Tavistock to Bere Alston possible reopening: what infrastructure could be required and what service provision might operate?

[oglord]

additional work will need to be done which will cost far more than it would have done initially - just like the Ebbw Vale line really!

Well, that was political - make Monmouthshire western valleys line run via the main line to Cardiff, rather than the logical end of the line in Newport.

 

[oattam09]

It would make more sense to add in a passing loop at the same time that the Tavistock section is reinstated, but that isn't really the British way. It's much more likely that the line will be put back, and far more people from the surrounding area will flock to Tavistock for the train to Plymouth than was forecast,

This will result ina clamour for a better service and better trains, and additional work will need to be done which will cost far more than it would have done initially - just like the Ebbw Vale line really!

You are absolutely right, if this is developer led they will do the absolute minimum (the cheapest way) to meet their end of the contract. This will make the route slower and less attractive. Tavy-Plymouth is a really worthwhile route, and the railway could compete with the car/bus easily if unnecessary waiting for clear routes can be eliminated, simply with a bit of double tracking or more loops. Equally, unless further funding is found to put infrastructure for the future development of the route in place, it will be much more expensive/harder to justify in the further down the line, if you pardon the pun.

 

[DavidBrown]

The only problem I can see in the Tavistock areas are of course the station site – which im afraid award winning B&B or no B&B, a compulsory purchase order would have to be required for the site – as would the requirement of the West Devon Borough Council to relocate as their offices are located just on the edge of the curve just to the east of the station site – Apart from that and a couple of extended gardens to the west of Tavistock, the trackbed from Meldon to Bere Alston fortunately, remains pretty clear.

You are aware that Tavistock station will be on a new site, and not go to the old station buildings? The new station will be in a field just off the A390, with the housing development planned around it. No compulsory purchasing needed, assuming that the developers already own the field(s) in question.

 

[yorksrob]

You are aware that Tavistock station will be on a new site, and not go to the old station buildings? The new station will be in a field just off the A390, with the housing development planned around it. No compulsory purchasing needed, assuming that the developers already own the field(s) in question.

As long as they protect the route North at the same time !

 

[moggie]

Perhaps they could just split the trains at Bere Alston in true Southern style !

It appears to me that the initially (the minimal cost solution) is to extend the present One Train Working method of working for the Gunnislake Branch extended to include the new Tavistock section of line, hence only one train alternating between Gunnislake or Tavistock. This keeps the signalling alterations to pretty much nil.

Any proposal to increase the service to enable simultaneous operation to both Gunnislake and Tavistock would clearly need alterations to the signalling arrangement to provide either a passing point between Plymouth and Bere Alston or attaching / detaching facilities at Bere Alston to allow the train to go foward to / from Plymouth as combined portions as suggested. Either way a cost which I guess will only be justified based on proven demand - let's hope so.

 

[yorksrob]

It appears to me that the initially (the minimal cost solution) is to extend the present One Train Working method of working for the Gunnislake Branch extended to include the new Tavistock section of line, hence only one train alternating between Gunnislake or Tavistock. This keeps the signalling alterations to pretty much nil.

Any proposal to increase the service to enable simultaneous operation to both Gunnislake and Tavistock would clearly need alterations to the signalling arrangement to provide either a passing point between Plymouth and Bere Alston or attaching / detaching facilities at Bere Alston to allow the train to go foward to / from Plymouth as combined portions as suggested. Either way a cost which I guess will only be justified based on proven demand - let's hope so.

As long as the initial section doesn't involve a large residential/industrial estate right across the section needed to get to Okehampton, I'm ok

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

There are two points that I now see as relevant:-

1)...The FGW franchaise will only run until 2013, as they have chosen not to take on the optional final three years up to 2016.

2)...Kilbride Group do not appear to have published any updated documentation in the nine months since the December 2010 updated position statement.

 

[noddy1878]

Just read back abit - most of this was also discussed last summer on the Gunnislake Line thread, but as its pretty much relevant to what where discussing here, ill pretty much repeat my comment from last June

http://railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=33950

What needs to be done for the railways of Devon, is pretty much on the lines of this:

The former Southern region mainline into Plymouth Needs to see some sort of eventual reinstatement but ideally carried out like this.

