Taxi / Uber / Private Hire Discussion

[Bletchleyite]

Moderator note - split from:

Do you think that the UK switching to electric vehicles is realistic?

Given the significant obstacles involved with using electric cars and the massive change in infrastructure that would be required do you think it’s practical. I’m especially thinking of those that live in blocks of flats that have no choice but to park on the street or those who do long...

www.railforums.co.uk

But what that time did do was make the marginal cost for a second car very obvious. In the end I only ended up hiring three times. Generally I used taxis for short distance stuff where I needed a car and other options weren’t available. I anlso started walking to the station rather than driving, which saved me about £30 a week. Overall I reckon I saved well over a thousand quid in the year, plus the depreciation cost.

The problem with taxis (well, less so with London black cabs, but certainly with all other forms of taxi) is that they are utterly awful. I would do most possible things to avoid the use of a taxi outside London. They are, as a whole, incompetently driven often by nasty characters with poorly maintained cars, and customer service is by and large nonexistent, plus you're in effect compelled to have an awkward conversation with someone you don't know who very often can't understand properly what you're saying anyway due to their poor command of English*, or worse are gabbing away on their phone thus not paying full attention to the road. A massively disreputable trade in pretty much all its forms, certainly in urban settings (though I'm sure "Bob's taxi" in a small rural village is nice enough).

I would prefer to pay well over the odds to own a car in preference to having to regularly use taxis. Though I often use hire e-scooters and e-bikes instead of one when I've not been drinking. (Were there a genuinely secure cycle parking facility at MKC I might even get an e-bike myself and use that).

Were the trade of a proper regulated quality nationwide, as it is in London or in other European countries, I might have less of an issue with it.

* Please don't report this as a racist comment, it's not, I care not of their origin, but if their English is poor can they just put the radio on, shut up and drive? It is genuinely awkward trying to create small talk with someone who can't understand you and makes for an extremely stressful journey.

 

[Bald Rick]

The problem with taxis (well, less so with London black cabs, but certainly with all other forms of taxi) is that they are utterly awful. I would do most possible things to avoid the use of a taxi outside London. They are, as a whole, incompetently driven often by nasty characters with poorly maintained cars, and customer service is by and large nonexistent, plus you're in effect compelled to have an awkward conversation with someone you don't know who very often can't understand properly what you're saying anyway due to their poor command of English*, or worse are gabbing away on their phone thus not paying full attention to the road. A massively disreputable trade in pretty much all its forms, certainly in urban settings (though I'm sure "Bob's taxi" in a small rural village is nice enough).

Not my experience, in general, with regular taxi trips all over the country. I have had a few examples like this, perhaps 10-20% - but by far the minority. I have never caught a taxi in MK though.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I have never caught a taxi in MK though.

I would strongly recommend not doing so. They are about as "good" as the bus service.

If you do find the need to do so, Bolt is the least worst, but that's not saying much. The black cabs are disreputable and like not using the meter so they can charge you more.

But even if just 10-20% of trips were like that, I'd still choose to own a car, even if expensive. 0% of trips should be like that - there should be stricter vehicle inspections and stricter driver vetting. The regulation of the trade is simply woeful.

I'd be even less happy were I a lone female and not a massive bloke who doesn't consider many people a physical threat. I have heard of multiple cases of inappropriate behaviour towards women in MK private hire vehicles. Due to this, one side of me is inclined to think it should be a trade where an Enhanced DBS check is mandatory with a level of strictness on offences that you'd apply to a teacher or youth volunteer - being 1:1 with a potentially vulnerable person is quite a big thing. I would also like to see tachographs mandatory to prevent them working dangerous long hours (on delivery vans too) - I've had some hair raising early morning airport runs in the past when the driver has stayed up to do it as their last job of the day.

 

[cactustwirly]

I would strongly recommend not doing so. They are about as "good" as the bus service.

If you do find the need to do so, Bolt is the least worst, but that's not saying much. The black cabs are disreputable and like not using the meter so they can charge you more.

