Surviving UK industrial railway systems

[Western Sunset]

Anyone mention MoD sites like Marchwood and Ashchurch?

 

[ANDREW_D_WEBB]

Plasser at West Ealing has Herbert - a Drewry diesel

 

[D6130]

That little thing is certainly not the enormous beast from the article!

Oh yes it is! That's the C-C diesel-hydraulic super-shunter 'Cracoe', built by RFS Doncaster in 1994. To give it the necessary traction to haul a fully-loaded 2,500 tonne stone train up the rising gradient towards the quarry exit, it has massive bogies weighted with large concrete blocks and is too heavy to run on the branch from Skipton. As a result, it is confined to the quarry precincts and had to be delivered by road on three separate low-loaders - one for the body and one for each bogie - before being assembled on site using a heavy crane. When I was working at Skipton and travelling up to the quarry, there were also at least two - and possibly three - ex-BR 350 bhp diesel-shunters there....a class 08 (3088?), a class 11 (12100?) and a class 12 (15231?). I can't remember the exact numbers, but someone on here will probably know.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Oh yes it is! That's the C-C diesel-hydraulic super-shunter 'Cracoe', built by RFS Doncaster in 1994. To give it the necessary traction to haul a fully-loaded 2,500 tonne stone train up the rising gradient towards the quarry exit, it has massive bogies weighted with large concrete blocks and is too heavy to run on the branch from Skipton. As a result, it is confined to the quarry precincts and had to be delivered by road on three separate low-loaders - one for the body and one for each bogie - before being assembled on site using a heavy crane. When I was working at Skipton and travelling up to the quarry, there were also at least two - and possibly three - ex-BR 350 bhp diesel-shunters there....a class 08 (3088?), a class 11 (12100?) and a class 12 (15231?). I can't remember the exact numbers, but someone on here will probably know.

It looks completely different from the one I remember in the article. Obviously my memory of that is the best part of three decades old so I shouldn't rely on it too much... but the loco photographed in the post I quoted looks far smaller than the big blue thing that was in the old magazine article.

 

[D6130]

It looks completely different from the one I remember in the article. Obviously my memory of that is the best part of three decades old so I shouldn't rely on it too much... but the loco photographed in the post I quoted looks far smaller than the big blue thing that was in the old magazine article.

When delivered in 1994 the loco was painted in the smart maroon and blue Tilcon livery, but sometime after the takeover of Tilcon by Tarmac it was repainted in a boring all-white livery with the Tarmac logo in green (I think) on the cabsides. The photo linked to the above post was taken from some distance away and at a sharp angle....I think from the embankment where the B6265 road from Skipton to Grassington crosses the course of the old branch line just behind the bufferstops where the current branch and sidings terminate.

 

[higthomas]

Does Boulby have an underground internal system?

I know alot of the coal mines did.

I don't think it does. I went down a few years ago (to visit https://www.boulby.stfc.ac.uk/Pages/home.aspx) and didn't see any evidence of such things. Think it was trucks and possibly conveyors. But not 100% sure.

 

[D6130]

Does the South Bank/Grangetown/Lackenby steelworks complex to the East of Middlesbrough - or what's left of it - still have an internal railway system? What about ICI Billingham, Haverton Hill and Wilton

MOD Glen Douglas depot in Argyll & Bute has a small standard gauge network linked to the West Highland line and did, at one time, have an extensive underground narrow gauge (2 feet?) system....although I'm not certain how much of that survives since recent rationalisation. There were rumours for many years that the the depot was linked by a tunnel to the nearby Coulport Polaris/Trident missile storage and submarine loading facility....perhaps with a narrow gauge rail connection? I don't think we'll ever find out the truth as these places are top secret and their perimeters are patrolled by armed guards with dogs 24/7. Photography not recommended!

 

[Western 52]

Are there any narrow gauge industrial systems left anywhere? They were common years ago and even as late as the 1980s there were still several left, particularly in collieries.

 

[Dr Hoo]

Are there any narrow gauge industrial systems left anywhere? They were common years ago and even as late as the 1980s there were still several left, particularly in collieries.

Probably some temporary ones, e.g. on HS2 tunnelling work.