Exeter to Plymouth via Crediton, Okehampton, and Tavistock should be reinstated as double track and upgraded stations to a point just after Okehampton – (Potentially Meldon, but this has been hindered by the construction of the fairly newish bridge carrying the A30 over the route was unfortunately built to accommodate a single track route only!) with the section from Okehampton west / Meldon to East of Tavistock gaining 90/100 mph continuous welded rail on steel sleepers with Bi Directional Signalling and at least 1 or 2 Dynamic Passing Loops (dependt on passing loop lengths) with a station halt – on one of the loops at Lydford.

Then, arriving into Tavistock, around the Wilminstone Viaduct are, the line would then go back to double track for the rest of the route until the junction at St Budeaux Victoria Road.

The only problem I can see in the Tavistock areas are of course the station site – which im afraid award winning B&B or no B&B, a compulsory purchase order would have to be required for the site – as would the requirement of the West Devon Borough Council to relocate as their offices are located just on the edge of the curve just to the east of the station site – Apart from that and a couple of extended gardens to the west of Tavistock, the trackbed from Meldon to Bere Alston fortunately, remains pretty clear.

Next stage– Tavistock to Plymouth. Double track from Tavistock all the way down to St Budeaux Victoria Road, with reinstated second platforms at each station – the main potential source of expense on this section could be the refurbishment of the former Southern region viaducts en route – Tavy viaduct and the Tamerton Foliot viaduct (first one from St Bedeaux

Now, turning to the services bit, this is how id like / expect to see the services operated like this:

South West Trains would then operate an hourly service from Waterloo to Plymouth via Okehampton – with services calling at:
Exeter St Davids,
Crediton,
Sampford Courtenay,
Okehampton,
Tavistock
Bere Alston,
St Budeaux Victoria Road – Potential interchange for Cornish bound services and west of Plymouth bus services
Plymouth

With First Great Western operating the all stations services and newly formed Gunnislake shuttles:

Devonport
Dockyard
Keyham
St Budeaux Victoria Road
Bere Ferris
Bere Alston - Change for Gunnislake Shuttles} Tavistock to Gunnislake shuttle– 153 Operated
Tavistock - Change for Gunnislake Shuttles} Tavistock to Gunnislake shuttle– 153 Operated

Tamar Valley line services would now operate Plymouth (North Road) to Tavistock, or if the other plan I produced last year has / had the potential to come to fruition:

Friary,
Laira
Plymouth,
Devonport
Dockyard
Keyham
St Budeaux Victoria Road
Bere Ferris
Bere Alston - Change for Gunnislake Shuttles} TSK to GSL shuttle– 153 Operated
Tavistock - Change for Gunnislake Shuttles} Tavistock to Gunnislake shuttle– 153 Operated

And the Exeter to Exeter circular service could call at:

Exeter St Davids
Marsh Barton (Future Planned Station)
Exminster (Future Planned Station)
Dawlish
Teignmouth
Newton Abbot
Totnes
Ivybridge
Plympton?
Plymouth
Devonport
Dockyard
Keyham
St Budeaux Victoria Road
Bere Ferris
Bere Alston
Tavistock
Lydford (Would be on the Dynamic Loop)
Meldon - Railhead for the Dartmoor area
Okehampton (Change for bus services to Bude, unless D&C Railways start on reinstatement of the Bude branch towards Holdsworthy)
Sampford Courtney
Bow (Fairly close to Copplestone so station could, or could not be included in reopening)
Yeoford (Interchange for Barnstaple / Bideford services)
Crediton (Interchange for Barnstaple / Bideford services)
Newton St Cyres (Depending on Passenger loadings on the Barnstaple services)
Exeter St Davids

This plan at least providing a diversionary route for FGWs ‘Intercity’ services & Cross Country services when there’s problems along the sea wall and engineering works, and local services and a competitive express service from Plymouth to Exeter / London

As for the Kilbride Group proposal, its good and I for one would certainly like to finally come into fruition – only problem is, this proposal has been around for a good few years, and at the last stage I heard that its was more development funded than government funded – ala development of 250 (I believe) houses, and the line gets built – Which as all very well, but they of course require planning permission, and if that’s turned down, then no houses = blow for the chances of having the line reinstated…

The other slight problem I have is with the consultants plans – firstly the use of 153s on the route displacing 150s, and the timetable provided.