But even if just 10-20% of trips were like that, I'd still choose to own a car, even if expensive. 0% of trips should be like that - there should be stricter vehicle inspections and stricter driver vetting. The regulation of the trade is simply woeful.

I'd be even less happy were I a lone female and not a massive bloke who doesn't consider many people a physical threat. I have heard of multiple cases of inappropriate behaviour towards women in MK private hire vehicles. Due to this, one side of me is inclined to think it should be a trade where an Enhanced DBS check is mandatory with a level of strictness on offences that you'd apply to a teacher or youth volunteer - being 1:1 with a potentially vulnerable person is quite a big thing. I would also like to see tachographs mandatory to prevent them working dangerous long hours (on delivery vans too) - I've had some hair raising early morning airport runs in the past when the driver has stayed up to do it as their last job of the day.

Local councils can't do much as the drivers will just register their cabs under a different council, like Wolverhampton or Fareham.
I think I read that maybe Middlesborough? has almost all of it's minicabs under the city of Wolverhampton council, as it's cheaper and there are less checks.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Local councils can't do much as the drivers will just register their cabs under a different council, like Wolverhampton or Fareham.
I think I read that maybe Middlesborough? has almost all of it's minicabs under the city of Wolverhampton council, as it's cheaper and there are less checks.

Yes, I'm aware of this happening, one large operator locally registered theirs with Aylesbury Vale* rather than MK for that sort of reason. It'd have to be a national change in the law.

* There's something about Aylesbury and disreputable transport operators - buses too. I'm not totally sure why, I guess Bucks County Council just has no teeth.

 

[cactustwirly]

The problem with taxis (well, less so with London black cabs, but certainly with all other forms of taxi) is that they are utterly awful. I would do most possible things to avoid the use of a taxi outside London. They are, as a whole, incompetently driven often by nasty characters with poorly maintained cars, and customer service is by and large nonexistent, plus you're in effect compelled to have an awkward conversation with someone you don't know who very often can't understand properly what you're saying anyway due to their poor command of English*, or worse are gabbing away on their phone thus not paying full attention to the road. A massively disreputable trade in pretty much all its forms, certainly in urban settings (though I'm sure "Bob's taxi" in a small rural village is nice enough).

I would prefer to pay well over the odds to own a car in preference to having to regularly use taxis. Though I often use hire e-scooters and e-bikes instead of one when I've not been drinking. (Were there a genuinely secure cycle parking facility at MKC I might even get an e-bike myself and use that).

Were the trade of a proper regulated quality nationwide, as it is in London or in other European countries, I might have less of an issue with it.

* Please don't report this as a racist comment, it's not, I care not of their origin, but if their English is poor can they just put the radio on, shut up and drive? It is genuinely awkward trying to create small talk with someone who can't understand you and makes for an extremely stressful journey.

The cars on paper should be better maintained than private cars, as they need to be MOTed every 6 months

 

[Bletchleyite]

The cars on paper should be better maintained than private cars, as they need to be MOTed every 6 months

Of course there are plenty of people who will issue an MoT to their mates on a vehicle that's slightly less than legal. But it's not just about legality, it's about the poor condition of the passenger accommodation, stinking of fag ash etc.

 

[cactustwirly]

Of course there are plenty of people who will issue an MoT to their mates on a vehicle that's slightly less than legal. But it's not just about legality, it's about the poor condition of the passenger accommodation, stinking of fag ash etc.

The taxis in Reading are mostly all black cabs, all eclectic mixes of hand me downs from Birmingham and London in various states of repair, some do look really clapped out, rusty and have different coloured body panels.
You get a handful of new EV ones but mostly old TX4s

They're not cheap, a 2 mile journey is £15 which is ridiculous.

