Swanage Railway to go cashless

[sh24]

When I worked in front line retail 25 years ago, cash was the most expensive payment method to handle. It's certainly not got cheaper in the intervening years and with declining use it makes sense not to accept any more.

 

[Titfield]

Handling cash is very expensive and a very significant security risk, especially when cash is being handled by volunteers.


Being cash only also means you can scoop a load out of the till and not declare it to the taxman, saving the cost of...tax!

Swanage Railway has (had?) a policy that all volunteers for roles which involved cash handling had to produce references.

I believe that some potential volunteers were put off by this, not because they weren't honest, but simply didn't like the faff of having to ask someone they knew to provide a reference. IIRC insurers providing insurance cover against theft (by employee or volunteer) require as a condition of the policy that all staff have provided suitable references.

 

[12LDA28C]

I 100% support this.
I don't even carry my wallet any more as I only pay on my phone. If you don't take card in this day and age you don't get my business

More fool you. I was in Iceland last year and needed fuel for my hire car. Found a petrol station in the middle of nowhere, attempted to use the card reader on the pump so I could begin fuelling but got an 'error' message. Went into the kiosk to find out what the problem was and was told that due to a telecoms / transmission / reception fault they could currently only accept cash payments. It seems the 'cashless society' isn't so great after all.

 

[Titfield]

Surely it goes without saying that both retailers and customers should have a back up or plan b just in case of an issue with their preferred means of accepting payment / paying for a good or service.

 

[12LDA28C]

Surely it goes without saying that both retailers and customers should have a back up or plan b just in case of an issue with their preferred means of accepting payment / paying for a good or service.

You would have thought so...

 

[Falcon1200]

You can stop your lost or stolen card in seconds.

But only once you realise it has been lost or stolen!

 

[Bletchleyite]

But only once you realise it has been lost or stolen!

Why would you not realise immediately that your wallet wasn't in your pocket?

 

[Spartacus]

Why would you not realise immediately that your wallet wasn't in your pocket?

Because a significant proportion of the population don't carry a wallet in their trouser pocket, but carry a purse in a handbag, or their wallet in another bag, where it will take longer to be missed. Even being carried in a pocket, particularly if it's a coat pocket, it's surprising how long something can go before it's missed.

 

[Falcon1200]

Why would you not realise immediately that your wallet wasn't in your pocket?

There are multiple ways to lose/mislay a card other than a wallet being stolen, in a purse in someone's handbag springs immediately to mind, for one.

 

[Ken H]

It will be interesting to see what effects this has. Certainly the work involved in preparing floats and then cash counting at the end of the day is time consuming.

card processing isnt cheap either. There was a village shop who posted on Facebook pleading for his regulars to pay cash. The 3% card fees were killing his business.
The 'big' railway will do many thousands of transactions a day so will get a good deal from the banks. A preserved railway not open 365 days a year wont get that.

 

[70F]

I 100% support this.
I don't even carry my wallet any more as I only pay on my phone. If you don't take card in this day and age you don't get my business

+1

 

[Titfield]

+1

Looking around it does seem as if more and more people are using their smartphone as a universal device for phone, text, camera, internet, apps and payment.

 

[Re 4/4]

Some student residences over here also use an app instead of a door key - what could possibly go wrong?

 

[Revilo]

Looking around it does seem as if more and more people are using their smartphone as a universal device for phone, text, camera, internet, apps and payment.

This means that they really are buggered when they lose or have stolen their phone, or it runs out of battery, or they have no signal. I use my card or phone for 95% of transactions but would never want to be without cash. Anecdotally there has been a small increase in cash transactions, as some find it easier to budget with in the cost of living crisis.

I also don’t entirely trust the banks either eg the Nigel Farage debanking scandal. In the future, who knows what political ‘values’ the banks/card companies will insist upon?

 

[Brush 4]

As the old saying goes, 'Don't put all your eggs in one basket' So why are people so casual and irresponsible?

 

[Starmill]

Some student residences over here also use an app instead of a door key - what could possibly go wrong?

Sure but don't nearly all of them allow a plastic card to be issued if you want one?

Upmarket hotels have been doing it that way for many years.

As the old saying goes, 'Don't put all your eggs in one basket' So why are people so casual and irresponsible?

Don't you think it's irresponsible to try to force a charity sector business supplied widely with volunteer labour to accept the cost of business cash deposit, plus all of the risk and cost in staff time of handling and transporting cash, as well as the fees to process cards payment?

And before anyone suggests they accept cash only, switching to just one of the two dominant methods of payment will always lose you some customers. But accepting cards only is now commonplace throughout the economy, while accepting cash only is now rare. Ergo you lose far more potential customers if you go cash only than card only.

I'm more concerned by far about the local bus operators who are still saying either "no cash", or "no cards", than a tourist attraction run by a charity.

 

[Brush 4]

I'm not advocating cash only for anyone, that is also no consumer choice. Just have cash as back up, you know it makes sense. I meant personally irresponsible to individuals with blind faith in new tech. Nothing is or ever will be 100% reliable.....