153s are good units, don’t get me wrong, but unless they are operated as a 2 car service, then overcrowding could pretty easily result, especially as Tavistock would also act as a railhead for west Devon / north Cornwall / Kernow – With improved bus services, Launceston, Bude? Etc…

Also, the Timetable – I have to admit I find rather strange…Ok, so whilst the route in its current form is somewhat limited in not having any passing loops, but surely it would be possible to install a Penryn style passing loop somewhere en route? And the other thing I find rather odd about the timetable, is whilst Tavistock gets its service and Gunnislake gets its reduced, the Tavistock services are listed as fast – Tavistock, Bere Alston, Plymouth – Which then completely misses out Bere Ferris, St Budeaux Victoria Road, Keyham, Dockyard & Devonport stations…

What id rather see in this case, is potentially the Gunnislake service becoming a shuttle from Tavistock – operated by a single 153 shuttle, whilst the new Tavistock service then takes over the current Gunnislake service calling pattern on an hourly basis – Potentially Half hourly with a Penryn style passing loop at Bere Ferris.

So that’s pretty much by take on it – sorry for the long post!

That's a good post. I would like to see that and services back to friary would be good. I maybe biased though cos I live down that way and would then be nearest station instead of a 25 minute uphill walk to the station. The last train down to friary was a tour and I was on it! Before that was the Friday only scrap train to Cattedown but that's long since stopped.

 

[NXEA!]

Personally I think the developers should fork out a further 5 Million and build a 2 coach long bay platform at Bere Alston: The journey from Bere to Gunnislake takes 19-21 minutes each way, so you could run an hourly service with 1 train with roughly a 10 minute turn around at both Bere and Gunnislake, if you operated the service as a shuttle. For Tavistock, the journey takes 27 minutes each way; so you could operate an hourly service with one train, however it would be tight, but certainly doable. If you timed the Tavistock service to connect at Bere Alston with the Gunnislake service, this would allow an improved hourly service to both places. To be honest I think the Gunnislake shuttle could get away with being a 153 and the Tavistock service a 150. You would only have to source an additional 153; I'm sure if you tightened up the diagramming and maintenance schedule's on their existing fleet you could release a spare 153. It just seems silly that for a few million more they can justify the cost of the railway better and make it more attractive to potential customers.

 

[185]

Think it would make sense to have a 153 set on a shuttle Bere Alston-Calstock-Gunnislake, whilst having a half hourly 153+150 (a 3 car) on the busy Tavistock to Plymouths. The roads from Tavvy into plymouth are rammed and large growth could come with a 'proper' frequest train service.

Could be an idea to push Network Rail to up the linespeeds as there are some painfully slow places on the line. Bere Alston is a perfect place to introduce a second, and even third platform - for a passing loop and a bay platform for a Gunnislake shuttle.

The Gunnislake shuttle would be ideal for the next generation of small PPM, but it would need to be good on hills

 

[NSEFAN]

The PPM at Stourbridge seems to manage fine on the steep branch there. Are the gradients more severe for the Gunnislake branch?

 

[Trainbuff]

Yes as some of you are aware I am all for reopening this line. And eventually as a Diversionary route all the wat to Meldon. I am however an eternal optimist!

I am going to be quite pragmatic here i am afraid. There are of course certain things that have to be pointed out.

For the route in the thread (Bere Alston & Tavistock), much has already been identified that needs to be done and I would refer you to the Killbride site given in the first post. particular reference should be made to the Jacobs Phase 2 Report

http://www.kilbridegroup.com/tavistock/Jacobs-Phase-2-Report.pdf

and for reference to the A386 road and the impact this has on the BCR (Benefit Cost Ratio)

http://www.westdevon.gov.uk/upload/public/attachments/1069/Tavistock to Plymouth corridor.pdf

This points out that cars and buses can take up to an hour in peak times to get to Plymouth. The rail line will take less than 30 minutes.

All the above give a BCR of 3.5 which is high.

