SWR to withdraw public access to Guildford Station Footbridge

[infobleep]

What data are they hoping to collect? A few years ago bridge passes were issued and they could presumably see how many people were abusing it by how many passes didn't get handed in?

There's a similar situation at Ashford International with people using the subway to get from one side of the station to the other.

Is the subway a permitted walking route via an agreement then?

As for bridge passes, I know of people who ended up with bridge passes. Not because they were dodging the system but it might be that they were issued with one and by the time they go to the otherwise the passes were not being collected as the person wasn't there to collect them.

I'm not saying that was the biggest problem but it didn't happen.

 

[Fazaar1889]

Is the subway a permitted walking route via an agreement then?

As for bridge passes, I know of people who ended up with bridge passes. Not because they were dodging the system but it might be that they were issued with one and by the time they go to the otherwise the passes were not being collected as the person wasn't there to collect them.

I'm not saying that was the biggest problem but it didn't happen.

This has only happened to me once and I had been using the pass daily to get to school for about 7 years... so I don't think it's a massive issue. I can definitely say that fair dodging from Guildford main to London Road is very common and as such is a very relevant issue. I think the only genuinely real and permanent solution is an entirely separate footbridge similar to the Yorkies bridge. However, the cost of such a project may be too high to justify. Just the Walnut bridge (which is only 30 odd metres compared to a theoretical station pedestrian bridge of over 100m) cost over £3million. Alas, I can only hope our councils receive more funding....

 

[Oldgaloot]

Fazaar says that fare dodging from Guildford main to London Road is "very common". The SWR 30 October release says that " It is estimated that improper use of the bridge passes has led to hundreds of thousands of pounds being lost through fare evasion." How anyone can get from a few pounds being lost from Guildford to London Road to a loss of "hundreds of thousands" is beyond me. SWR admits their figure is an "estimate" (and therefore highly unreliable) so why should we rely on anything else they offer in their desire to close the bridge as a walking route? What are they up to?

 

[Deepgreen]

Fazaar says that fare dodging from Guildford main to London Road is "very common". The SWR 30 October release says that " It is estimated that improper use of the bridge passes has led to hundreds of thousands of pounds being lost through fare evasion." How anyone can get from a few pounds being lost from Guildford to London Road to a loss of "hundreds of thousands" is beyond me. SWR admits their figure is an "estimate" (and therefore highly unreliable) so why should we rely on anything else they offer in their desire to close the bridge as a walking route? What are they up to?

The loss will have been over many years and from many different journeys, not just London Road. I can easily believe that huge sums have not been collected in fares. It's staggeringly easy to avoid paying to un-gated/un-manned stations - i.e. any on the NDL, most on the Cobham line, most on the Petersfield line and most on the Reading line.

 

[Fazaar1889]

It's staggeringly easy to avoid paying to un-gated/un-manned stations

It really is...

 

[Oldgaloot]

In their own calculations SWR use Portsmouth and Clapham Junction stations as points of arrival/departure for bridge pass misuse. That's how they arrive at their huge estimate. But I don't think either of those stations is un-gated/unmanned is it?

 

[infobleep]

In their own calculations SWR use Portsmouth and Clapham Junction stations as points of arrival/departure for bridge pass misuse. That's how they arrive at their huge estimate. But I don't think either of those stations is un-gated/unmanned is it?

I can't remember about Portsmouth Habour of hand but think it now is. Clapham Junction is gated and Portsmouth and Southsea also gated. As is Fratton but can't remember if that is in the Portsmouth Stations group.

 

[DelW]

I can't remember about Portsmouth Habour of hand but think it now is. Clapham Junction is gated and Portsmouth and Southsea also gated. As is Fratton but can't remember if that is in the Portsmouth Stations group.

The Harbour station is gated, but its effectiveness is compromised by the Wightlink pier (including the ferry ticket office) being within the gated area - and so ferry-only passengers have to be allowed through it.

 

[Edsmith]

Fazaar says that fare dodging from Guildford main to London Road is "very common". The SWR 30 October release says that " It is estimated that improper use of the bridge passes has led to hundreds of thousands of pounds being lost through fare evasion." How anyone can get from a few pounds being lost from Guildford to London Road to a loss of "hundreds of thousands" is beyond me. SWR admits their figure is an "estimate" (and therefore highly unreliable) so why should we rely on anything else they offer in their desire to close the bridge as a walking route? What are they up to?

