TfGM Tranche 3 speculation

[HSTEd]

Quite right - who cares about marketing. Dealer white with "BUS" stamped on the side is sufficient.

Honestly, that is probably fine.
Although all-over-grey would look rather better!

People don't take buses because of flashy marketing, they are normally distress purchases.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Yes, it is supposed to be built on the site of the Ambulance Station just off Travis Brow, but there is no sign of them vacating or anything happening. I guess there will have to be interim charging facilities at the old depot for the time being.

I believe that the ambulance station hopes to relocate neat to the Hazel Grove "turning point" according to what my son was told.

Honestly, that is probably fine.
Although all-over-grey would look rather better!

People don't take buses because of flashy marketing, they are normally distress purchases.

I still would have preferred a very light green colour with silver as the subsidiary colour.

 

[GusB]

We're starting to see the thread drifting (again).

If you wish to continue speculate about which operators will win franchises in Tranche 3, by all means carry on. If there's an existing thread covering the topic that you wish to discuss, use that; otherwise start a new thread.

Thank you

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Personally I just hope GNW don’t get anymore, their current operation is the poorest of the lot so far.

No plans to replace a load of old Ex London Vehicles and you know if they win anything else they’ll be drafting more 13 odd year old vehicles from their London operators. To think at one point they were going to use 2008 plate Optare Olympus Tridents - they just got lucky with taking on most of Diamonds Streetdecks, but failed to order enough new single deckers for Tranche 1.

Meanwhile Stagecoach are investing a huge amount into Tranche 2 in comparison!

Is it really that poor ? The Tfgm stats say that punctuality on the Bee Network services (which are mainly operated by Go NW at the moment) are much better than last year (pre franchise) and better than the incumbent operators in the rest of Manchester.

Yes they have some 13/14 year old buses but that is inevitable in the profile of any fleet - they have 50 new BYDs and 40 odd new single deckers so the average age of the fleet must be fairly low these days.

It’s good that Stagecoach have ordered so many new buses - it’s a long while since those areas had any new buses so it is well overdue. They will have a very young fleet of course but over time I’m sure that will even out. They will also have older buses too - the 20 omnideckers from Go NW and a similar number of E400 hybrids from Newcastle for example.

I'm not really seeing the issue with Go North West and their fleet. As with all the tranches, and T3 will be no different, they will have submitted a price and a quality response, and will be bound by certain performance indicators (as already mentioned) and obligations on fleet age. Having a balanced fleet profile makes a lot of sense, and whilst age is one consideration, the actual presentation of said fleet (internally and externally) is the more pressing concern.

People don't take buses because of flashy marketing, they are normally distress purchases.

You don't understand the marketing mix if you think that it's confined to a flashy livery. A flash image won't help a fundamentally poor product, and a good product won't be as successful if you act as demurely as a Victorian lady.


Coming back to the topic in hand, there are some strong industry rumours sweeping round that there will be a significant new player operating a substantial part of T3. Don't want to say much more as it is conjecture, and I'm always loath to add to the rumour mill.

Guess we'll just have to wait and see who gets what.

As an aside, were First to win some of the smaller franchises (as was mooted earlier on this thread), you could have the situation where they've finally offloaded the Oldham depot that they'd tried to sell when flogging Queens Road and Bolton, and almost have as many vehicles albeit elsewhere in the conurbation.

 

[Leyland Bus]

I'm not really seeing the issue with Go North West and their fleet. As with all the tranches, and T3 will be no different, they will have submitted a price and a quality response, and will be bound by certain performance indicators (as already mentioned) and obligations on fleet age. Having a balanced fleet profile makes a lot of sense, and whilst age is one consideration, the actual presentation of said fleet (internally and externally) is the more pressing concern.

You don't understand the marketing mix if you think that it's confined to a flashy livery. A flash image won't help a fundamentally poor product, and a good product won't be as successful if you act as demurely as a Victorian lady.


Coming back to the topic in hand, there are some strong industry rumours sweeping round that there will be a significant new player operating a substantial part of T3. Don't want to say much more as it is conjecture, and I'm always loath to add to the rumour mill.

Guess we'll just have to wait and see who gets what.

As an aside, were First to win some of the smaller franchises (as was mooted earlier on this thread), you could have the situation where they've finally offloaded the Oldham depot that they'd tried to sell when flogging Queens Road and Bolton, and almost have as many vehicles albeit elsewhere in the conurbation.

With a week and a half to go, it's going to be interesting. It is a speculation thread so it's the perfect place if you have any suggestions/wonderings of who it could be... I wonder if they've sat on the periphery and watched before making a bid?

If it is an outside player, that could spice things up with different management styles and ideas etc etc, could very well be a pull for some folk if they're more creative with wages etc... who knows! I've not seen an official date for the next announcement, the change over is a Sunday, would seem to be an odd day for an announcement, maybe the Friday prior??