Killbride have of course chosen the cheapest option, but this does give the above BCR. Just after Bere Alston an Embankment is missing and will have to be rebuilt, as will an bridge over a small roadway just after this embankment.

I suspect that Killbride will only build thes to single track specifications.

It has also to be said that although I agree that the service to Gunnislake would be reduced, that there are still appropriate Commuter services.Tavistock is the largest town in Devon without a railway and some of the people who travel to Gunnislake would go to Tavistock.

I believe that within a few years of opening that a passing loop would have to be installed at Bere Alston as frequency to Tavistock would need to be increased. It would make sense to stop tavistock trains at Devonport as this is the most used small station in Plymouth. However, the other small stations in Plymouth are not heavily used. All trains would still have to stop at St Budeaux Victoria Road in any case. At least until Signalling is improved at St Budeaux Junction. I am not sure when this is due to be done exactly, but sometime between 2018 and 2022 I believe Plymouth Signal Box will be replaced. This would be the obvious time to make these alterations, in much the same way as Parson Street Junction (for possible Portishead reopening) will be done in 2016 when signalling is replaced.

As for the remainder of the route to Meldon and on to Exeter. Several considerations would have to be taken into account.

On the approach to Tavistock a bridge has been removed that went over the road between Tavistock and Gunnislake as it had limited headroom. The track would need to be raised and the Bridge replaced.

Mention has already been made of the Devon Council offices and B&B on the site of the old station. (It must be noted that the council supports Rail reinstatement), though many were dissapointed that the section between Tavistock and Okehampton was NOT included in the most recent Local Transport Plan.

The site of Lydford station is home to much unusual wildlife and is a reserve.This could preclude development of a passing loop here.

Meldon Viaduct would need srengthening. It is a listed structure currently supported financially by a Charity. I would suspect that only a single line could be used across the viaduct. Even when it was last used as a through route there was a 20mph speed limit. Meldon Viaduct's condition was one of the reasons given for closing the line, but that did not stop it being used as a headshunt for the Quarry for many years and for lorries laden with stone using it when construction of Meldon Resevoir was underway!

The single track bridge under the A30 could be dualled at cost.

I understand that the passenger service between Okehampton and Exeter is likely not to start until 2012 at the earliest, but at least DCR are still keen on the idea. This is in the Local Transport plan, including a new Park and Ride car park for the railway.

Perhaps the biggest stumbling blocks to reopening the whole line are the current financial situation, the sparsity of population compared to the route around Dawlish and the lack of political will.

On the last point it should be noted that the Government has made promises to keep the line open aroun Dawlish as have Network Rail. The route via Okehampton could really only be a diversionary route (though it would have a large catchment area from North Cornwall and devon) at least for the time being. After all the Torbay conurbation is very populous. Even if the Sea Wall was breached a rail service would have to continue due to the amount of business originating there. This may involve building a line inland,but not for some time yet.

However, for this reopening we can be optimistic. If we have services travelling to Okehampton AND Tavistock there is only 15.5 miles left to build.

The whole line was built for Double track mainline running.

I reason that if speeds could be attained at a conservative 60-65mph (like most of the line between Plymouth and exeter currently is, Exminster excepted), then if passing places were provided at Bere Alston, Okehampton, and a dynamic loop between Crediton and Coleford Junction (there are already 2 parallel tracks here). This really is just returning the physical Junction to Coleford. It is presently at Crediton. Again this could be accomplished with resignalling being done in the area.Then a train could leave Exeter St Davids at xx50 mins, leave Plymouth at xx20. These trains would pass at Yeoford (near Coleford Junction) and again at Bere Alston. These times would still allow branch services to Gunnislake/Tavistock, Okehampton and North Devon to continue.

If line speeds could be increased further, say to the suggested 95-100mph then additional services could pass at Okehampton. Many of the small stations between Okehampton and Yeoford were not heavily used due to them being geographically distant from the villages they allegedly served! But if there were enough pressure they could be reopened.

Of course double tracking would be the ultimate. perhaps starting with extending the passing loops to re dual larger sections of the line as already stated in the previous posts.

