Taxi 'improvements' at Winchester

[HantsExile]

SWR have introduced a new improved (?) taxi service at Winchester station.

Previously there was the usual system of a taxi rank immediately at the station exit, you queued up, jumped in, said where you wanted to go and went. This is described as the 'hackney' system.

Now SWR have signed a contract with a local cab company, Wintax, who have taken over the rank previously occupied by the hackney cabs. But the Wintax cabs do not have hackney licences so they have to be pre-booked!

Wintax have installed a screen and freephone in the booking hall and you use these (or your smartphone) to book your cab - which is sitting a few yards away. Obviously a bit of a delay involved there plus first-time / occasional users of the station (of whom there are many - tourist city!) are unaware, go straight out to the taxi rank and are sent away to do their booking.

The hackney cabs are still there but relegated to a new rank across the road - but with no signage, they look like an overflow from the main rank and people do not realise that they offer a walk-up service.

OK it's a new system so some initial confusion expected but it does seem rather perverse ..

A further problem emerged last night. I arrived at Winchester around 10.45pm off a very crowded train so lots of people looking for taxis. The ticket office was closed so no access to screen or freephone. There was one Wintax cab on their rank, but the driver was (quite rightly) refusing to take anyone until they had booked - via smartphone only. (I expect most potential customers had these, but it's a delay when all you want to do is get home!) There was one cab on the hackney rank, claimed by the fastest running customer.

Fortunately I live within walking distance of the station, but spent a few minutes explaining the new system to puzzled customers. When I looked back at the station, no further taxis had arrived on either rank and plenty of people still milling around, at getting along for 11pm.

Here's a link to the Hampshire Chronicle report:

Pre-booked taxis take over railway station spots following controversial SWR deal

WINCHESTER’S largest taxi company has taken over the top spots by the train station, with hackney carriages being forced to wait on the other side…

www.hampshirechronicle.co.uk

Hopefully it's teething troubles only.

Has anyone else experienced this system at stations? Any thoughts?

 

[setdown]

Eh, I find Uber quite reliable in Winchester, it's a lot easier than dealing with local-area companies. I always found the Hackney cabs to be quite expensive for what they were, so was grateful when Uber started serving that area.

 

[InOban]

This system has also been introduced at Edinburgh Airport. Went out to tender and, not surprisingly, a single large company outbid the individual drivers. No comment.

 

[duncanp]

So South Western Railway trouser a bit a cash as a result of this deal, and sod the customer, who is inconvenienced as a result.

 

[HantsExile]

Eh, I find Uber quite reliable in Winchester, it's a lot easier than dealing with local-area companies. I always found the Hackney cabs to be quite expensive for what they were, so was grateful when Uber started serving that area.

I've never got 'into' Uber, as mentioned I rarely use the station cabs as I live 5 mins walk from the station, but I certainly saw a lot of people inconvenienced last night.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I've never got 'into' Uber, as mentioned I rarely use the station cabs as I live 5 mins walk from the station, but I certainly saw a lot of people inconvenienced last night.

None of the industry is particularly good, but Uber and Bolt are generally better than the small
firms in my experience (it is not a trade of particularly good repute generally). Plus you can use them in most towns.

 

[Taunton]

Sounds better than what EMR arranged at East Midlands Parkway, with no courtesy phone or screen, no public phone, just a notice up with a phone number to the cab company dispatcher, which is several miles away, and only one company allowed. I wrote about this a while ago:

East Midlands Parkway....A failed station?

I'm sure most of us all know that EM Pkwy is a station which opened in 2009 in Ratcliff-on-Soar, right outside the power station serving the Airport. However the usage is tiny - under 300,000 far less than the 750,000 predicted. Now for a four platform, InterCity station with 3tph South and 4tph...

www.railforums.co.uk

I do believe the cab company has to kick back a proportion of their fares, either by the ride or a flat fare, to the railway.

 

[HantsExile]

Sounds better than what EMR arranged at East Midlands Parkway, with no courtesy phone or screen, no public phone, just a notice up with a phone number to the cab company dispatcher, which is several miles away, and only one company allowed. I wrote about this a while ago:

East Midlands Parkway....A failed station?