 

[Roast Veg]

The problem with taxis (well, less so with London black cabs, but certainly with all other forms of taxi) is that they are utterly awful. I would do most possible things to avoid the use of a taxi outside London. They are, as a whole, incompetently driven often by nasty characters with poorly maintained cars, and customer service is by and large nonexistent, plus you're in effect compelled to have an awkward conversation with someone you don't know who very often can't understand properly what you're saying anyway due to their poor command of English*, or worse are gabbing away on their phone thus not paying full attention to the road. A massively disreputable trade in pretty much all its forms, certainly in urban settings (though I'm sure "Bob's taxi" in a small rural village is nice enough).

This is not my experience with taxis in West Yorkshire. I have found them all to be quiet and attentive, except at 5am when they're curious why I want to catch the first train of the day!

 

[Bantamzen]

This is not my experience with taxis in West Yorkshire. I have found them all to be quiet and attentive, except at 5am when they're curious why I want to catch the first train of the day!

Most of the local companies and drivers are decent enough in my area, although many companies are being hoovered up by bigger ones like SJK or Arrow. But this isn't necessarily a bad thing, it means a bigger pool of drivers when they are busy, plus using the same booking system means you can see if drivers are around through their respective apps.

 

[stuu]

The problem with taxis (well, less so with London black cabs, but certainly with all other forms of taxi) is that they are utterly awful. I would do most possible things to avoid the use of a taxi outside London. They are, as a whole, incompetently driven often by nasty characters with poorly maintained cars, and customer service is by and large nonexistent, plus you're in effect compelled to have an awkward conversation with someone you don't know who very often can't understand properly what you're saying anyway due to their poor command of English*, or worse are gabbing away on their phone thus not paying full attention to the road. A massively disreputable trade in pretty much all its forms, certainly in urban settings (though I'm sure "Bob's taxi" in a small rural village is nice enough).

I would prefer to pay well over the odds to own a car in preference to having to regularly use taxis. Though I often use hire e-scooters and e-bikes instead of one when I've not been drinking. (Were there a genuinely secure cycle parking facility at MKC I might even get an e-bike myself and use that).

Were the trade of a proper regulated quality nationwide, as it is in London or in other European countries, I might have less of an issue with it.

* Please don't report this as a racist comment, it's not, I care not of their origin, but if their English is poor can they just put the radio on, shut up and drive? It is genuinely awkward trying to create small talk with someone who can't understand you and makes for an extremely stressful journey.

You do make some unbelievably sweeping statements, without the caveat that it is your experience, and not a fact.

I have never had this experience locally, or in general when I have needed to use a taxi anywhere else on the country. Definitely not the case when I lived in St Albans either (do they still insist on white cars with a yellow stripe?)

 

[johncrossley]

Taxis might vary depending on the local economy. Milton Keynes and Reading have strong economies, so many people will be doing taxi driving for a short time between jobs or if they are otherwise unemployable. In less affluent areas there may be more career taxi drivers which should mean better (or at least not as bad) standards.

 

[trebor79]

I'd be even less happy were I a lone female and not a massive bloke who doesn't consider many people a physical threat. I have heard of multiple cases of inappropriate behaviour towards women in MK private hire vehicles. Due to this, one side of me is inclined to think it should be a trade where an Enhanced DBS check is mandatory with a level of strictness on offences that you'd apply to a teacher or youth volunteer - being 1:1 with a potentially vulnerable person is quite a big thing.

Kind of agree, I'm not sure that's an appropriate level of strictness but certainly the systems could be designed to keep users data safe. So for example it is not beyond the wit of man to design a taxi driver app whereby the driver can call or text the passenger to say "I'm here to pick you up" without actually getting their number.
I met a colleague in London a few weeks ago who'd just got out of such a vehicle. The driver had been attempting to chat her up on the journey and as she got out said "It's Naomi right? I'll give you a call sometime, I've got your number here". He'd picked her up from home too so she was a little unsettled by it.

 

[johncrossley]

So for example it is not beyond the wit of man to design a taxi driver app whereby the driver can call or text the passenger to say "I'm here to pick you up" without actually getting their number.

Can drivers see the passenger's number on the Uber app (for example)?