Potentially not only SWT trains could use this route. Why not some Cross Country services. This would gives crews route knowledge and passengers direct access to the Midlands, the North and Scotland. These cross country trains could run near the times that the current services leave/arrive Paignton. This would mean that the only station to lose crosscountry connections would be Totnes. Of course, it would not make sense for Cornish services to go via this way, but maybe 3 or 4 a day each way.

SWT trains would be good for a connection to London but in such a case they should be limited stopper between Exeter and Salisbury, otherwise many people will just change services at Exeter and travel to Paddington instead of Waterloo.

I do think that some of the ideas about local services in Devon are spot on.b FGRich has well thought this out as well.

I know this post goes on a bit, it took me ages to write too! I bet I still have forgotten something important as well! Lol

 

[yorksrob]

Mention has already been made of the Devon Council offices and B&B on the site of the old station. (It must be noted that the council supports Rail reinstatement), though many were dissapointed that the section between Tavistock and Okehampton was NOT included in the most recent Local Transport Plan.

I think most Local Authorities are trying to cut costs and dispose of large parts of their estates through increased working from home etc. This might actually be an opportunity for the Council.

 

[martinsh]

Any idea how long the plymouth-exeter journey time would be?

79 minutes ?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

.Tavistock is the largest town in Devon without a railway

Not it's not. Brixham is much bigger, for a start.

 

[DavidBrown]

Not it's not. Brixham is much bigger, for a start.

As is Bideford and Tiverton (unless you count the Parkway, even though it's 6 miles from the town itself).

 

[martinsh]

As is Bideford and Tiverton (unless you count the Parkway, even though it's 6 miles from the town itself).

Gunnislake is actually only 4 miles from Tavistock, so perhaps the solution is to rename it to Tavistock Parkway ?!:roll:

 

[Trainbuff]

I see there is mention in the thread of trains leaving at xx20 and xx50. I had worked this out and put it forward when asking for signatures on the e-petition. The distance from Exeter to Plymouth is under 60 miles. Reasoning trains travelling at 60mph only and allowing for speed checks at meldon as well as station stops I reason that providing the track is upgrded it would take trains around 65 minutes, which is reasonably favourable to the present route. Raising speed still further would reduce these timings again.In fact if line speeds could be raised to 90mph I reckon that the trip could be done in 50 minutes, including station stops.

As stated before, other than plain track between Tavistock and Okehampton the only major infrastructure needed would be a passing loop at Bere Alston, or if more money available a re-modelled Killbride Tavistock station, re installing a point at Okehampton and moving the Junction from Crediton to Coleford (though retaining both current lines to form a 3 mile long dynamic loop.

Signalling would need to be installed of course.

Incidentally in BR days, sometime around 1960 or 1961, the weight limit was raised for Meldon Viaduct to enable rebuilt Bulleid Light Pacifics to use the line.

Also in Southern Days there was a spped check of 40mph at Coleford Junction on the curve. Additionally a 40mph restriction was imposed between Bridestowe, I Believe, though I am not 100% certain of this location , most of the way to Plymouth. This was because it cut down on maintenance costs and the Southern viewed the line to Barnstaple as more important.

I am not sure when, or if, these restrictions were raised in BR days. Iam fortunate that an old Southern engineman and his wife live near me. Unfortunately he died earlier this year, though his wife has recounted many a tale of her travelling back late at night from her mums at Brentor and on one occasion being 'thrown around the carriage because the driver wanted to get home!'

This line was built to mainline standards and is certainly no more curvy than the current route. In fact in many places less so.

I hope this throws some light on the subject

 

[Trainbuff]

I notice that Killbride, the main contractors, have now signed an agreement with Bovis homes to build the 750 houses and that the core strategy has been adopted. Killbride will now be putting efforts into a Transport and Works Order (TWO). See below

http://www.kilbridegroup.com/docs/news.asp

Using the timescale provided in the document listed below that could mean reopening by the end of 2014.

http://www.kilbridegroup.com/tavisto...ber 2010.pdf

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I wonder if this latest news will have any motivation for the future Railfuture hopes for the Bere Alston to Okehampton hoped-for line reopening?

 

[DavidBrown]

I wonder if this latest news will have any motivation for the future Railfuture hopes for the Bere Alston to Okehampton hoped-for line reopening?

