SWR Class 458 to be retained

[Invincible]

In this case it's not about extending the lease. It is running out of miles until heavy maintenance is due, a C4 exam I believe. This would need carrying out before the lease could be extended. Much better to get one of the 458/4s into traffic, or even get some 701s into service.

Thanks makes sense, probably easier to get 458/4s for Weybridge and Hounslow loop lines as there are drivers and guards trained for 458s who just the conversion update.

 

[ATS3]

What's going on now with the 458s? Last time I was following, I heard SWR was thinking of binning them; has that now changed?

 

[Benno]

What's going on now with the 458s? Last time I was following, I heard SWR was thinking of binning them; has that now changed?

Briefly, 458s were being refurbished and reformed to 4 cars to work on the Portsmouth line. Covid came and passenger numbers dropped so SWR didn't need them, however the refurb project has started so the 458s continue to be refurbished. As the 458s go for conversion SWR have less units for service, 701s are not coming into service as fast as expected so SWR are short of units. SWR asked Porterbrook to carry out some cab mods on 6 x 458/4 units to get them into service to help out, I hear this is now supposed to be 20 units even though 20 haven't been converted yet! Meanwhile the 455s soldier on but spare parts are in short supply and this could affect their availability, meaning less units in service.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Briefly, 458s were being refurbished and reformed to 4 cars to work on the Portsmouth line. Covid came and passenger numbers dropped so SWR didn't need them, however the refurb project has started so the 458s continue to be refurbished. As the 458s go for conversion SWR have less units for service, 701s are not coming into service as fast as expected so SWR are short of units. SWR asked Porterbrook to carry out some cab mods on 6 x 458/4 units to get them into service to help out, I hear this is now supposed to be 20 units even though 20 haven't been converted yet! Meanwhile the 455s soldier on but spare parts are in short supply and this could affect their availability, meaning less units in service.

SWR could have robbed the Southerns 455's for running spares of bogies and other non traction system parts but guess they thought they would have the 701's in use by now.

 

[43096]

Thanks makes sense, probably easier to get 458/4s for Weybridge and Hounslow loop lines as there are drivers and guards trained for 458s who just the conversion update.

It doesn't make sense. 8-vice-10 isn't acceptable.

 

[gabrielhj07]

Meanwhile the 455s soldier on but spare parts are in short supply and this could affect their availability, meaning less units in service.

Are there any single unit diagrams?

 

[swr444]

Are there any single unit diagrams?

only booked on sundays

 

[TEW]

And after an initial period when the 455 diagrams went up of a few diagrams regularly being 4-car daily, 455 short forms are once again very rare.

 

[444045]

Briefly, 458s were being refurbished and reformed to 4 cars to work on the Portsmouth line. Covid came and passenger numbers dropped so SWR didn't need them, however the refurb project has started so the 458s continue to be refurbished. As the 458s go for conversion SWR have less units for service, 701s are not coming into service as fast as expected so SWR are short of units. SWR asked Porterbrook to carry out some cab mods on 6 x 458/4 units to get them into service to help out, I hear this is now supposed to be 20 units even though 20 haven't been converted yet! Meanwhile the 455s soldier on but spare parts are in short supply and this could affect their availability, meaning less units in service.

There are 4 x 458/4 stored in Eastleigh Works currently as Bournemouth Depot & Wimbledon Park are full of stock.

 

[Siemens Staines]

And after an initial period when the 455 diagrams went up of a few diagrams regularly being 4-car daily, 455 short forms are once again very rare.

I agree that in general this is true, but by a quirk of unfortunate timing, this is from journeycheck this morning;

Train Formation Updates
05:54 Hampton Court to London Waterloo due 06:31
06:54 London Waterloo to Guildford due 08:04
08:45 Guildford to London Waterloo due 09:55
10:06 London Waterloo to Hampton Court due 10:42
10:54 Hampton Court to London Waterloo due 11:32
11:54 London Waterloo to Guildford due 13:02
13:45 Guildford to London Waterloo due 14:55
15:17 London Waterloo to Chessington South due 15:51
16:04 Chessington South to London Waterloo due 16:40
17:03 London Waterloo to Guildford due 18:09
18:34 Guildford to London Waterloo due 19:37
19:50 London Waterloo to Woking due 20:42
21:03 Woking to London Waterloo due 21:52
22:06 London Waterloo to Hampton Court due 22:45
23:45 London Waterloo to Chessington South due 00:23
00:27 Chessington South to Wimbledon due 00:45
Will be formed of 4 coaches instead of 8.

06:24 Hampton Court to London Waterloo due 07:01
07:24 London Waterloo to Dorking due 08:14
08:32 Dorking to London Waterloo due 09:25
09:36 London Waterloo to Hampton Court due 10:12
10:24 Hampton Court to London Waterloo due 11:01
11:24 London Waterloo to Dorking due 12:14
12:32 Dorking to London Waterloo due 13:25
13:36 London Waterloo to Hampton Court due 14:12
14:24 Hampton Court to London Waterloo due 15:01
15:24 London Waterloo to Dorking due 16:14
16:32 Dorking to London Waterloo due 17:25
17:36 London Waterloo to Hampton Court due 18:12
18:24 Hampton Court to London Waterloo due 19:01
19:24 London Waterloo to Dorking due 20:14
20:32 Dorking to London Waterloo due 21:26
21:36 London Waterloo to Hampton Court due 22:12
22:24 Hampton Court to London Waterloo due 23:02
23:12 London Waterloo to Shepperton due 00:03
Will be formed of 4 coaches instead of 8.