I'm sure most of us all know that EM Pkwy is a station which opened in 2009 in Ratcliff-on-Soar, right outside the power station serving the Airport. However the usage is tiny - under 300,000 far less than the 750,000 predicted. Now for a four platform, InterCity station with 3tph South and 4tph...

www.railforums.co.uk

I do believe the cab company has to kick back a proportion of their fares, either by the ride or a flat fare, to the railway.

That's interesting, I missed that when you posted it. Yes, what we have at Winchester is better than what you describe in terms of a screen / phone / QR code. But it sounds as if the two stations are very different. Winchester has substantial commuter footfall morning and evening (OK, they'll quickly learn the system) but also significant visitor / tourist traffic who may well be confused by the set-up. I agree with another poster that it is an inconvenience to customers, adding another stage (book a cab) to their journey. And the lack of cabs last night (unusual in my experience) is an additional concern.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

If the hackneys have been pushed on to the public highway, I imagine that (a) the Hackney Drivers Association will ask for and (b) the highway authority (Hants CC?) may well grant the marking of a hackney rank - which will have at least some signing, which may encourage people to queue in the right place for hackneys. So if it's not that far from the station, the minicab firm may find that they've shelled out to SWR for not much benefit.

 

[HantsExile]

If the hackneys have been pushed on to the public highway, I imagine that (a) the Hackney Drivers Association will ask for and (b) the highway authority (Hants CC?) may well grant the marking of a hackney rank - which will have at least some signing, which may encourage people to queue in the right place for hackneys. So if it's not that far from the station, the minicab firm may find that they've shelled out to SWR for not much benefit.

Another interesting point. The area from which the hackneys have been 'evicted' is railway-owned, but I assume their new area is public highway. At the moment the only signage related to the new hackney carriage area is a yellow plate on a lamppost (saying something like no parking except for taxis) which can't be seen from the station exit side of the road. There is plenty of signage (some badly spelt!) for the new pre-book cabs but currently no signage directing people to the hackneys - and as I said in my original post, the layout makes the hackney area look like just a feeder for the pre-book rank. A neighbour is coming from London tonight by a late train, so will be interesting to hear from them if there are more cabs of either breed than I saw last night.

 

[setdown]

So something that has got me angry about this. The wheelchair accessible Hackney’s are no longer able to park outside the station. They have to be over the road, and there’s no official pedestrian crossing. How does a wheelchair user get across to the taxis now?

It can probably be done at a great struggle, but when you have a step-dad in a wheelchair and see how much they have to struggle with every day, it’s not right.

There are ways around it, but in 2023 we should be removing barriers, not creating them. Shame on SWR.

 

[Bletchleyite]

So something that has got me angry about this. The wheelchair accessible Hackney’s are no longer able to park outside the station. They have to be over the road, and there’s no official pedestrian crossing. How does a wheelchair user get across to the taxis now?

It can probably be done at a great struggle, but when you have a step-dad in a wheelchair and see how much they have to struggle with every day, it’s not right.

There are ways around it, but in 2023 we should be removing barriers, not creating them. Shame on SWR.

Would they not instead request an accessible vehicle when booking their private hire, or does that company not offer that?

 

[duncanp]

So something that has got me angry about this. The wheelchair accessible Hackney’s are no longer able to park outside the station. They have to be over the road, and there’s no official pedestrian crossing. How does a wheelchair user get across to the taxis now?

It can probably be done at a great struggle, but when you have a step-dad in a wheelchair and see how much they have to struggle with every day, it’s not right.

There are ways around it, but in 2023 we should be removing barriers, not creating them. Shame on SWR.

I would have thought that this constitutes grounds for legal action under the Equalities Act.

People who provide services are legally obliged to consider the effect of any changes on disabled people, and to ensure that disabled people are not put at a disadvantage as a result of these changes.

Would they not instead request an accessible vehicle when booking their private hire, or does that company not offer that?