 

[AlterEgo]

I'm not advocating cash only for anyone, that is also no consumer choice. Just have cash as back up, you know it makes sense. I meant personally irresponsible to individuals with blind faith in new tech. Nothing is or ever will be 100% reliable.....

That applies to old tech too, like a physical key, or cash, both of which can be lost or damaged.

I have a mobile app (and contactless fob) to open my house in lieu of a physical key, and have had no problems at all. Meanwhile a friend of mine can't close their door to their block of flats because the lock keeps being damaged, and another lost their key only last week and had to wait outside in the cold until a locksmith arrived.

I carry about £50 in cash for emergencies but other than that I'm completely cashless.

 

[Titfield]

I'm not advocating cash only for anyone, that is also no consumer choice. Just have cash as back up, you know it makes sense. I meant personally irresponsible to individuals with blind faith in new tech. Nothing is or ever will be 100% reliable.....

as a Volkswagen........

 

[trainJam]

It is interesting how some places are cash only and some are card only. By accepting both, it provides another way to pay and gives the customer choice as opposed to telling people you can only pay by cash/card, which will be a nuisance for some people - for customers, best to carry both (small amount of emergency cash if card preferred) to avoid an embarrassing situation.

If there is a failure of the card machine, then it is useful to be able to accept cash - although I would have thought that this situation is no longer as frequent with better "technology". In shops I am seeing a lot of new card readers replacing the card readers I have seen for a long time.

Using a sweeping assumption or stereotype, I would have thought the type of people on a heritage railway would be more likely (in comparison to the majority) to have and use cash. Well, it has made its decision - presumably the overall savings of managing cash will be beneficial.

Personally, I only remember a time with both cash and card (with contactless being introduced). I like to be given the choice to "insert cash, or pay with card" (although a lot of those self-service machines have been replaced with card-only ones).

To address the loss of the cheque payment option - my main concern is bank power, trust and control and future potential problems arising thereof. Cheque and card payments are tied to banks; cash has less control tied to it.

Having everything in one basket (mobile phone) is convenient, but also a single point of failure. With everything separate (cash, phone, wallet, documents etc) there is a greater probability of losing one item, but the loss is smaller (e.g. best case only £10 lost). The single phone is lose all or nothing - so some people may find it easier to focus on keeping it close and not lost; for those who don't, it is easier to be dropped or stolen. The most likely issue is not responsibly charging up; the least probable issue is a hardware failure. We don't have an option but to trust and be dependent on our phone suppliers and tech companies on this one - and in most but not all cases it seems to work out fine (as long as we pay with our data).

Maybe we should bring two phones .

 

[N/100]

Card only means volunteers can finish earlier at the end of the day because they don't have to cash up , which is why the bar at my social club is card only (it could take up to an hour extra at a time you just want to get home).

 

[simonw]

Card only means volunteers can finish earlier at the end of the day because they don't have to cash up , which is why the bar at my social club is card only (it could take up to an hour extra at a time you just want to get home).

Quite. A couple of weeks ago, I called in at a station on a preserved line to see the last train go by and buy a drink and maybe a bite to eat as we waited. The buffet had already stopped taking orders even though there was a twenty minute wait for the train - presumably as they were cashing up, and the ticket office was happy to sell a ticket to travel by card, but a drink was cash only.

 

[Solent&Wessex]

I hope they've considered the cost of numerous electronic transactions. Quite a lot of businesses near me are going either cash only or prefer cash as it avoids those fees. It also means that local banks will have their business, helping them stay open. I know of a number of rural towns that have all but gone cash only, barring online bookings, for that very reason.

The businesses I have encountered which are cash only do seem to be owner operated and I think that may make a difference in the decision.

card processing isnt cheap either. There was a village shop who posted on Facebook pleading for his regulars to pay cash. The 3% card fees were killing his business.
The 'big' railway will do many thousands of transactions a day so will get a good deal from the banks. A preserved railway not open 365 days a year wont get that.

The costs of handling card payments do vary considerably depending on the size of your business.

Even a modest heritage railway, with good turnover, and a mix of online bookings and onsite sales, will get far better transaction rates from the card payment providers than a smaller owner operated business, or a small town business with only one outlet.

I know that at the heritage railway I volunteer at the vast majority of payments are now by card, across all our outlets, and the cost of handling the remaining cash is disproportionately high compared to the cost of the card payments.

A lot will depend on how your business pays it's bills, and suppliers, and how they do their banking.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

The costs of handling card payments do vary considerably depending on the size of your business.

Even a modest heritage railway, with good turnover, and a mix of online bookings and onsite sales, will get far better transaction rates from the card payment providers than a smaller owner operated business, or a small town business with only one outlet.

I know that at the heritage railway I volunteer at the vast majority of payments are now by card, across all our outlets, and the cost of handling the remaining cash is disproportionately high compared to the cost of the card payments.

A lot will depend on how your business pays it's bills, and suppliers, and how they do their banking.