 

[Krokodil]

Are there any narrow gauge industrial systems left anywhere? They were common years ago and even as late as the 1980s there were still several left, particularly in collieries.

The Bord na Móna system was operational until last year

 

[windjabbers]

I don't think it does. I went down a few years ago (to visit https://www.boulby.stfc.ac.uk/Pages/home.aspx) and didn't see any evidence of such things. Think it was trucks and possibly conveyors. But not 100% sure.

I didnt see any when I visited a number of years ago. It was all truck based as you say.

BW DC

Another example near here is the Barrington Light Railway, which may not count as a "system".

The spoil trains to Barrington leave the Network Rail "system" at Foxton exchange sidings and travel along the Barrington Light Railway to reach the unloading point, still hauled by a GBRF locomotive.

But I'm not aware of there being a shunting loco.

No shunting loco since the Cement Works closed. The spoil trains loco does all the shunting. The points to the Light railway were renewed as part of the Foxton Level Crossing upgrade over the Christmas holidays. BW DC

 

[CastlebarKeith]

Are there still military systems with main rail connections such as Bicester, Tidworth etc?

 

[D6130]

Long Marston?

 

[AlterEgo]

Are there still military systems with main rail connections such as Bicester, Tidworth etc?

Tidworth is long gone, and I understand Bicester is no longer operational. The squadron which operated it has disbanded, as far as I know.

 

[themiller]

Skinningrove steelworks used to have shunters on site. Is it still going and are they still there?
I assume the cement factory near Dunbar still has at least one shunter.

 

[Big Jumby 74]

When I was working at Skipton and travelling up to the quarry, there were also at least two - and possibly three - ex-BR 350 bhp diesel-shunters there....a class 08 (3088?), a class 11 (12100?) and a class 12 (15231?). I can't remember the exact numbers, but someone on here will probably know.

08054, 12083 (11) & 15231 (12), although the latter was scrapped in 1983. I photo'd the 08 & 11 on a couple of visits, the last time being in 1993. Purely for the record D3088 was only ever a NE Area NCB loco (post BR), which I met at Bates pit.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Are there any narrow gauge industrial systems left anywhere? They were common years ago and even as late as the 1980s there were still several left, particularly in collieries.

Back when National Grid were using one of the older single bores of Woodhead for cables, they had a narrow gauge line laid in there. Not sure if they transferred that system over to the 1950 bore when they moved the cables over several years back.

The former Caphouse Colliery, now the National Coal Mining Museum for England, used to have loads of derelict track (both narrow gauge and standard) on site back when it had the more modest name of the Yorkshire Mining Museum, along with a fair few bits of abandoned rolling stock. I recall talking to a volunteer there about it and him telling me there were plans to make it an added attraction... though I've no idea if they have anything functional so many years later.

 

[Big Jumby 74]

I believe it's a old us one? Or looks American. Definitely something shunter sized parked there usually with tanks. It isn't a 08 or 09 shunter though.

The blue loco in the screenshot is HE (Hunslet) 6663 of 1969, an 0-6-0DH. It was rebuilt in 1999 by Hunslet Barclay (Kilmarnock) works no 6586, but it appears to largely still resemble its old self, as I remember the type as built - showing my age!

Also visible at Robeston Puma on Google Streetview, image taken Nov-24:

This second screenshot shows TH (Thomas Hill) 267V of 1976, a 4wDH, another type commonly used throughout industry not so many years ago.

The third loco alluded to is EEV (English Electric) D1198 of 1967, which was rebuilt by Yorkshire Engine Company in 1993 and given works No L122. To show what such mid life rebuilds could look like I have attached images I took of sister loco EEV D1199, the first in South Wales NCB ownership in 1987, the second about ten years later in a Kent steelworks. Appearance wise this often revolved around providing new cabs which would have improved working conditions for those driving them. Hope these are of some interest. Detailed info above from IRS (Industrial Railway Society) EL series books.

 

[trainmania100]

Does shoeberyness still get traffic?

 

[Ashwick]

Does shoeberyness still get traffic?

Ludgershall still has an MOD shunter I think.