If the company does not offer an accessible vehicle, then disabled people are definitely put at a disadvantage as a result of these changes. The road outside Winchester Station is called Station Hill, and if memory serves me right it is quite a steep downwards slope to the mini roundabout at the bottom.

I suspect the deal between Wintax and South Western Railway was agreed in an office many miles away from Winchester, by people who have no knowledge of the local area, and couldn't care less about any adverse consequences for the people affected.

 

[setdown]

Would they not instead request an accessible vehicle when booking their private hire, or does that company not offer that?

I get what you mean, but instead of easily going to an accessible Hackney cab that’s waiting in a line (of which most of the time there will be one), they now have to ring up and wait for an adapted one to be sent out. It shouldn’t be underestimated how much even a small task to you and I quickly becomes a larger one to the more vulnerable.

Being able to do things without booking ahead or assistance has such a profound positive impact to disabled. Look at the buses in London. The bus driver doesn’t have to make a show to everyone of getting off, unlocking a ramp, deploying it, waiting outside for someone to wheel on, and then do the same in reverse. They press a button, an automatic ramp deploys and a wheelchair can get on quickly and without assistance. That’s massive. (I suspect you already appreciate this, so it’s not aimed at you specifically, just a healthy reminder to everyone)

Something has been made much difficult, driven by pure profit. It’s not right.

 

[DelW]

If the minicabs don't have hackney licences, are their fares regulated in any way? If not, they'll potentially be charging excessive prices to arrivals who don't know the city's geography and don't realise that other options are available.

No doubt SWR will be making themselves some extra money from this backroom deal. That will be much more important to their management than the inconvenience to their passengers, consideration for whom rarely troubles SWR.

 

[BrianB]

Same thing at Torquay. Arrived there last Saturday afternoon, went to front of station for a taxi, none on 'rank'. The word Taxi still clearly painted on road surface but covered over on overhead sign. Assumed because a trainload had just arrived that they had all gone off, so with others, waited and waited for one to turn up but nothing. After 15 minutes asked sole visible staff member what was the situation and he told us that you must phone for one. Pointed out a big number painted on a shed wall across the way. So after much pressing of 1, then 2, then voice automated response, 25 minutes later am finally in a car after what should have been the simplest of operations, get off train, get in a taxi. Driver says its because British Rail (hmmm) want £500 pa for the right to pick up. This is one of the UK's major resorts with a high percentage of elderly visitors so this is customer service at its lowest level, provide no service, offer no visible info re lack of the service, and expect the customer to work it out for themselves.

 

[HantsExile]

Very much agree with the comments regarding implications for people with mobility issues of the changes at Winchester. I expect Wintax have accessible vehicles but, has been said, the new system puts an additional stage (booking) into the process. My impression is that the majority of the hackney cabs - now across the road - are vehicles with wheelchair access, and used to be available on exit from the station, either immediately or after a short wait in a queue, no need to book. As another poster said, there is no zebra or light-controlled crossing directly to the new hackney cab rank, and the road is busy with buses, cars and taxis. As Duncamp says, the nearest crossing is down quite a steep hill, across, and back up the steep hill - not easy.

And the point about fare regulation of non-hackney cabs is well made too.

Not wanting to introduce a political slant - but the current Winchester MP (Conservative, small majority) is not standing at the next General Election, and the Lib Dems are hopeful of winning (back) the seat. I may see if I can interest them in a campaign against the changes at the station, including grounds under the Equalities Act.

 

[wibble]

I would have thought that this constitutes grounds for legal action under the Equalities Act.

People who provide services are legally obliged to consider the effect of any changes on disabled people, and to ensure that disabled people are not put at a disadvantage as a result of these changes.



If the company does not offer an accessible vehicle, then disabled people are definitely put at a disadvantage as a result of these changes. The road outside Winchester Station is called Station Hill, and if memory serves me right it is quite a steep downwards slope to the mini roundabout at the bottom.

I suspect the deal between Wintax and South Western Railway was agreed in an office many miles away from Winchester, by people who have no knowledge of the local area, and couldn't care less about any adverse consequences for the people affected.