Surely the costs of handling smaller amounts of cash will reduce (even if not exactly proportionally) to the point where the '£25' now taken in a day can be left in a tin on the mantelpiece rather than requiring Securicor to come and collect it!

As an aside, there must also be time / costs in reconciling card transactions, even if this is not at the end of the same working day, or do businesses just assume that total transaction value = total amount remitted by bank the folowing day plus x% for a retention period.

I am hearing (annoyingly repeatedly but that's another issue) adverts where a bank is offering half-rate card readers to small businesses for a period. Surely if the benefits of card transactions are so great there is no need for such inducement to take them up. Just think where card machine rental and card transaction fees will go once they reach a certain very large majority of transactions. It won't be in a downwards direction! And by that time people will refuse to go back to cash.

Long live the right to choose.

 

[sh24]

Surely the costs of handling smaller amounts of cash will reduce (even if not exactly proportionally) to the point where the '£25' now taken in a day can be left in a tin on the mantelpiece rather than requiring Securicor to come and collect it!

As an aside, there must also be time / costs in reconciling card transactions, even if this is not at the end of the same working day, or do businesses just assume that total transaction value = total amount remitted by bank the folowing day plus x% for a retention period.

I am hearing (annoyingly repeatedly but that's another issue) adverts where a bank is offering half-rate card readers to small businesses for a period. Surely if the benefits of card transactions are so great there is no need for such inducement to take them up. Just think where card machine rental and card transaction fees will go once they reach a certain very large majority of transactions. It won't be in a downwards direction! And by that time people will refuse to go back to cash.

Long live the right to choose.

Not sure any auditor is going to like you just leaving cash in a jar.

I can't think of any retail business that does a detailed reconciliation of card charges - you do a simple cash register read for the total and then compare to the remittance total. No detail needed - largely because they rarely go wrong, unlike cash, which is prone to human error and horrible to audit.

There is healthy market in card readers and the discounting is about making people switch far more than converting those from cash only. There are very few luddite hold outs that don't take some form of card payment too.

 

[Ken H]

Not sure any auditor is going to like you just leaving cash in a jar.

I can't think of any retail business that does a detailed reconciliation of card charges - you do a simple cash register read for the total and then compare to the remittance total. No detail needed - largely because they rarely go wrong, unlike cash, which is prone to human error and horrible to audit.

There is healthy market in card readers and the discounting is about making people switch far more than converting those from cash only. There are very few luddite hold outs that don't take some form of card payment too.

Who deals with cashbacks? And any business will have to do bank reconciliations. To check whats been paid in is on the statement.
And the staff may buy some in the supermarket or other local shops. How do you pay the for the thb of butter or the thropple nut needed for a loco that costs under a tenner?
And what about donation boxes where people give small change to the railway?

Next Saturday our village instutute has a coffee morning. The coffee and biccies are free but there is a margarine tub for donations. Preserved railways are a step up from that but not that much.

 

[Brush 4]

Putting your life in a phone is just irresponsible and short-sighted. Lose a key and that is all you have lost, although a spare key can be carried to combat that. I always take my second car key with me, (not kept in the car!) Not much use at home if I lose the first one when out. Putting all your eggs in one basket is plain daft.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

Not sure any auditor is going to like you just leaving cash in a jar.

Well it depends on the total amount obviously, and not in a jar with 'CASH' written on it, within reach and visible from the public highway through a plain glass non-reinforced window! That's why till drawers should always be left empty and open. Nothing to steal here, honest guv.

Surely no different than leaving all the stock on the shelves unattended overnight? In both cases it could so easily 'shrink' and be allowed for as a cost of doing business accordingly. I imagine the stock in a heritage railway shop (especially scale models) is worth more than the cash float even to Billy Burglar or Larry Light-Finger the volunteer! Not as easy to convert to cash in the pub as cheese, sprits or steak but online market places do exist.

 

[Starmill]

I'm not advocating cash only for anyone, that is also no consumer choice. Just have cash as back up, you know it makes sense. I meant personally irresponsible to individuals with blind faith in new tech. Nothing is or ever will be 100% reliable.....

For small and medium sized businesses, it's increasingly the case that risk and cost of cash handling and deposit is such that this flexibility is simply a luxury that they can ill afford. You could argue that the government ought to be protecting access to cash and basic bank accounts for all individuals, and cash deposits at reasonable prices in convenient locations for business. But they're not really doing much in the way of incentives or regulation, so a card only future is the only option for many. And I personally will use cash for convenience in certain cases, just not frequently.

 

[Mainline421]

Worse this actually means Visa or MasterCard only unless they've changed it. Which is particularly annoying for me as I usually have cash to use and Amex as my main card.

My concern would be more focused on the stability of the wi fi signal for the onboard ticket sales as the signal is patchy along some sections of the line.

They might be able to get away with using transit mode for onboard sales, it is technically accurate.

Some student residences over here also use an app instead of a door key - what could possibly go wrong?

I certainly would not be comfortable relying on that!