Taunton Park and Ride Thoughts

[markymark2000]

With the thread ongoing in the First Buses of Somerset thread about the Taunton Park and Ride and how busy it is (or rather, how quiet it is) and with the contract change meaning it will now be operated by Stagecoach, I thought I would start a thread giving my thoughts on the Park and Ride. I didn't want to put this in the BoS thread as I think it would get moved anyway into it's own thread.

I've often wondered why Somerset Council hasn't tried to push for Taunton Gateway Park and Ride to become like Reading Mereoak and have it as a bus and intercity coach hub with the Park and Ride (and perhaps some other buses) acting as a shuttle to get passengers into the town. Instead, coaches are using the, in my opinion, unsuitable bus stop next to the BP garage on Blackbrook Park Way. Not only is there no shelter here and no facilities, from an accessibility perspective, I don't believe there to be enough space for coaches to safely deploy ramps/lifts for wheelchair passengers to safely board coaches.

Taunton Gateway I know isn't blessed with infrastructure but there is at least a shelter and if there were more passengers, especially those waiting on site longer, there would be a case for toilets, a bigger waiting area and other facilities. Plenty of parking so people can park here and do their trips away. For people walking to the coach stops, this would granted make it a longer walk for most people but in reality, how many people are walking to this coach stop? I know that from my attempts at using coaches here, I have just put it off as buses didn't connect up to the coach times and there wasn't anywhere suitable to wait anything longer than about 10 minutes. With Falcon reliability and great british weather what it is, I was certainly not risking anything. A proper interchange which plays a similar role that Reading Mereoak, Perth Broxden, Stirling Castleview and Dunfermline Park and Rides just as a few examples, could help to sky rocket Tauntons Park and Ride usage while also helping to attract more people to use the local bus network by way of using the local buses to connect with the coaches.

Just thought I'd share my thoughts and perhaps others may wish to come in on them.

 

[embers25]

The BP garage makes the Falcon stop much safer than the P and R to wait at late at night. You can also get snacks from the shop whilst waiting. Mereoak is a disaster taking ages to get to and from due to the many traffic lights. Cslcot was do much better and safer and faster . Before Flix sensibly moved the overnight stop to Reading Uni, regularly people would get off at 4am or on a Sunday to find no bus or taxi into Reading whereas Calcot has plenty of buses. I know mereoak has a Sunday bus now but only hourly.

Taunton P and R is also further from town whereas Blackbrook is walkable and has more buses. I've seen the lift used at Blackbrook so it can be done.

 

[markymark2000]

The BP garage makes the Falcon stop much safer than the P and R to wait at late at night. You can also get snacks from the shop whilst waiting. Mereoak is a disaster taking ages to get to and from due to the many traffic lights. Cslcot was do much better and safer and faster . Before Flix sensibly moved the overnight stop to Reading Uni, regularly people would get off at 4am or on a Sunday to find no bus or taxi into Reading whereas Calcot has plenty of buses. I know mereoak has a Sunday bus now but only hourly.

Taunton P and R is also further from town whereas Blackbrook is walkable and has more buses. I've seen the lift used at Blackbrook so it can be done.

Granted Mereoak has it's difficulties but it's main point was to highlight a better interchange between local buses and coaches which is better than a random bus stop on a random road. I have listed other areas where this model seems to work. I can add to the list some high profile ones too which I for some reason forgot about, Thornhill, High Wycombe and Milton Keynes. All very good, quality local bus and intercity coach interchanges. Right now there is no incentive for the council to invest in the Park and Ride as the service is kind of turn up and go and the site doesn't fulfil any purpose other than the park and ride. If the site was to form part of a larger interchange, I am sure that someone would have the sense to invest.

 

[embers25]

Mereoak is much worse than Calvot was for bus Interchange, safety and facilities. Just like Taunton P and R would be. I agree it should be doable but I wouldn't say MK Coachway or HW Coachway are ideal. Indeed bothered rather expensive disfunctional places which is partly why both struggle to get many coach services call.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

The BP garage makes the Falcon stop much safer than the P and R to wait at late at night. You can also get snacks from the shop whilst waiting. Mereoak is a disaster taking ages to get to and from due to the many traffic lights. Cslcot was do much better and safer and faster . Before Flix sensibly moved the overnight stop to Reading Uni, regularly people would get off at 4am or on a Sunday to find no bus or taxi into Reading whereas Calcot has plenty of buses. I know mereoak has a Sunday bus now but only hourly.

Taunton P and R is also further from town whereas Blackbrook is walkable and has more buses. I've seen the lift used at Blackbrook so it can be done.

Absolutely agree. Taunton Gateway is much more remote and foreboding than Blackbrook. What Blackbrook needs is a bus shelter!

