Leyland Bus
Member
It was always really comical getting on the night buses (usually the 8) flashing my staff pass and getting on, leaving other inebriated passengers scratching their heads at why I hadn't paid and got away with it! 
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TfGM Bus franchising
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The night services in Wigan and Bolton and to and from Manchester to the towns to the North were on Friday and Saturday nights only and operated by First Manchester when they had depots at Bolton, Wigan and Bury so thats how long ago it was.
Whether proper night buses on a Greater Manchester wide basis will be introduced again remains to be seen.
Whether proper night buses on a Greater Manchester wide basis will be introduced again remains to be seen.
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
As part of the 3rd and final tranche of Bee Network services, are there any plans to reinstate a bus service that will connect Mellor to New Mills?
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GusB
Established Member
Please bear in mind that this thread is for the discussion of Bee Network services as they currently exist, or are planned under future franchising plans.
Anyone who wishes to discuss historic routes is welcome to do so, but we'd ask that this is done in a separate thread. Thanks
Anyone who wishes to discuss historic routes is welcome to do so, but we'd ask that this is done in a separate thread. Thanks
I doubt it at the inception 5 Jan 2025.
The routes listed as changing in Tranche 3 are those operating about December 2020? when the tender contracts were drawn up - with potentially only minor adjustments for early and late journeys.
Any changes might come in the future but this is cross border and mainly outside TfGM area
The full list of routes put out to tender is at https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/tfgm-bus-franchising.184871/page-83#post-6451614
Those routes listed in the contract put out to tender for area C from 5 January 2025 is:
Bear in mind the contract documents went out using the network as it was in (December 2020?)
Hence in Area C it includes all the "Little Gem" network numbers which have largely changed / been withdrawn.
AREA C January 2025 Yet to be awarded
Hyde Road Large 15 38 42 42A 42B 42C 74 76 142 147 201 202 203 205 250 253 256 374
Sharston Large 43 50 85 86 101 102 111 143
Stockport Large 11 23 25 191 192 197 314 322 323 325 327 328 330 358 374 378 384
Tameside Large 7 216 217 219 221 230 231 237 336 346
Wythenshawe Large 18 19 150 245 247 263 281 282 284 286 287 313 368 370
Stockport Small 364 364 375
Tameside A Small 335 339 341 342 345 387 396
Tameside B Small 343 356
Trafford Small 44 84 254 260 261 262 280 288
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Curiously it looks like the 383 got missed off this list (presumably Stockport Large as it's the sister route to the 384.) The 360 is also missing although given that's one bus a day, that's not the biggest omission
At the time the 358 was a commercial service from Stagecoach - now it gets some subsidy from both TfGM and Derbyshire CC. As it runs out of Stockport depot, it will presumably remain in Bee Network Area C, but it's notable that the 394 (another jointly funded bus - currently run by High Peak) isn't on the list.
Does anyone have a list of how Area A was allocated into all the large and small buckets? Only the still to come Areas B and C are in the post linked to above
You’d think this info should be publicly available in the depths of the TfGM website, but there is remarkably little available.
You’d think this info should be publicly available in the depths of the TfGM website, but there is remarkably little available.
WatcherZero
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Wigan Large primarily Wigan depot existing services and Arriva 362 and Diamond 635 transferred in operated from Wigan depot, two small tendered franchises covering midi bus Wigan circulars were folded into the Large Wigan franchise at contract award.
Bolton Large primarily Bolton depot existing services with Vantage, Arriva 575 and some school services transferred in operated from Bolton depot.
(between them over 300 buses across 55 routes)
The remaining 7 smaller franchises which Diamond has chosen to operate from the Eccles depot consist of 42 routes and requiring 60 buses.
Salford: 29, 65, 66, 70, 74, 75, 79
Wigan East: 126, 132, 634, 990
Farnworth-Blackrod: 129, 521
Bolton North: 507, 525, 526, 527, 533, 535, 537, 541, 544, 907, 925
Bury-Farnworth: 511, 512, 513, 557, 916
Leigh-Atherton: 516, 583, 584, 588, 590, 594, 596, 597, 984
Bolton South: 559, 573, 574, 915
And until 2025 Diamond will also operate the non-franchised tendered services X50, 150, 254, 370, 371 from the depot.