Whilst having the section to Tavistock will undoubtedly help, the section between Tavistock and Okehampton is a far bigger challenge, with developments in Tavistock, a cycle path to accomodate for the whole length and you'd need a second viaduct at Meldon, which IMO is probably the killer blow for such a project. You could maybe justify a new viaduct on that scale in a national park if you were connecting two major cities, but given Plymouth's diminishing importance all round, the cost cannot be justified. There's a hundered rail projects in the south west that are of greater importance, I'm afraid.

(Sorry to be a realist!)

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I must confess the matter of the second viaduct at Meldon is a rather large financial problem to overcome..:roll:

I think that Plymouth still has an important role to play in its region, providing the correct forward planning is brought to bear.

 

[Oliver]

Whilst having the section to Tavistock will undoubtedly help, the section between Tavistock and Okehampton is a far bigger challenge, with developments in Tavistock, a cycle path to accomodate for the whole length and you'd need a second viaduct at Meldon, which IMO is probably the killer blow for such a project. You could maybe justify a new viaduct on that scale in a national park if you were connecting two major cities, but given Plymouth's diminishing importance all round, the cost cannot be justified. There's a hundered rail projects in the south west that are of greater importance, I'm afraid.

(Sorry to be a realist!)

Please don't apologise for being a realist. It's very important to realise that there is small pot of money for rail investment, and it's important to select projects that will have the biggest impact. There is no urgent need for a second route between Exeter and Plymouth. I regard the continuing use of Pacers as the biggest obstacle to increase rail use in Devon - what car user is going to get into one of those out of choice?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

It's very important to realise that there is small pot of money for rail investment, and it's important to select projects that will have the biggest impact...... I regard the continuing use of Pacers as the biggest obstacle to increase rail use in Devon - what car user is going to get into one of those out of choice?

May I ask what would be the top three rail projects that you would like to see in Devon that would meet with your criteria of challenging for the finite amount of rail finance ?

You are "preaching to the converted" up here in "Northernland" about Pacers of any description and to add insult to injury, we seem to be still the target of some of the Pacer stocks from other regions, once they have other stock cascaded upon them. We appear to be the Pacer version of "The Elephants' Graveyard"..:roll:

 

[Trainbuff]

I agree about the cost issues. Even Devon county Ciouncil have not put the reopening proposal into their transport plan for the next 10 years.

This is likely to be a long term thing. With Tavistock not reopened till the end of 2014 at the earliest there is plenty of time.

Given the right investment the problem of Meldon can be overcome, the cycle track as well.

It is largely down to money AND political willingness. Of course if the cost of petrol keeps going up these schemes become much more viable. Whether replacing Meldon or beibng able to use the current structure with additional work done to it.

As for Plymouth. This is the largest City in the South West, apart from Bristol.

Plymouth station generates considerable revenue as well as providing a large catchment area. So maybe the MOD is diminishing at the Naval base. But the current flagship is based here (HMS OCEAN) and many Royal Marines.

I do not believe that Plymouth is of Diminishing importance and if so I would love to see what facts this is based on.

I see the reopening of Bere Alston-Tavistock as a good 1st step as would be the regular service proposed from Okehampton to Exeter.

Tavistock to Okehampton, whilst a more distant possibility, has now at least the chance of being looked at seriously in the future

 

[ACE1888]

Interesting developments then it appears, the sooner Tavistock rejoins the Network the better, and Bere Alston once again becomes a Junction station. WHEN the line is rebuilt, hopefully it will act as a 'catalyst' for more reopenings of our great rail network in Britain.

 

[Oliver]

May I ask what would be the top three rail projects that you would like to see in Devon that would meet with your criteria of challenging for the finite amount of rail finance ?

Without giving this too much thought....I would say (1) replacing Pacers with 170's (useful order for Bombardier), (2) Rejigging FGW timetable to give faster journey time to Plymouth by reducing stops on key services and maybe removing a coach from a few of their HST's to improve performance, and (3) extending some SWT services from Barnstaple/Paignton/Plymouth.

I cannot get enthused about a regular service to Okehampton - I just don't think there's enough demand.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

May I ask what would be the top three rail projects that you would like to see in Devon that would meet with your criteria of challenging for the finite amount of rail finance ?

