1.49.

I didn't bother questioning it as we're talking about 70p overall difference, it's more of an annoyance, though over a big shop it could obviously add up to a lot more.

I would certainly question it; this sort of thing can get a retailer into trouble and if nobody bothers they'll carry on doing it. I'd be bringing it up with the store to begin with as genuine mistakes do happen, but if it's happening regularly and with multiple items, there's a big compliance problem. What else are they failing to do?

 

[Russel]

I would certainly question it; this sort of thing can get a retailer into trouble and if nobody bothers they'll carry on doing it. I'd be bringing it up with the store to begin with as genuine mistakes do happen, but if it's happening regularly and with multiple items, there's a big compliance problem. What else are they failing to do?

I get what you're saying and I agree, but once I'm already at the packing shelf, studying the receipt, to question the store would require me retracing my steps around the store to firstly double check I'm right in what I'm potentially accusing them of and secondly tracking down a member of staff that isn't already juggling about 3 different tasks on not much more than minimum wage... all over 70p.

I would have assumed they have internal audit processes to pick up on this kind of thing.

 

[jon0844]

Many supermarkets seem woefully short of staff these days so maybe that's why there are the problems. Not enough people to do the labels and put them out, or check them.

It may not be a sinister plan to rip people off, although the end result could still be considered the same if people get overcharged.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Many supermarkets seem woefully short of staff these days so maybe that's why there are the problems. Not enough people to do the labels and put them out, or check them.

It may not be a sinister plan to rip people off, although the end result could still be considered the same if people get overcharged.

Mostly I think you're correct, but I'd make a likely dishonourable exception for my local Morrisons' frequent discounts for only one flavour of a product: So you'd see something like - say - a big prominent Special-Offer price label for (for example) Birds Eye frozen chicken breasts, but you'd have to look really hard at the small print on the label to see that it was only the Peri Peri flavour ones that are in the offer - not the Southern Fried or Barbecue ones that are in the same freezer. I can't imagine that sort of thing is anything other than an attempt to catch out customers who don't look too closely at their receipts. I've never known any other supermarket do that - it seems to be a uniquely Morrisons thing.

 

[Gloster]

Mostly I think you're correct, but I'd make a likely dishonourable exception for my local Morrisons' frequent discounts for only one flavour of a product: So you'd see something like - say - a big prominent Special-Offer price label for (for example) Birds Eye frozen chicken breasts, but you'd have to look really hard at the small print on the label to see that it was only the Peri Peri flavour ones that are in the offer - not the Southern Fried or Barbecue ones that are in the same freezer. I can't imagine that sort of thing is anything other than an attempt to catch out customers who don't look too closely at their receipts. I've never known any other supermarket do that - it seems to be a uniquely Morrisons thing.

Morrison’s was the supermarket I was referring to in #555. (But it wasn’t State Express cigarettes I was talking about.)

 

[Busaholic]

In an unbusy Tesco this afternoon I saw exactly how one person can get out of a store with quite a lot of goods without paying or causing any alarms to be raised or go off. I'd just finished at the self-service checkout and a guy came through the manned (well, womanned) aisle, while someone else was being served, with two armfuls of goods pressed hard to his chest, indicating to the cashier that he was going to customer services cum ciggies kiosk to pay. There was a queue of three there, with the assistant busy and turned away: he spent about three seconds at the end of that queue, saw the exit ten yards away had no security guard in place and just walked out at normal pace. From what I saw, he probably got away with twenty to thirty pounds worth.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Morrison’s was the supermarket I was referring to in #555. (But it wasn’t State Express cigarettes I was talking about.)

Oooh - interesting. So that means, it's not just my local Morrisons that does it, but something that's possibly widespread amongst Morrisons stores.

 

[malc-c]

Yeah, all higher at the til.

2 Items higher by around 5p but the one that I picked up on first was a bottle of super concentrate squirty squash, the shelf edge (next to the checkout belt!) said 90p, the receipt said £1.49.

I didn't bother questioning it as we're talking about 70p overall difference, it's more of an annoyance, though over a big shop it could obviously add up to a lot more.

But that's just it. Whilst its "only" 70p, if you multiplied that across all the shops UK wide they could be pocketing several hundreds of pounds each day.

 

[Busaholic]

But that's just it. Whilst its "only" 70p, if you multiplied that across all the shops UK wide they could be pocketing several hundreds of pounds each day.

Quite a long time ago now, but B&Q were taken to court and fined £30,000 for such transgressions in Cornwall over a period of time.

 

[Hadders]

My local store are extremely good at covering to original barcode with a strip of waste sticker, and then locating the discount sticker separately. Unfortunately they almost invariably put the big sticker over the calorie info, the weight or both, which can be a chore.

And illegal....