TfGM Bus franchising

[GusB]

I think when it comes to fleet updates, it's probably best to wait until there's confirmation from a reliable source, rather than relying on bus times.org. While there are some people who genuinely try to keep it as accurate as possible (a few are members of this forum) and I don't want to detract from their efforts in any way, there will always be someone who jumps the gun and tries to ensure that they get there first.

I'd suggest that the rule of thumb should be "pics, or it never happened!"

 

[317 forever]

I can see congestion being the issue why the original 22 Stockport-Bolton was withdrawn. It wasn't unheard of to have 2 22s running together sometimes, despite it being a 30min service and especially if something special had been happening at Trafford Centre. There are just too many pinch points on the route that could make the service unreliable at times.

It was one of my local routes, as is Stagecoach successor route 25. One Sunday ca 2015 I saw a First and a Stagecoach bus in Heaton Moor together heading for Stockport. I looked up the timetable and it was the First one that was late.

Talking of other operators on it, MCT ran some evening journeys for a while.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

It was one of my local routes, as is Stagecoach successor route 25. One Sunday ca 2015 I saw a First and a Stagecoach bus in Heaton Moor together heading for Stockport. I looked up the timetable and it was the First one that was late.

Talking of other operators on it, MCT ran some evening journeys for a while.

The 25 route offers a guided tour of many of the areas in Heaton Moor that many will be unaware of.

My favoured route is the 480 from Bolton to Bury that takes in the village of Affetside.

 

[ic31420]

Photos of MX21ATF doing the rounds on the socials in Bee Livery laying down a smokescreen on a 37 service

 

[Leyland Bus]

Photos of MX21ATF doing the rounds on the socials in Bee Livery laying down a smokescreen on a 37 service

Sources? It's not on the news?

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Photos of MX21ATF doing the rounds on the socials in Bee Livery laying down a smokescreen on a 37 service

What does that mean? Is it exhaust related because that sounds right but not sure on that.

 

[Leyland Bus]

What does that mean? Is it exhaust related because that sounds right but not sure on that.

Personally, the terminology doesn't scream "exhaust" to me but I'll reserve judgement until I see an official source...

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Personally, the terminology doesn't scream "exhaust" to me but I'll reserve judgement until I see an official source...

Exhaust is the only smoke related thing I can easily think of from a vehicle. (unless it's on fire I guess)

 

[WWH44L]

Photos of MX21ATF doing the rounds on the socials in Bee Livery laying down a smokescreen on a 37 service

Odd, seeing as it tracked on a 471 after doing 37s the morning

 

[GusB]

Photos of MX21ATF doing the rounds on the socials in Bee Livery laying down a smokescreen on a 37 service

It would be helpful if you could provide a link to one of these photos, as well as being slightly less cryptic!

 

[Urobach]

Think I've seen the/a relevant photo now on a Facebook group - it's the exhaust.

May need to join: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1607791126412543/permalink/1643470882844567/?sfnsn=scwspmo&ref=share

 

[ic31420]

Think I've seen the/a relevant photo now on a Facebook group - it's the exhaust.

May need to join: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1607791126412543/permalink/1643470882844567/?sfnsn=scwspmo&ref=share

sorry.

Yes that's the one, but not the post seems to be doing the rounds in those sort of Anti Burnham Anti CaZ groups.

 

[Goldfish62]

Think I've seen the/a relevant photo now on a Facebook group - it's the exhaust.

May need to join: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1607791126412543/permalink/1643470882844567/?sfnsn=scwspmo&ref=share

Clearly something not right there.

 

[heathrowrail]

This is going to be interesting though as if say Stagecoach order new vehicles for Manchester do they come with corporate interior so they can be used elsewhere, or will they come with TFGM interior spec (which would be my guess). My own opinion is this is Andy Burnhams vanity project, if he can waste this much money painting buses in yellow and ordering buses. Surely all of that money could have been spent supporting operators to keep fares low, integrate transport like TFC/GWR have done and keep vital bus services going?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I recently boarded one of Stagecoach Manchester's more recent buses and noticed the "grab poles"" and handrails were in a blue shade instead of the customary orange and there was a small board showing the time. Does anyone know the reason for that colour change?

 

[heathrowrail]

I recently boarded one of Stagecoach Manchester's more recent buses and noticed the "grab poles"" and handrails were in a blue shade instead of the customary orange and there was a small board showing the time. Does anyone know the reason for that colour change?

New Stagecoach interior from 2020

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I recently boarded one of Stagecoach Manchester's more recent buses and noticed the "grab poles"" and handrails were in a blue shade instead of the customary orange and there was a small board showing the time. Does anyone know the reason for that colour change?

Came with the new interior from early 2020 - think the Busways 69 plates were some of the first ones

 

[Simon75]

Will TFGM's logo be the bee , or will be used in addition to the current logo ?

 

[TheLunaPark]

Will TFGM's logo be the bee , or will be used in addition to the current logo ?