Without giving this too much thought....I would say (1) replacing Pacers with 170's (useful order for Bombardier), (2) Rejigging FGW timetable to give faster journey time to Plymouth by reducing stops on key services and maybe removing a coach from a few of their HST's to improve performance, and (3) extending some SWT services from Barnstaple/Paignton/Plymouth.

Thank you for your responses and these seem quite interesting, especially (2). The only thing that worries me is your (1) part that concerns Pacer replacement, as every time this is mentioned, the stock reply is "Send them to Northern!!!. Strangely enough, for some reason, there has been yet another Pacer replacement thread that has just been set up on the Infrastructure Forum ..:roll:

 

[DavidBrown]

May I ask what would be the top three rail projects that you would like to see in Devon that would meet with your criteria of challenging for the finite amount of rail finance ?

For me;

1. Improving the Devon Metro (Exmouth-Paignton) service. New stations are planned for Exmouth, Newcourt, Monkerton, Marsh Barton, Exminster, Kingskerswell and Edginswell, and I believe that with the exception of Exminster all would be well used. Of course you couldn't fit all these stops in the existing timetable or on the existing infrastructure, so some new passing loops and dualling would be required, but I think that it would help Exeter's woeful road traffic situation.

2. Increasing capacity on the Exeter-Salisbury line. Dualling has been talked about for a long long time now, and it is becoming more essential with the construction of the IMF terminal at Exeter. Whilst it is only a short distance between the terminal and the dualled track from Pinhoe, it means all freight traffic tackling St Davids Hill and straight into St Davids station where platforms 1 & 3 have little spare capacity. It would be far more ideal to send it via Yeovil, and you could potentially get away with just longer passing loops. The other thing I would do on that line is lengthen the station platforms at Whimple and Feniton to take 6 car trains.

3. Passing loops on the Tarka Line. I believe (with prehaps some bias) that having a half hour service would be of real benefit to the area with Barnstaple being fairly isolated on the rail network as it is. All you need is a passing loop at Umberleigh and to reinstate Coleford Junction to give 3 miles of dual track to Crediton. The biggest cost would be to install signalling, but bear in mind that there isn't a system to replace (tokens are used on the line north of Crediton), so the decommisioning costs are extremely minimal, and as such the project as a whole would be a lot cheaper than it would be elsewhere.


I'd personally also consider replacement of rolling stock, electrification to Exeter and/or Plymouth, better local services and new stations between Newton Abbot and Plymouth and improvements to some stations (especially Exeter Central) to be of higher priority than reopening Tavistock to Okehampton. You also have to remember that reopening this line won't actually be of any benefit to Plymouth whatsoever. The mainline, even in its inadequate state, is faster and has a lot more capacity than the Dartmoor railway. The only town that would benefit is Okehampton, and it simply isn't worth it, however much I'd love to see it happen.

 

[yorksrob]

I think Tavistock - Okehampton is certainly a very valid long term aim. Don't forget that both Okehampton and Tavistock are important local hubs for their surrounding areas and the link between the two would be an important boost for connectivity in the whole area.

With regard to priorities, I would say that additional rather than replacement rolling stock should be high up there, and having seen how busy the HST's get I think that performance gains from removing a carriage would be far outweighed by the increased overcrowding.

As for the top, getting Tavistock re-opened, and capacity enhancements on the Honiton route for me.

 

[Oliver]

Thank you for your responses and these seem quite interesting, especially (2). The only thing that worries me is your (1) part that concerns Pacer replacement, as every time this is mentioned, the stock reply is "Send them to Northern!!!. Strangely enough, for some reason, there has been yet another Pacer replacement thread that has just been set up on the Infrastructure Forum ..:roll:

I would recommend using the FGW Pacers to create an artificial diving reef some miles off the coast, as is currently being discussed for the Ark Royal.

Others have suggested increased capacity on the Salisbury line. As a regular user of that line I don't think more loops are needed in the short term. The present infrastructure can support the proposed twice-per-hour Exeter to Axminster service. The London trains rarely run full, and many are 3-coaches west of Salisbury; if you want more capacity buy a few more 159-compatible units.