Bolton Large primarily Bolton depot existing services with Vantage, Arriva 575 and some school services transferred in operated from Bolton depot.
(between them over 300 buses across 55 routes)
The remaining 7 smaller franchises which Diamond has chosen to operate from the Eccles depot consist of 42 routes and requiring 60 buses.
Salford: 29, 65, 66, 70, 74, 75, 79
Wigan East: 126, 132, 634, 990
Farnworth-Blackrod: 129, 521
Bolton North: 507, 525, 526, 527, 533, 535, 537, 541, 544, 907, 925
Bury-Farnworth: 511, 512, 513, 557, 916
Leigh-Atherton: 516, 583, 584, 588, 590, 594, 596, 597, 984
Bolton South: 559, 573, 574, 915
And until 2025 Diamond will also operate the non-franchised tendered services X50, 150, 254, 370, 371 from the depot.
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Current list of Bee Network routes etc at Bustimes
- Bee Network - Diamond Bus North West (based at Eccles and Bolton exANW depot)
- Bee Network - Go North West (based at Bolton Weston St and Wigan)
- Bee Network - Stagecoach Manchester (schools)
- Bee Network - Vision Bus (schools)
Dallamlad
Established Member
TFGM have bought an industrial estate in central Manchester. Guessing it could be a new electric bus depot?
www.placenorthwest.co.uk
TfGM fights off resi developers for prominent Manchester site - Place North West
Transport for Greater Manchester has acquired Downing Street Industrial Estate in Ardwick for around £15m, according to market sources.
www.placenorthwest.co.uk
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jonesy3001
On Moderation
Take it they're withdrawing tameside route 347 ashton to haughton green via denton?
TFGM have bought an industrial estate in central Manchester. Guessing it could be a new electric bus depot?
TfGM fights off resi developers for prominent Manchester site - Place North West
Transport for Greater Manchester has acquired Downing Street Industrial Estate in Ardwick for around £15m, according to market sources.
This seems to suggest some sort of addition to Hyde Road depot, if it is to be used as a bus depot, as the land is in the same area as Hyde Road depot.
The obvious thing if it is bus related would be a replacement for Hyde Road. It seems an incredibly expensive site for a bus depot though, if they just want to replace Hyde Road there are loads of industrial sites where people don't want to build 46 storey towers. I kind of think there has to be some other plan to justify spending so much money
For context this is £15m for apparently 3.5 acres (is that big enough to replace Hyde Road anyway, it looks slightly smaller on Google maps?), an MEN report on the potential purchase of land for a new depot in North Manchester mentions that costing £10m for 13 acres.
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WatcherZero
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It's about 2/3rd the size of Hyde Road, but probably the last available industrial site close to the city centre as they are gobbled up by the rapid housing expansion. The only authorised land acquisition program I know of is for bus depots, though it could have been an emergency decision based on the opportunity arising from the land being on the market.
There could be a few other possible uses; it's next door to the Mayfield development and not a million miles from Piccadilly station so could be a bus terminus. Though it's a bit far for pedestrians it may be useful for terminating cross city bus services or interchanging longer distance bus services. The other possibility is it would be an ideal vertical shaft site for a railway tunnel beneath Piccadilly e.g. for the mooted Metrolink tunnel or for a new rapid transit Metro line.
There could be a few other possible uses; it's next door to the Mayfield development and not a million miles from Piccadilly station so could be a bus terminus. Though it's a bit far for pedestrians it may be useful for terminating cross city bus services or interchanging longer distance bus services. The other possibility is it would be an ideal vertical shaft site for a railway tunnel beneath Piccadilly e.g. for the mooted Metrolink tunnel or for a new rapid transit Metro line.
mannylad21
New Member
Odd, I don’t see the 151 there unless it’s being withdrawn
WatcherZero
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Was a Stotts Tendered service previously I think, not commercial.
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I have found the 151: Awarded to Diamond Oldham Small 151 159
However, 347 seems to be missing
mannylad21
New Member
Ah okay, thought the 151 would have been part of the Ashton franchising considering it runs from North Manchester General Hospital to Ashton and barely touches Oldham.