I thought the problem was people using London Road to bypass the ticket gates at Guildford.

 

[infobleep]

I thought the problem was people using London Road to bypass the ticket gates at Guildford.

If it is a big problem there then install barriers and staff.

 

[Recessio]

If it is a big problem there then install barriers and staff.

God forbid the railway spend money on barriers or staff!

That being said I've always suspected that surely it would be a revenue positive move. It seemed to make a hell of a difference on London Overground, versus when Silverlink used to be called "the free line".

Barriers on London Road I could maybe understand, but I don't think you'll ever see them at some of the more remote stations and definitely not on the North Downs line. They need to have better revenue checks on trains and stings at stations.

 

[boiledbeans2]

In their own calculations SWR use Portsmouth and Clapham Junction stations as points of arrival/departure for bridge pass misuse. That's how they arrive at their huge estimate. But I don't think either of those stations is un-gated/unmanned is it?

If someone could get from Guildford to Portsmouth without an onboard ticket check, then I think SWR should convert to DOO operation...

 

[lxfe_mxtterz]

If someone could get from Guildford to Portsmouth without an onboard ticket check, then I think SWR should convert to DOO operation...

It's not so clear-cut as guards not bothering to check tickets. Granted, there will be some who don't check, but the problem is that some (metro grade) guards aren't trained to check tickets.

 

[156421]

I can't remember about Portsmouth Habour of hand but think it now is. Clapham Junction is gated and Portsmouth and Southsea also gated. As is Fratton but can't remember if that is in the Portsmouth Stations group.

Fratton was removed from Portsmouth Stations group in October 1988.

 

[infobleep]

It's not so clear-cut as guards not bothering to check tickets. Granted, there will be some who don't check, but the problem is that some (metro grade) guards aren't trained to check tickets.

But they wouldn't be working as far as Portsmouth.

God forbid the railway spend money on barriers or staff!

That being said I've always suspected that surely it would be a revenue positive move. It seemed to make a hell of a difference on London Overground, versus when Silverlink used to be called "the free line".

Barriers on London Road I could maybe understand, but I don't think you'll ever see them at some of the more remote stations and definitely not on the North Downs line. They need to have better revenue checks on trains and stings at stations.

Well two people on the North Downs Line were getting their details taken this evening. They weren't together but were both in my carriage.

Whilst the first one wasn't being rude, they ceetainly weren't being cooperative either so it was taking the RPI time to deal with them.

 

[Belgravia]

SWR’s Tap2Go smartcard is a simple way around this for frequent users.

Same station exit​

If you touch in and touch out at the same station within 15 minutes, no fare will be charged and we’ll assume you decided not to travel.

 

[lxfe_mxtterz]

But they wouldn't be working as far as Portsmouth.

Well that's strange, as I'm a metro guard and I certainly have a few rostered runs down to Portsmouth...

 

[infobleep]

SWR’s Tap2Go smartcard is a simple way around this for frequent users.

I never knew thus and I have Tap2Go.

 

[Recessio]

SWR’s Tap2Go smartcard is a simple way around this for frequent users.

I can't believe that's the system on SWR. Seems ripe for abuse if either your starting or end station is not barriered.

Compare to TfL where tapping in and out at the same station charges a maximum fare if its within 2 minutes, a minimum fare for 2-30 minutes, and charged two separate journeys for >30 minutes.

 

[wibble]

I can't believe that's the system on SWR. Seems ripe for abuse if either your starting or end station is not barriered.

Compare to TfL where tapping in and out at the same station charges a maximum fare if its within 2 minutes, a minimum fare for 2-30 minutes, and charged two separate journeys for >30 minutes.

What is ripe for abuse? I can't imagine many situations where you can tap in at the origin station, make a return journey and tap back out at the origin station within a 15min period.

If you don't tap in at the start and tap out at the end, there's a £25 incomplete journey charge.

 

[Recessio]

What is ripe for abuse? I can't imagine many situations where you can tap in at the origin station, make a return journey and tap back out at the origin station within a 15min period.

If you don't tap in at the start and tap out at the end, there's a £25 incomplete journey charge.