Other issues with Taunton Gateway. It's a greater hassle timewise. More importantly, the park and ride sites are closed at night to stop travellers from entering the site. That's happened on 3 occasions. That's one reason why Somerset Council haven't pushed it to become some sort of interchange.

Perhaps the more fundamental issue is that they still permit (and charge for nearer the town centre) on-street parking down much of East Reach (the main road leading east from the town centre towards the M5). I know it was mentioned in the Somerset BSIP proposal but imagine if they did decide to remove the on-street parking and instead have a bus and cycle lane (not taxis) to avoid the worst of the traffic congestion?

 

[markymark2000]

What Blackbrook needs is a bus shelter!

A big shelter, full timetables, safe pedestrian crossings and a higher quality interchange with local bus services. All missing.

Other issues with Taunton Gateway. It's a greater hassle timewise. More importantly, the park and ride sites are closed at night to stop travellers from entering the site. That's happened on 3 occasions. That's one reason why Somerset Council haven't pushed it to become some sort of interchange.

I thought that the Park and Ride was open more hours as it's used by Hinckley Point shuttles isn't it?


What is it that would make Taunton Gateway as an interchange anything majorly different to the other examples which are relatively successful?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

A big shelter, full timetables, safe pedestrian crossings and a higher quality interchange with local bus services. All missing.


I thought that the Park and Ride was open more hours as it's used by Hinckley Point shuttles isn't it?


What is it that would make Taunton Gateway as an interchange anything majorly different to the other examples which are relatively successful?

Good point - part of the site is leased to EDF under a temporary arrangement though that'll drop off in the next year as the amount of construction begins to decrease. Were it not for that, the site would be as poorly utilised as Silk Mills.

The concept isn't necessarily bad but other sites are much larger and have many more facilities - Thornhill, Wycombe, MK - and they feel much more secure. Taunton Gateway is essentially a large carpark in the countryside, on the wrong side of the motorway, with a small bus shelter and no facilities (unlike Silk Mills that does have a decent building). Might also point out that there are relatively few services - half a dozen Flixbus a day, two Falcons an hour. Even NX don't have that many services these days, so that's why I don't think it's quite like for like.

Also, I have to chuckle at the interchange with local bus services... aside from the P&R, the well-nigh skeletal network is hardly going to encourage much modal shift. 90 min headways on the 30 and 54, nothing on Sunday, next to nothing on evenings. As I say, if you want to sort make Taunton P&R more sustainable, there's more pressing things to look at like being sat in glue pot traffic on a P&R bus that has little to nothing bus priority, especially when you see the amount spending on road building in the last 20-30 years

 

[CD]

Good point - part of the site is leased to EDF under a temporary arrangement though that'll drop off in the next year as the amount of construction begins to decrease. Were it not for that, the site would be as poorly utilised as Silk Mills.

The concept isn't necessarily bad but other sites are much larger and have many more facilities - Thornhill, Wycombe, MK - and they feel much more secure. Taunton Gateway is essentially a large carpark in the countryside, on the wrong side of the motorway, with a small bus shelter and no facilities (unlike Silk Mills that does have a decent building). Might also point out that there are relatively few services - half a dozen Flixbus a day, two Falcons an hour. Even NX don't have that many services these days, so that's why I don't think it's quite like for like.

Also, I have to chuckle at the interchange with local bus services... aside from the P&R, the well-nigh skeletal network is hardly going to encourage much modal shift. 90 min headways on the 30 and 54, nothing on Sunday, next to nothing on evenings. As I say, if you want to sort make Taunton P&R more sustainable, there's more pressing things to look at like being sat in glue pot traffic on a P&R bus that has little to nothing bus priority, especially when you see the amount spending on road building in the last 20-30 years

54 is cut back even further, it is now every 2 hours.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

54 is cut back even further, it is now every 2 hours.

Oh yeah - it is now. Seems a long time since the 30 and 54 were hourly.

 

[richard13]

When the Gateway was being planned, it was being discussed that the Falcon and NX would serve it as a transport hub. However on completion the site is locked outside of town P&R hours and so the late and overnight journeys cannot serve it. Thus the coaches went elsewhere; the Blackbrook stop was very much a last minute emergency arrangement, which has stuck. It ought to be open 24/7 as a motorway P&R with probably charges. May be make the town bus free instead. The bus has of course in recent years become the town to hospital bus and hospital P&R as well as the original P&R.

Somerset is sparsely populated and not generally with spare money - car ownership will be high, because there is no choice and doubling the frequency on the main road is of little or no help. With the reduction in town centre shopping and hospitality the bus network will never be great - school / college journeys and some bits in between.