06:49 Epsom to London Waterloo due 07:25
07:36 London Waterloo to Hampton Court due 08:12
08:24 Hampton Court to London Waterloo due 09:01
09:24 London Waterloo to Dorking due 10:14
10:32 Dorking to London Waterloo due 11:25
11:36 London Waterloo to Hampton Court due 12:14
12:24 Hampton Court to London Waterloo due 13:02
13:24 London Waterloo to Dorking due 14:14
14:32 Dorking to London Waterloo due 15:25
15:36 London Waterloo to Hampton Court due 16:12
16:24 Hampton Court to London Waterloo due 17:01
17:24 London Waterloo to Dorking due 18:14
18:32 Dorking to London Waterloo due 19:25
19:36 London Waterloo to Hampton Court due 20:12
20:24 Hampton Court to London Waterloo due 21:01
22:32 Dorking to London Waterloo due 23:30
23:53 London Waterloo to Guildford due 01:00
Will be formed of 4 coaches instead of 8.

 

[WarrenTManager]

SWR could have robbed the Southerns 455's for running spares of bogies and other non traction system parts but guess they thought they would have the 701's in use by now.

No they couldn’t. Southern 455s belonged to Eversholt.

 

[Goldfish62]

No they couldn’t. Southern 455s belonged to Eversholt.

And also back when the 455s were sent for scrap I doubt if anyone seriously thought there wouldn't be mass introduction of the 701s well before now.

 

[D365]

8533 is powered up and can move on its own now. Last parts are due in mid-May. There might be some eye rolling but some of the bits had to be reverse engineered or ID’d. Some didn’t even have Alstom DTR numbers.

For the benefit of those that don’t work with Alstom rolling stock, could you please elaborate on ”DTR numbers”.

 

[1nvicible]

Most of Alstom part numbers are 10 numeric digits long prefixed with 'DTR'

 

[Snow1964]

458534 is running out if miles and will be stopped shortly, and that one isn’t going for conversion.

458533 is long term out of use, although there are rumours it is being fixed

Only about half the 458/5s still in use, haven't checked recently but think it is 17 of 36 units

 

[Goldfish62]

Not sure where that came from. The Railtour was in 2015 and there is no engineering change to reflect that. The 458/0s always had 100mph gearboxes but the painted speed in the cab was 90mph

OK 2015. I was on it.

I mentioned 90mph because someone would otherwise pipe up about them not being 100mph units.

 

[Siemens Staines]

458533 is long term out of use, although there are rumours it is being fixed

Only about half the 458/5s still in use, haven't checked recently but think it is 17 of 36 units

I think it will be 17 once 458534 drops out. It finished at Farnham on Friday night, so it should still be in use tomorrow. Currently I think the 458 fleet status is

458/5 In service (18)
458502,503,506,509-512,514,518,519,526
458529-532,534-536

458/5 Long-term out of service (1)
458533 28.01.22

458/5 status unknown (1)
458508 29.02.24

458/5 awaiting transfer to Widnes (1)
458527

458/4 Work in progress at Widnes (2)
458x01,x13

458/4 Completed and delivered to SWR (13)
458404,405,407,415-417,420-425,428

 

[OneTrackMinded]

Apparently 458404 and 458420 have had their cabs refreshed. New buttons, new GSMR, a deep clean, new stickers etc. Source is a member of SWR staff. No word on if they've had TPWS Mark 4 fitted though.

 

[Siemens Staines]

Paths are on RTT for this weeks transfers of, presumably, 458401 from Widnes and 458527 to Widnes. As per recent transfers, the onward path from Eastleigh has yet to be loaded.

Monday 29th April
5Z53 0723 Leicester L.I.P. to Widnes Transport Tech

Realtime Trains | 5Z53 0723 Leicester L.I.P. to Widnes Transport Tech | 29/04/2024

Real-time train running information for 5Z53 0723 departure from Leicester L.I.P. to Widnes Transport Tech on 29/04/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

5Q62 1311 Widnes Transport Tech to Wembley Receptions 1-7

Realtime Trains | 5Q62 1311 Widnes Transport Tech to Wembley Receptions 1-7 | 29/04/2024

Real-time train running information for 5Q62 1311 departure from Widnes Transport Tech to Wembley Receptions 1-7 on 29/04/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Tuesday 30th April
5X64 1135 Wembley Receptions 1-7 to Southampton Central

Realtime Trains | 5X64 1135 Wembley Receptions 1-7 to Southampton Central | 30/04/2024

Real-time train running information for 5X64 1135 departure from Wembley Receptions 1-7 to Southampton Central on 30/04/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