But would they have grounds? Wintax would already be required to provide wheelchair accessible taxis so unless there's no provision, there's no claim on that basis.

I haven't been to Winchester for years, but looking at Google Streetview, a crossing with dropped kerbs is provided towards the mini roundabout (near the bus stops); at the southern end of the station building, there's also a dropped kerb more or less opposite a dropped kerb entry to a small car park.

 

[Taunton]

Are any arrangements between TOC and taxi company within the regulated services that the DfT oversees, and is currently a major party in, or are they outside that (as I believe station car parking charges are), and thus form a revenue stream directly to the TOC to arrange and do as they wish with?

 

[HantsExile]

But would they have grounds? Wintax would already be required to provide wheelchair accessible taxis so unless there's no provision, there's no claim on that basis.

I haven't been to Winchester for years, but looking at Google Streetview, a crossing with dropped kerbs is provided towards the mini roundabout (near the bus stops); at the southern end of the station building, there's also a dropped kerb more or less opposite a dropped kerb entry to a small car park.

Yes you're right - I'd forgotten about the dropped kerb crossing, which is a little way down from the station building but not as far as the light-controlled crossing. Do-able but still involves a section of quite steep pavement down & up. Arguably a bit of an ask for people with mobility issues / wheelchair users who don't want / aren't able to use the booking option.

 

[HantsExile]

I've asked for this thread to be re-opened for an update from Winchester. The pre-booked taxis system is being cancelled and the former 'hackney' taxi company are returning to the front of the station. This has been reported in the local Hampshire Chronicle, I've struggled to provide a link but below is a "copy and paste" of the recent article on the Chronicle website. It's interesting that the article quotes SWR as saying that the decision follows "feedback from our customers and colleagues".

"FOLLOWING eight months of disputes, hackney carriage drivers will be reclaiming the taxi rank outside Winchester Railway Station.

Wintax’s four-year tender to use the bays directly outside the station is being abolished, starting from next month, after the pre-booked taxi company agreed to a new deal with South Western Railway which will see the hackney drivers take back the rank.
Tensions were sparked in the summer after Wintax secured the rank for its pre-booked only vehicles, forcing the hackney cabs, which can be hailed in the street, to the other side of the road and confusing customers.

The Chronicle reported widespread unhappiness especially from the elderly and disabled over the confusion and the crossing of the carriageway outside the downside platform.

A management spokesperson from Wintax said: “Due to pressure from the hackney drivers South Western Railway has ended our contract after this month.

“We could have appealed the decision but we have obliged. We’re not fighting it. We’re not going to cause a fuss as we’re so busy and customers can still call us.

“It’s disheartening but we’re still the largest taxi company and this is not necessarily going to harm us. If they are willing to put up this much of a fight we thought we should let them have it. They rely on picking up from the station and do not have the same luxury as we do as a company.

“We don’t need the train station, we are a very good and well-known company. With all the grief we have had it’s just not worth it.

“Having the rank has been great – some customers have loved it and others haven’t but there have been more positives and [sic] negatives.

“It’s a shame and we’ve put a lot of hard work into it but we get it from both sides. Everybody has to make a living. We were offered the contract and we took it and believed it would improve safety for customers as we can track our taxis.

“South Western Railway has listed safety reasons with all our boards being up and a member of staff being there all the time.”
Wintax said the new deal was confirmed earlier this month. A spokesman for SWR said: "We can confirm that, following feedback from our customers and colleagues, Hackney vehicles will provide taxi services for our customers at Winchester station from Friday, March 1."

 

[setdown]

Excellent news. Having seen this set-up a few times, it did look a little clunky. It was good that there was a member of staff present, but you don't tend to see that at any other ranks, so it probably wasn't sustainable.

Fortunately, Uber availability continues to be strong. I wonder what the SWR Colleague feedback was?

 

[Brush 4]

Good news. Changing something simple and easy, to something complicated and inconvenient is never a good idea. Why did they think it might be? Watch out for other stations having this imposed though.