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MSO69
Member
Does anyone know what school services Go North West have taken over for the 2nd tranche in march and what depots they will be operated out of?
No idea which routes - but said to be running out of Heywood
Leedsbusman
Member
The schools franchises are packaged by schools. Award details were published a while back on https://bidstats.uk/tenders/2023/W47/811336083
The content is copied below:
First Manchester (Oldham)
Package A - St Monica's
Reference: 034844-2023-dn670932-1
Value: £662,167
2 Go North West (Newcastle upon Tyne)
Package B - Newman College
Reference: 034844-2023-dn670932-2
Value: £2,696,063
3 Go North West (Newcastle upon Tyne)
Package C - Blue Coat/Crompton House
Reference: 034844-2023-dn670932-3
Value: £2,213,913
4 First Manchester (Oldham)
Package D - Co-op Academy North
Reference: 034844-2023-dn670932-4
Value: £321,042
5 Go North West (Newcastle upon Tyne)
Package E - Tottington
Reference: 034844-2023-dn670932-5
Value: £2,263,965
6 First Manchester (Oldham)
Package F - St Cuthbert's/Saddleworth
Reference: 034844-2023-dn670932-6
Value: £646,314
7 First Manchester (Oldham)
Package G - Waterhead
Reference: 034844-2023-dn670932-7
Value: £661,596
8 First Manchester (Oldham)
Package H - Co-op Academy
Reference: 034844-2023-dn670932-8
Value: £202,552
9 First Manchester (Oldham)
Package I - St Matthew's
Reference: 034844-2023-dn670932-9
Value: £202,766
47550
Member
That’s quite a difference between the tender values for Go NW and First. Is that due to the respective school sizes or contract length ?
Leedsbusman
Member
That’s down to the number of services and vehicles in each lot. According to https://bidstats.uk/tenders/2023/W47/811336083 :
St Monica’s 2 PVR
Newman 7
Blue coat 5
Coop North 1
Tottington 6
St cuthberts/saddlworth 2
Water head 2
Coop 1
St Matthew’s 1
Class 466
Established Member
I know there was some discussion further back, looks like the 184 will transfer to Stagecoach https://bustimes.org/licences/PC0003681
According to the Bee Network Committee notes from December, First wanted to withdraw the 184. It's temporarily being subsidised by TfGM and West Yorkshire Combined Authority until March. The notes don't state whether there will be ongoing subsidy from West Yorkshire.
Guessing that also makes Huddersfield a strong contender for furthest outpost of the Bee Network?
pokemonsuper9
Established Member
Noticed a bus stop closed due to works, I hadn't seen the closed sign yet so thought I'd go back and get a picture
Bus Stop Closed sign said:
It’ll be interesting to see if it keeps the same route in West Yorkshire
When First transferred it from Oldham to Huddersfield operation last year (which at the time was thought be so it was kept outside of the Bee Network) they diverted it off the main road in two places to serve Hard End and Linthwaite replacing service 183 which was withdrawn.
As a result you would now have the Bee Network providing a local round the houses service in West Yorkshire
Yeah this is a strange move. The 184 currently interworks with the other 18x services from Huddersfield, and is timetabled as part of the local service at the Huddersfield end. Is there going to be a situation where 18x services run every 15 minutes on the shared section but one in every four buses doesn't accept the same tickets as the rest? Will TfGM care about maintaining the even frequency in Yorkshire? I wonder if First wanted out of the 184 was that the whole route or might they add another service to replace the Yorkshire section?
In other news of cross boundary services Arriva are withdrawing the 395 between Wigan and Skelmersdale. Doesn't have as much impact in GM (though this does highlight that services between Wigan and Orrell are still entirely non-franchised), but for Skelmersdale only having a bus every 30 minutes to Wigan is pretty rubbish.
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WatcherZero
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I think Arriva said some time back they were prioritising Wigan-Ormskirk but you also have the Liverpool bus franchising on the horizon where they want to make the Wigan-Southport route part of their franchised network despite it only operating in Merseyside for about 10% of its journey.
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
That service serves quite a sizable west Wigan part of Greater Manchester before it reaches the Upholland border and has dovetailed on the same route as the 375/385 services to give a good regular service pattern.
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