 

[D6130]

08054, 12083 (11) & 15231 (12), although the latter was scrapped in 1983. I photo'd the 08 & 11 on a couple of visits, the last time being in 1993. Purely for the record D3088 was only ever a NE Area NCB loco (post BR), which I met at Bates pit.

Thanks for that. My memory is definitely not what it was....although I suspect that you probably wrote a lot more things down than I did!

the second about ten years later in a Kent steelworks.

Is Sheerness steelworks still operational in any form?....and, if so, does it still have an internal rail network? ISTR that there was also a scrapyard in nearby Queenborough which employed an ex-BR Andrew Barclay class 06 shunter.

 

[Big Jumby 74]

My memory is definitely not what it was....although I suspect that you probably wrote a lot more things down than I did!

Yours is not the only one, believe me! I actually have serious gaps, notebook wise, and after having seen all I was interested in (BR wise) I must have travelled to the industrial locations I visited, taking pictures of everything I could, and any notes scribbled somewhere that is now lost - very frustrating looking back now. I know some people were in the habit of recording everything they saw, regardless if they had 'cleared' all that particular class, which will have helped to keep a record for the future, but for me, once seen, that was it. By the time things like Brush 4's started to be modified/renumbered (477xx/8xx etc) I'd long since seen the entire class, barring those four early casualties, and had lost interest in the 'spotting' side of things. I seem to be waffling on a bit......sorry!

Sheerness steelworks: uncertain if its still a functioning site, but nothing rail orientated mentioned in the IRS's 18EL (2019). That's reminded me, 19EL (2024) has I believe just been published, and although no longer a member myself, I would highly recommend these series of books for those interested primarily in non BR loco's etc, and one doesn't have to be a member to buy a copy.

Queenborough Wharf was where the scrapyard was (P. Woods as I seem to recall). As far as I know none of the BR Barclays were ever there (stand to be corrected), but several 03's and 04's passed through there. They did have some very impressive Barclay (AB) 0-6-0DH's for a while, AB 509 to 512 inclusive, these being (AFAIR) ex Army locos.

Couple of my pics taken there attached. Ref my notebook losses, after much searching and head scratching I can only date the visit to see the AB's as 'late 1990's'.....

Ludgershall still has an MOD shunter I think.

As of 2019 MOD Ludgershall had two Thomas Hill 4wDH's. Although seriously depleted from years past, the MOD had/has a number of locations which use rail, and so their locos were from time to time reallocated to other places, exactly as BR locos were moved from depot to depot.

 

[Western 52]

Are there locos at Ford Dagenham? They used to have ex BR 03s and 04s, but I guess they'd have gone by now.

 

[geordieblue]

Tidworth is long gone, and I understand Bicester is no longer operational. The squadron which operated it has disbanded, as far as I know.

Still trains in and out of Bicester - there were MoD trains running as recently in April (and potentially after). There are also regular MoD workings from Kineton to Marchwood and Longtown with occasional other movements.

 

[Big Jumby 74]

Are there locos at Ford Dagenham? They used to have ex BR 03s and 04s, but I guess they'd have gone by now.

All gone afraid AFAIK. They had one 03, D2051, the rest of the BR locos being 04's. On an occasion when I had a pass to roam (with limitations) they also had a HC (Hudswell Clark) 0-6-0DH and a Hunslet 0-6-0DH, plus a Robel rail-road crane, bit of a big boys toy type of thing! I believe Fords own Classic car collection is now housed within what was the loco shed, or was at one time.

 

[Western 52]

All gone afraid AFAIK. They had one 03, D2051, the rest of the BR locos being 04's. On an occasion when I had a pass to roam (with limitations) they also had a HC (Hudswell Clark) 0-6-0DH and a Hunslet 0-6-0DH, plus a Robel rail-road crane, bit of a big boys toy type of thing! I believe Fords own Classic car collection is now housed within what was the loco shed, or was at one time.

That's a pity as it was a busy and interesting system in its day. We visited in 1985 and had a great time!

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Back when National Grid were using one of the older single bores of Woodhead for cables, they had a narrow gauge line laid in there. Not sure if they transferred that system over to the 1950 bore when they moved the cables over several years back.

It wasn't. Not sure if the old trackwork is still in there, but both the single bore tunnels have now been bricked up (certainly that's the case at the Woodhead station end).