5Q64 1534 Southampton Central to Bournemouth T&R.S.M.D

Realtime Trains | 5Q64 1534 Southampton Central to Bournemouth T&R.S.M.D | 30/04/2024

Real-time train running information for 5Q64 1534 departure from Southampton Central to Bournemouth T&R.S.M.D on 30/04/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

5Z66 2018 Bournemouth T&R.S.M.D to Eastleigh East Yard

Realtime Trains | 5Z66 2018 Bournemouth T&R.S.M.D to Eastleigh East Yard | 30/04/2024

Real-time train running information for 5Z66 2018 departure from Bournemouth T&R.S.M.D to Eastleigh East Yard on 30/04/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[swr444]

Apparently 458404 and 458420 have had their cabs refreshed. New buttons, new GSMR, a deep clean, new stickers etc. Source is a member of SWR staff. No word on if they've had TPWS Mark 4 fitted though.

some of the guard panels in the cabs were falling apart, so hopefully these have been replaced as part of the "new buttons"

 

[Andy1673]

Meanwhile another pair of 458s gone of service. 2C07-2C18-2C21-2C32-2C35-2C46-2C49-2C60-2C63-2C74-2O75 Waterloo to Reading and return all day now is a pair of 455s. Now only seven pairs of 458s remain booked on weekdays.

 

[Goldfish62]

Meanwhile another pair of 458s gone of service. 2C07-2C18-2C21-2C32-2C35-2C46-2C49-2C60-2C63-2C74-2O75 Waterloo to Reading and return all day now is a pair of 455s. Now only seven pairs of 458s remain booked on weekdays.

The 0609 etc diagram off Reading is 450 instead of 455 today so I reckon it's just a temporary or permanent swap around. After all, we're being told now that availability of 455s is struggling so I don't see how another pair could be suddenly be available.

 

[Andy1673]

The 0609 etc diagram off Reading is 450 instead of 455 today so I reckon it's just a temporary or permanent swap around. After all, we're being told now that availability of 455s is struggling so I don't see how another pair could be suddenly be available.

Yes
RDG 2C12-2C15-2C26-2C29-2C40-2C43-2C54-2S57-2S66-2C73-2C82-2N77-5N77 Farnham (this diagram slightly modified since yesterday) now 2x450s, was previously 2x455.
As resuilt two more 450s formations (2F84 Woking 06:41 to Waterloo and so on; 1A07 Woking 06:30 to Alton and so on) now 8 450s instead of 12 each.

 

[Goldfish62]

Yes
RDG 2C12-2C15-2C26-2C29-2C40-2C43-2C54-2S57-2S66-2C73-2C82-2N77-5N77 Farnham (this diagram slightly modified since yesterday) now 2x450s, was previously 2x455.
As resuilt two more 450s formations (2F84 Woking 06:41 to Waterloo and so on; 1A07 Woking 06:30 to Alton and so on) now 8 450s instead of 12 each.

Thanks for the update.

 

[Class93]

Does the /4 refresh include sorting out the aquarium windows and a refurb or is it just yeeting off the fifth carriage and the 100mph uprate?

 

[waverley47]

Briefly, 458s were being refurbished and reformed to 4 cars to work on the Portsmouth line. Covid came and passenger numbers dropped so SWR didn't need them, however the refurb project has started so the 458s continue to be refurbished. As the 458s go for conversion SWR have less units for service, 701s are not coming into service as fast as expected so SWR are short of units. SWR asked Porterbrook to carry out some cab mods on 6 x 458/4 units to get them into service to help out, I hear this is now supposed to be 20 units even though 20 haven't been converted yet! Meanwhile the 455s soldier on but spare parts are in short supply and this could affect their availability, meaning less units in service.

Do we have a source for the number of units to be reintroduced so we can update the master thread?

 

[OneTrackMinded]

The rumour regarding the 458s entering service on the hounslow loop/waybridge services has been confirmed by an SWR staff member, here are the details
-Must be by July otherwise services will be cut
-Planned to start from June, 2x 8 cars fixed formation, so 4 units
-Union work is being done on the four units
-12 month max unless union agrees to more
-Training will likely start in May
-They are planned to run on said services but may change due to gauging issues it might change, will run where required to

These are to fill in for the stock shortage

 

[SWT_USER]

The rumour regarding the 458s entering service on the hounslow loop/waybridge services has been confirmed by an SWR staff member, here are the details
-Must be by July otherwise services will be cut
-Planned to start from June, 2x 8 cars fixed formation, so 4 units
-Union work is being done on the four units
-12 month max unless union agrees to more
-Training will likely start in May
-They are planned to run on said services but may change due to gauging issues it might change, will run where required to

These are to fill in for the stock shortage

What happens in July? Too many 458/5 gone by then?

There isn't much left to cut on the Windsor side unless they are planning hourly instead of half hourly services.

 

[OneTrackMinded]

What happens in July? Too many 458/5 gone by then?

Possibly.

 

[Bikeman78]

What happens in July? Too many 458/5 gone by then?

There isn't much left to cut on the Windsor side unless they are planning hourly instead of half hourly services.

Why wouldn't they run single four or five coach trains rather than cancel?