 

[Lucan]

You do make some unbelievably sweeping statements, without the caveat that it is your experience, and not a fact.

My experience too, for what it's worth.

 

[jon0844]

Can drivers see the passenger's number on the Uber app (for example)?

I'd hope not. I think if you look at how the likes of Just-Eat does things, they call a number that redirects to you - so they never get your number but they CAN contact you to say they've arrived, ask where you are, ask how to get to you etc.

 

[trebor79]

Can drivers see the passenger's number on the Uber app (for example)?

I don't know. I'm not sure if it was an Uber or some other private hire.

 

[Bald Rick]

Definitely not the case when I lived in St Albans either (do they still insist on white cars with a yellow stripe?)

If ‘plying for hire’ yes, or black.

But minicabs can be anything, obviously.

 

[RailWonderer]

The problem with taxis (well, less so with London black cabs, but certainly with all other forms of taxi) is that they are utterly awful. I would do most possible things to avoid the use of a taxi outside London. They are, as a whole, incompetently driven often by nasty characters with poorly maintained cars, and customer service is by and large nonexistent, plus you're in effect compelled to have an awkward conversation with someone you don't know who very often can't understand properly what you're saying anyway due to their poor command of English*, or worse are gabbing away on their phone thus not paying full attention to the road. A massively disreputable trade in pretty much all its forms, certainly in urban settings (though I'm sure "Bob's taxi" in a small rural village is nice enough).

I would prefer to pay well over the odds to own a car in preference to having to regularly use taxis. Though I often use hire e-scooters and e-bikes instead of one when I've not been drinking. (Were there a genuinely secure cycle parking facility at MKC I might even get an e-bike myself and use that).

Were the trade of a proper regulated quality nationwide, as it is in London or in other European countries, I might have less of an issue with it.

* Please don't report this as a racist comment, it's not, I care not of their origin, but if their English is poor can they just put the radio on, shut up and drive? It is genuinely awkward trying to create small talk with someone who can't understand you and makes for an extremely stressful journey.

Totally not my experience. Most of them are friendly and happy to talk and I've had good banter with a couple of them. I sit in the front for better legroom and it makes it less awkward. I tend to ask them things like the longest journey they took and they're happy to tell you stories etc. and the coversation moves into things like house prices etc and doesn't have to be awkward. I think the art of good coversation is a bit lost these days.

If you ask for a flat fare when you call them up you won't get robbed, especially when you dial a few local numbers (though normally most are fully booked on the school run and mornings and evenings for airport runs). Maybe you can't understand them when you've been drinking?

And who are you to have such high standards? The reality is not all cabs will be immaculately maintained with drivers having a perfect command of the English language. Taxi drivers are some of the most careful drivers on the road, it's the morning/night drink drivers who are swerving and speeding that are, and cabbies know how to handle themselves when on the road with them. And how do you know their cars are poory maintained, do you do their MOTs, are you a servicing technician?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Totally not my experience. Most of them are friendly and happy to talk and I've had good banter with a couple of them. I sit in the front for better legroom and it makes it less awkward. I tend to ask them things like the longest journey they took and they're happy to tell you stories etc. and the coversation moves into things like house prices etc and doesn't have to be awkward. I think the art of good coversation is a bit lost these days.

I don't want a conversation with a random stranger in a captive environment and should have the right not to have one and not to be talked down for not wishing one.

If you ask for a flat fare when you call them up you won't get robbed

One should not have to take ANY action not to be robbed. This says it all. If I stumble into Tesco 10 pints down for a sandwich I would be charged the correct price for it, and so it should be for a taxi.

especially when you dial a few local numbers (though normally most are fully booked on the school run and mornings and evenings for airport runs). Maybe you can't understand them when you've been drinking?

Irrelevant.

And who are you to have such high standards?

A customer. All businesses should offer quality standards without exception. I've said it of Travelodge, to use another example - I'm happy with basic (small room, whitewashed walls, small TV or none at all, no aircon, basic foam mattress, white tiled bathroom etc), I'm not happy with dirty and unhygienic.