It seems like the Bee Network brand will be used for pretty much all customer facing services and TfGM will remain as a corporate brand in the background. Personally, I think it's a real shame. I've always liked the 'M' logo and I think the whole bee thing is twee and childish but that applies to most brands nowadays I suppose.

 

[johncrossley]

This is going to be interesting though as if say Stagecoach order new vehicles for Manchester do they come with corporate interior so they can be used elsewhere, or will they come with TFGM interior spec (which would be my guess). My own opinion is this is Andy Burnhams vanity project, if he can waste this much money painting buses in yellow and ordering buses. Surely all of that money could have been spent supporting operators to keep fares low, integrate transport like TFC/GWR have done and keep vital bus services going?

Of course, when a private company spends its own money on rebranding that is called good marketing.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Of course, when a private company spends its own money on rebranding that is called good marketing.

In the case of private company marketing, it would be more likely that a more professional attitude would be employed, rather than something of the politically-motivated hue of local government.

 

[johncrossley]

In the case of private company marketing, it would be more likely that a more professional attitude would be employed, rather than something of the politically-motivated hue of local government.

I presume TfGM use marketing consultancies. Of course, again, that can also be considered to be a profligate waste of public money, which wouldn't be the case when a private company does it, or even when TOCs do it after franchise handovers.

 

[Bletchleyite]

In the case of private company marketing, it would be more likely that a more professional attitude would be employed, rather than something of the politically-motivated hue of local government.

What's unprofessional about the bee?

It appears the TfGM logo is present above the bus's front doors, though, so doesn't go completely.

And don't forget that a private company commissioned and designed that awful new Stagecoach brand that I've never heard anything good about...

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Of course, when a private company spends its own money on rebranding that is called good marketing.

No, it's not, and this constant "Animal Farm" 2 legs good, 4 legs bad, black and white distinction about public vs private does no-one any good.

There have been plenty of statements criticising private businesses on rebrands, in many industries. In the bus industry, there has been a mass of criticism directed at Arriva for their relaunch (and their appalling website). Same goes for Stagecoach's rebranding. In fact, it can be highlighted that some businesses (e.g. Transdev, Go North East) have been roundly criticised for excessive branding.

That doesn't get away from the criticisms of Transport for Greater Manchester; personal preference but I'm not sold on the Bee Network image. Liverpool City got it better with their hydrogen vehicles, internally and externally to my mind https://www.liverpoolcityregion-ca....drogen-buses-coming-to-liverpool-city-region/. Realistically, I'd sooner that there was something like this being considered for Greater Manchester in order to make buses seem aspirational instead of it being a slightly dull yellow exterior and standard interior as if to show that they are the poor relation to Metrolink.

Still, nothing compares to the frankly amateurish route branding that TfL rolled out on selected routes; if a professional agency was engaged in this, I'd be amazed (photo credit: Gellico on flickr)

 

[johncrossley]

What's unprofessional about the bee?

It appears the TfGM logo is present above the bus's front doors, though, so doesn't go completely.

And don't forget that a private company commissioned and designed that awful new Stagecoach brand that I've never heard anything good about...

Of course, I was being a little sarcastic in my original post. Yes, there have been many rebrands in the private sector that have not gone to plan, not just in transport. But because a public sector organisation is involved here, some people think different rules apply.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I was in Bury bus station at the time that Rosso introduced their brightly-coloured route liveried buses and at that time, the general bus passenger opinion was that it brightened up the bus station.

 

[heathrowrail]

Of course, when a private company spends its own money on rebranding that is called good marketing.

hmm the Stagecoach 2020 rebrand would say otherwise.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Of course, I was being a little sarcastic in my original post. Yes, there have been many rebrands in the private sector that have not gone to plan, not just in transport. But because a public sector organisation is involved here, some people think different rules apply.

Perhaps a reflection on Transport for London's marketing prowess for the capital's buses.

 

[TheLunaPark]

This is my take: https://membranedesign.co.uk/transportforgreatermanchester

I think the ‘M’ logo is a very strong asset that is now going to waste. As a Wigan-er, the bee has no relevance to me or anyone I know that I’ve asked whatsoever outside of the actual city of Manchester so I’m not even sure why they’ve decided to start plastering it everywhere.

 

[Djb1]

Not directly to do with franchising per-se, but Traffords 2023 school routes have thrown up some interesting operators. Unsure if these are as a result of the Little Gem fallout, or operators from the North West of the conurbation taking on work after losing school work in the first franchising tranche.

Services operated by amongst others
OLY - Olympia?
ASH - Ashcrofts?
ATG - Atlantic travel?
SWA - Swans?
GMS - ?? - not Stagecoach Manchester, they are listed as SM

Example listed

https://assets.ctfassets.net/nv7y93idf4jq/WkB4ZHnsTmC9WZpSan3dN/5424812bf3b444da02d6b8fff9154b63/Sale_Grammar_-_Schools_bus_timetables_-_From_September_2023.pdf

Edit - ATG could be Arriva, i did see a route learning vehicle not on a core route today. But ATG isnt the abbreviation previously used by them?