 

[markymark2000]

The concept isn't necessarily bad but other sites are much larger and have many more facilities - Thornhill, Wycombe, MK - and they feel much more secure. Taunton Gateway is essentially a large carpark in the countryside, on the wrong side of the motorway, with a small bus shelter and no facilities (unlike Silk Mills that does have a decent building). Might also point out that there are relatively few services - half a dozen Flixbus a day, two Falcons an hour. Even NX don't have that many services these days, so that's why I don't think it's quite like for like.

In it's current state, Gateway is a dump, I agree but as I say in the opening post, if the facilities of the site were improved, that of course makes it a very different situation. For the council, why invest in a facility which currently doesn't have many passengers and those few passengers don't stay on site long. In a big combined effort, if companies agreed to move the coaches there, the needs of the site change and so logically the council would put toilets and a building there and things which such an interchange needs.

Service wise, 2 Hourly Falcons, Flix is on upto 4 per day now but I believe that is going up with the April timetable. 4 Megabus per day from January and possibly Berrys could be convinced to stop there on their SF2. NatEx doesn't stop at Blackbrook currently but is that due to the location and facilities at the stop?

I know that Reading Mereoak has it's faults (mostly the lack of later buses) but surely in it's current state, isn't Gateway is on par with Mereoak (which while Mereoak may not be the most loved, it seems to work, Flixbus has stayed serving there as has NatEx)? With investment, wouldn't it be on par with Perth Broxden or Stirling Castleview as a medium quality Park and Ride with coach connections?

Also, I have to chuckle at the interchange with local bus services... aside from the P&R, the well-nigh skeletal network is hardly going to encourage much modal shift. 90 min headways on the 30 and 54, nothing on Sunday, next to nothing on evenings. As I say, if you want to sort make Taunton P&R more sustainable, there's more pressing things to look at like being sat in glue pot traffic on a P&R bus that has little to nothing bus priority, especially when you see the amount spending on road building in the last 20-30 years

It's not the best network in the world but with investment, the site could act as an out of town interchange between some of the routes.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

In it's current state, Gateway is a dump, I agree but as I say in the opening post, if the facilities of the site were improved, that of course makes it a very different situation. For the council, why invest in a facility which currently doesn't have many passengers and those few passengers don't stay on site long. In a big combined effort, if companies agreed to move the coaches there, the needs of the site change and so logically the council would put toilets and a building there and things which such an interchange needs.

Service wise, 2 Hourly Falcons, Flix is on upto 4 per day now but I believe that is going up with the April timetable. 4 Megabus per day from January and possibly Berrys could be convinced to stop there on their SF2. NatEx doesn't stop at Blackbrook currently but is that due to the location and facilities at the stop?

I know that Reading Mereoak has it's faults (mostly the lack of later buses) but surely in it's current state, isn't Gateway is on par with Mereoak (which while Mereoak may not be the most loved, it seems to work, Flixbus has stayed serving there as has NatEx)? With investment, wouldn't it be on par with Perth Broxden or Stirling Castleview as a medium quality Park and Ride with coach connections?

As I said above, the concept is fine. However, the council are cutting the service provision to save costs so the likelihood of them spending money on building better facilities (plus the ongoing costs of security and maintenance) seems pretty remote at the moment unless it can be tied to greater redevelopment of the area and s106 funding.

TBH Taunton P&R has been very lucky not to go the same way as Worcester's.

It's not the best network in the world but with investment, the site could act as an out of town interchange between some of the routes.

A masterpiece of understatement

As I've said, the issues with Taunton's P&R are much more fundamental, and reflect the poor bus priority plus the availability and price of parking in the town.

 

[Peter Philips]

When the Gateway was being planned, it was being discussed that the Falcon and NX would serve it as a transport hub. However on completion the site is locked outside of town P&R hours and so the late and overnight journeys cannot serve it. Thus the coaches went elsewhere; the Blackbrook stop was very much a last minute emergency arrangement, which has stuck.

Yes the original Falcon marketing even showed the Taunton stop as using the Gateway site but it was then altered to the BP garage just before the service started, but originally stopping on the opposite side of the road to it (one driver even said he didn't consider the opposite stop safe & unofficially stopped outside the garage instead before the Falcon stop was officially moved across the road).

I also note that the Berrys FlixBus London 045 has switched to using the BP garage from using the nearby Taunton Riverside (Heron Gate) stop off A358 Hawkridge Rounabout it originally used when I used it.

 

[Stan Drews]

I don’t the dynamics of the Taunton site, however many of these ‘P&R’ sites, that are used by long distance coach services, are more likely to be used for kiss & ride, as the locations are often much more convenient as drop off/pick up points. Town/city centre locations are often difficult places to drop off/pick up from.
If the locations are close to the motorway network, then it’s even more appealing from the coach operators perspective, as the time penalty for those on longer journeys is reduced.