So I'd be fine with my taxi being say a clean, well maintained Dacia Jogger (one of the cheapest large cars going) but not a filthy 20 year old Merc with damaged leather seats and squealing brakes, say.

Or I'll stay in a YHA but never a Britannia.

The reality is not all cabs will be immaculately maintained with drivers having a perfect command of the English language.

And that's why I'll do everything to avoid using one, and will continue to own a car despite it not making financial sense.

Taxi drivers are some of the most careful drivers on the road, it's the morning/night drink drivers who are swerving and speeding that are, and cabbies know how to handle themselves when on the road with them.

Utter nonsense. Drink driving is strongly deprecated, few people do it now in urban areas at least, and when I see bad driving in a town it's almost always a minicab or taxi.

And how do you know their cars are poory maintained, do you do their MOTs, are you a servicing technician?

Any driver knows when a car doesn't feel right. But also a dirty, worn passenger cabin is very visible.

 

[birchesgreen]

Taxi drivers are some of the most careful drivers on the road

Is this a wind-up?

 

[Trackman]

Local councils can't do much as the drivers will just register their cabs under a different council, like Wolverhampton or Fareham.
I think I read that maybe Middlesborough? has almost all of it's minicabs under the city of Wolverhampton council, as it's cheaper and there are less checks.

Am I correct in saying the driver's local council set the fare tariff though?

Can drivers see the passenger's number on the Uber app (for example)?

Yes. One rung me up at a railway station as I looked bemused as I couldn't see the car model/colour or reg number as it was throwing it down. Driver spotted me and gave me a call waving his hand out the window saying 'I'm over here!!!'.

 

[greyman42]

I remember pre-covid that there was a dispute between taxi drivers licensed to use York station portico and GNER which ran the station. GNER wanted the drivers to wear shirt and tie and trousers, as opposed to jeans. I think the compromise reached was any shirt with a collar such as a polo shirt.

 

[Farigiraf]

Panther taxis in Cambridge only made card acceptance compulsory until just before COVID (before then it was virtually non-existent unless you wanted an argument with the driver) but even nowadays drivers tend to behave very antisocially when you ask to pay with card (usually with large grunts) and make up excuses as to why the card reader is not working (often that there's no signal, even when you're right in the city centre...)

Nowadays I just cycle to places - word of warning though, avoid Cambridge station's cycle park, theft is common there (I just walk the 20 minutes now)

 

[GusB]

The problem with taxis (well, less so with London black cabs, but certainly with all other forms of taxi) is that they are utterly awful. I would do most possible things to avoid the use of a taxi outside London. They are, as a whole, incompetently driven often by nasty characters with poorly maintained cars, and customer service is by and large nonexistent, plus you're in effect compelled to have an awkward conversation with someone you don't know who very often can't understand properly what you're saying anyway due to their poor command of English*, or worse are gabbing away on their phone thus not paying full attention to the road. A massively disreputable trade in pretty much all its forms, certainly in urban settings (though I'm sure "Bob's taxi" in a small rural village is nice enough).

This is just your opinion and in no way does this represent the whole industry outside London.

Local councils can't do much as the drivers will just register their cabs under a different council, like Wolverhampton or Fareham.
I think I read that maybe Middlesborough? has almost all of it's minicabs under the city of Wolverhampton council, as it's cheaper and there are less checks.

I don't think it's correct that there are fewer checks. I had a look at Wolverhampton's requirements and they didn't seem to be any different from the requirements of other licensing authorities. See this post:

Taxi's registered in Wolverhampton.

I recently saw a taxi in York which was registered in Wolverhampton which was unusual. Someone told me that drivers from different parts of the country are registering their cars in Wolverhampton as it is cheap, quick and involves very few checks. Can anyone shed any light on this?

www.railforums.co.uk

If you do find the need to do so, Bolt is the least worst, but that's not saying much. The black cabs are disreputable and like not using the meter so they can charge you more.