 

[Adrian Barr]

Fords , Dagenham ?

Are there locos at Ford Dagenham?

Fords at Dagenham certainly have their own internal railway; trains are left in the exchange sidings and moved to the loading point by a shunt loco. From what I remember, the curves are a bit tight so I think they are probably still using a shunt loco - they certainly would have been when the Transfesa trains were running, which is not that long ago.

Took me a while to find this video again... shows a shunter in operation about 17 seconds in, plus car loading to wagons, as part of a short promo video (you might want to slow the video down in the options!)
It also shows the dock (as in Dagenham Dock) where the cars are imported for loading to rail.

Ford Dagenham | Ford UK

Not sure if anything still comes in or goes out by rail, but doesn’t the Liberty Steel Aldwarke/Roundwood/Thrybergh works complex in Rotherham have quite an extensive internal rail system?

In terms of outbound rail traffic from Aldwarke, the Deepcar traffic (mostly loaded ingots) ended towards the end of 2022. The last inward working to Aldwarke might have been inward steel from Tinsley (SMACC) for Thrybergh rolling mill in January 2023 - there were a few similar movements in 2021. The last main line movement was in November 2023 to collect a single BBA wagon.

The steelworks railway had its own flows of billet from Aldwarke to the rolling mill at Thrybergh, and also on the bridge over the main line to Roundwood. Although the Roundwood 11" mill making wire rod had closed years before, there is another mill there known as "Rotherham Bright Bar."

There's a bit more info in this post which was talking about some obscure internal wagons, but then expands into a discussion of the internal railway system with some good drone footage from YouTube:
https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...xp-pxq-pxv-pxw-pxx-wagons.279814/post-7147874

The photos by "Yorkshire Steelworker" of the steelworks railway are very interesting:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/40928931@N05/

The system is still in situ, but the site itself seems to be a bit moribund - not closed but limited activity and financially struggling.

I think Bardon Hill still has a loco and several sidings

I was surprised to see this video in my recommendations a few days ago - apparently there's a level crossing on the A511 located between the exchange sidings and the loading point. Google maps satellite imagery is a bit blurry but streetview shows the situation clearly. Very unusual!

Bardon Hill Quarry Level Crossing (Leicestershire) (17.02.20) | UK Level Crossing Spotter & Trains

On the same line, does Skinningrove have an internal network ?. Sidings appear to enter the works.

Skinningrove steelworks used to have shunters on site. Is it still going and are they still there?

I believe so, there's an album of photos on flickr and I don't think the operation has changed much since those were taken:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/46120187@N08/albums/72157662518334209/

Not clear why the photographer refers to it as a 'Pilot engine'!

Both groundstaff and shunting engines are referred to informally as "shunters," so shunting engines are often referred to as pilots by railway staff (though I gather a "pilot loco" from the steam era is sometimes used to mean an assisting engine on the front of a train).

It looks completely different from the one I remember in the article. Obviously my memory of that is the best part of three decades old so I shouldn't rely on it too much... but the loco photographed in the post I quoted looks far smaller than the big blue thing that was in the old magazine article.

You may be thinking of the Yeoman "switcher" at Merehead which was a bit of a beast and out of gauge - compare it to the size of the 59 behind in this shot: https://www.flickr.com/photos/36034969@N08/42750495750/ (Photo: Adrian Nicholls)

The Cracoe shunter looks more impressive close-up but is not quite in the same league:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/3741831270/53605616932/ (Photo: Kevin Delaney)
And in original Tilcon livery: https://www.flickr.com/photos/blue-diesels/4757469452/ (Photo: John Turner)

***

Good idea for a thread by the way... not sure how I missed it before.

 

[Old Yard Dog]

The Ashton Packet Boat Company Ltd has a little 2'0" railway system in its boatyard. It occupies a narrow site bordered by the Ashton Canal to the east and the Ashton Moss North Jn to Denton Jn PSUL and M60 motorway to the west. The railway is about 250 yds end to end with numerous sidings.

I was on a splendid BLS visit last Sunday codenamed Boaty McBoatface III.

View attachment Ashton Packet Boat Company.mp4

 

[Western 52]

Do they actually use that system for their day to day work? Looks interesting!