My thinking, from my understanding of the website, was if you start at a barriered station and end at an unbarriered: tap in to get through the barriers, then tap out immediately - so you don't get charged because they assume you decided not to travel.

Or if instead, your destination has a barrier, lean over and tap "in", then tap out as normal.

Provided you don't get caught by an RPI, simply waltz out at your destination, having not paid for your travel? Or am I misunderstanding how it works?

 

[Belgravia]

My thinking, from my understanding of the website, was if you start at a barriered station and end at an unbarriered: tap in to get through the barriers, then tap out immediately - so you don't get charged because they assume you decided not to travel.

Or if instead, your destination has a barrier, lean over and tap "in", then tap out as normal.

Provided you don't get caught by an RPI, simply waltz out at your destination, having not paid for your travel? Or am I misunderstanding how it works?

That would work, but only in one direction, and I’m sure the journey history would raise eyebrows if it was ever looked at. Not to mention it would be obvious to gateline staff what you were up to if they spotted someone tapping out, but not actually leaving.

 

[takno]

My thinking, from my understanding of the website, was if you start at a barriered station and end at an unbarriered: tap in to get through the barriers, then tap out immediately - so you don't get charged because they assume you decided not to travel.

Or if instead, your destination has a barrier, lean over and tap "in", then tap out as normal.

Provided you don't get caught by an RPI, simply waltz out at your destination, having not paid for your travel? Or am I misunderstanding how it works?

To be fair the TfL rules are absolutely incoherent, and defintely not what a normal punter would expect. You have to draw a balance on these things, and I'd say that SWR's decision is probably better

 

[Kite159]

I can't remember about Portsmouth Habour of hand but think it now is. Clapham Junction is gated and Portsmouth and Southsea also gated. As is Fratton but can't remember if that is in the Portsmouth Stations group.

However Clapham Junction also has a couple of pink oyster/contactless readers on P1/P2 and a handful of yellow readers on platform 17 so the barriers are easy enough to bypass by those who think payment is optional.

 

[Oldgaloot]

I'm probably missing the point, but how does the presence of pink oyster/contactless readers or yellow readers make it easier to avoid payment if all you have for your travel is a Guildford station bridge pass?

 

[infobleep]

However Clapham Junction also has a couple of pink oyster/contactless readers on P1/P2 and a handful of yellow readers on platform 17 so the barriers are easy enough to bypass by those who think payment is optional.

Of course they do, I forgot about them.

So I can continue to use the footbridge as a pedestrian, so long as I tap in and out using Tap2Go and ensure I pass through within 15 minutes. I.e. don't hang around and use the loo for too long

That shouldn't bother SWR because I am not trying to dodge my travel costs. I will try this out next time I need to go across.

 

[Oldgaloot]

That's partially answered my question: oyster readers and contactless readers are of zero use to you if you've blagged your way onto the platform at Guildford with a bridge pass and want to "dodge your travel costs" at Clapham Junction.

 

[boiledbeans2]

Well that's strange, as I'm a metro guard and I certainly have a few rostered runs down to Portsmouth...

Do metro guards check tickets?

Recently, I've seen a few SWR guards with only a mobile phone-looking device, scanning e-tickets. They didn't have a ticket machine around their waist. I don't know if they were metro guards though.

 

[lxfe_mxtterz]

Do metro guards check tickets?

Recently, I've seen a few SWR guards with only a mobile phone-looking device, scanning e-tickets. They didn't have a ticket machine around their waist. I don't know if they were metro guards though.

No - we are not trained to perform any sort of commercial duties. Realistically, and as I have been instructed, the most we can do in regards to tickets is check whether somebody in First Class has a valid ticket, and move them to Standard if they don't.*

I have an app on my work phone which supposedly checks smartcards, but I've never tried using it. Perhaps it was a commercial guard using an app of such that you saw?

*Although this would usually be in response to a customer complaint (e.g. rowdy kids) rather than a "full ticket check".

 

[Kite159]

That's partially answered my question: oyster readers and contactless readers are of zero use to you if you've blagged your way onto the platform at Guildford with a bridge pass and want to "dodge your travel costs" at Clapham Junction.

Use Bridge Pass to access Guildford Station, train to Clapham Junction, then touch into the TfL system to carry on journey, only paying for the section from Clapham to X.