You should be reporting this. The hackney cabs are required to display a tariff and should be sticking to it. If not, they're potentially in breach of their licence conditions.

Of course there are plenty of people who will issue an MoT to their mates on a vehicle that's slightly less than legal. But it's not just about legality, it's about the poor condition of the passenger accommodation, stinking of fag ash etc.

Yet again you're quick to assume that certain traders are operating illegally. Going back to the Wolverhampton example, MOTs are required to be carried out by a testing centre that's DVSA and council approved. I've had a look at Milton Keynes Council's site and the information isn't quite as easy to find (I suspect the details are somewhere in the online application process), but I wouldn't be surprised if there is a similar requirement.

Have you ever complained about your poor experiences? You seem to have been incredibly unlucky. However, I suspect what we actually have here is an awkward customer with impossibly high expectations.

 

[stuu]

Yes. One rung me up at a railway station as I looked bemused as I couldn't see the car model/colour or reg number as it was throwing it down. Driver spotted me and gave me a call waving his hand out the window saying 'I'm over here!!!'.

That doesn't mean they can see your actual phone number

 

[JD2168]

I have generally found Taxis in Sheffield quite decent to travel in, both black cabs & private hire. They are popular both at the Train Station & on a Friday/Saturday night in Sheffield as there is limited or no bus service at these times.

 

[WelshBluebird]

This is just your opinion and in no way does this represent the whole industry outside London.

It absolutely does represent my experiences in Bristol, Bath, Cardiff and Oxford. Multiple major cities. If that isn't representative of the whole industry then what on earth is.
Examples what I am talking about:

• Being forced to pay cash instead of card and being told "the card machine isn't working" despite it being literally part of the licensing that they cannot operate if their machine isn't working.
• Dangerous driving and speeding.
• Getting into horn beeping / shouting arguments with another vehicle.
• Me being physically assaulted because I shut the car door a little too hard by accident (and that driver continuing to be allowed to drive taxi's despite clearly not being fit to do so).
• Having short journeys refused as the drivers want the longer fares (especially prevalent in Cardiff).
• Having the meter turned off and being forced to pay a higher price than what the meter would have read.

Of course not all taxi drivers are like this. To give some nice opposite examples, I've had drivers stop the meter early and charge me less than what the ride should have cost and I've had drivers do absolutely everything they can for me to catch a train when I was running late (including going down awkward to drive through, but perfectly legal and safe, shortcuts) amongst others. But you can't ignore the bad apples too (and the fact the industry and licensing authorities continue to ignore the bad apples is what makes the whole industry stink).

 

[RailWonderer]

Is this a wind-up?

Let's just say they know what they're doing, they drive more miles than anyone else after HGV/Van drivers. I'd trust a taxi driver over joe blogg to not crash even if the driving style is haphazard.

A customer. All businesses should offer quality standards without exception. I've said it of Travelodge, to use another example - I'm happy with basic (small room, whitewashed walls, small TV or none at all, no aircon, basic foam mattress, white tiled bathroom etc), I'm not happy with dirty and unhygienic.

So I'd be fine with my taxi being say a clean, well maintained Dacia Jogger (one of the cheapest large cars going) but not a filthy 20 year old Merc with damaged leather seats and squealing brakes, say.

Or I'll stay in a YHA but never a Britannia.

You're probably right, the taxicab industry should be more regulated than it is to avoid a bad service like this, but would push fares up a lot more.

 

[Meerkat]

Yet again you're quick to assume that certain traders are operating illegally. Going back to the Wolverhampton example, MOTs are required to be carried out by a testing centre that's DVSA and council approved.

Many years ago I knew a dispatcher for a local cab company
They used each other’s licences (“we all look the same eh!” said with a big grin) and moved the tyres round between cars to get them through MOTs.
But never had a problem with our town’s drivers. The next towns could be a pain though, not wanting to drive to ours etc (dunno if there was a runner problem - they didnt give a reason).