 

[GusB]

A few posts which were discussing potential vehicle use under Tranche 3 have been moved here:

Been Network Tranche 3 - potential fleet involved

Personally I just hope GNW don’t get anymore, their current operation is the poorest of the lot so far. No plans to replace a load of old Ex London Vehicles and you know if they win anything else they’ll be drafting more 13 odd year old vehicles from their London operators. To think at one...

www.railforums.co.uk

This thread is for speculation about which operators are likely to win franchises under Tranche 3 and nothing else.

 

[baza585]

As an aside, were First to win some of the smaller franchises (as was mooted earlier on this thread), you could have the situation where they've finally offloaded the Oldham depot that they'd tried to sell when flogging Queens Road and Bolton, and almost have as many vehicles albeit elsewhere in the conurbation.

Interesting point. It would be fascinating though almost impossible to work out the financial flows when all the tranches have been let. We're First right to sell Queens Rd and Bolton or did GNE and aRotala pull their pants down and then sell to TfGM at a higher price.

Doubt we'll ever know.......

 

[Stan Drews]

I wonder if one of the major operators in the London area, not currently active in Manchester, might have taken a punt and been successful in this final tranche?

 

[Leyland Bus]

Interesting point. It would be fascinating though almost impossible to work out the financial flows when all the tranches have been let. We're First right to sell Queens Rd and Bolton or did GNE and aRotala pull their pants down and then sell to TfGM at a higher price.

Doubt we'll ever know.......

I think we do... and it's not the former...

 

[citybus2500]

I wonder if one of the major operators in the London area, not currently active in Manchester, might have taken a punt and been successful in this final tranche?

Indeed it probably is. And not a UK owned company at that.

I'm sure they will love running buses in South Manchester and Tameside

 

[Dallamlad]

Indeed it probably is. And not a UK owned company at that.

I'm sure they will love running buses in South Manchester and Tameside

Transport UK could be one (former Abellio) who are now British owned. They’ve been mentioned a few times in different places.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Transport UK could be one (former Abellio) who are now British owned. They’ve been mentioned a few times in different places.

Wasn't it said that they had elected not to bid because of the performance bond issue?

 

[KX03HZY]

Indeed it probably is. And not a UK owned company at that.

I'm sure they will love running buses in South Manchester and Tameside

Comfort Delgro springs to mind. They've had people working on a TfGM bid.

Their TfL services are run to a good standard I've always found, so if so it bodes well for the people of South GM.

 

[Dallamlad]

Wasn't it said that they had elected not to bid because of the performance bond issue?

Yes you’re absolutely right that was mentioned earlier in the thread. Well remembered!

 

[capitalpotter]

Once all the tranches have been awarded will the tender process be similar to London where certain routes are tendered rather than garages?

 

[Class 466]

Once all the tranches have been awarded will the tender process be similar to London where certain routes are tendered rather than garages?

I believe the plan is to stick to franchise 'lots' rather than breaking it down route by route - wouldn't be surprised if routes get moved between depots etc over time

 

[mangad]

I believe the plan is to stick to franchise 'lots' rather than breaking it down route by route - wouldn't be surprised if routes get moved between depots etc over time

There will have to be an element of 'lots' due to the large franchises coming with depots.

The interesting question is what will happen to the Small Franchises over time. Always got the feel that they were there for small operators, but that (so far) hasn't happened.

 

[mancbus]

I believe the plan is to stick to franchise 'lots' rather than breaking it down route by route - wouldn't be surprised if routes get moved between depots etc over time

Yeah they probably might test out other depots to see which ones would work out better on certain routes.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

This thread is for speculation about which operators are likely to win franchises under Tranche 3 and nothing else.

22nd March 2024 is the nominated day when all will be officially revealed.

 

[mangad]

22nd March 2024 is the nominated day when all will be officially revealed.

Let the frantic last minute wild speculation commence!

Stotts for Ashton large!
D&G for Stockport Small!
ComfortDelGro for Sharston!
Blackpool Transport for Hyde Road!

 

[Leyland Bus]

A

Let the frantic last minute wild speculation commence!

Stotts for Ashton large!
D&G for Stockport Small!
ComfortDelGro for Sharston!
Blackpool Transport for Hyde Road!

Funnily enough, alot of chatter internally saying ComfortDelGro (actually being bandied about as Metroline) for HE...

 

[mancbus]

Let the frantic last minute wild speculation commence!

Stotts for Ashton large!
D&G for Stockport Small!
ComfortDelGro for Sharston!
Blackpool Transport for Hyde Road!

I don't think Blackpool would bid

 

[GusB]

Funnily enough, a lot of chatter internally saying ComfortDelGro (actually being bandied about as Metroline) for HE...

ComfortDelgro did spring to mind when it was mentioned about potential newcomers to the bidding process.

I don't think Blackpool would bid

I suspect that comment was ever so slightly tongue-in-cheek. However, stranger things have happened!

 

[mancbus]

Abellio for Ashton large!
Stagecoach for Stockport large!
ComfortDelGro for Sharston
ComfortDelGro for Hyde Road!

 

[KendalKing]

Stagecoach I think will keep Stockport, I reckon that’s their focus

So too I

 

[Dallamlad]

Reports suggest the announcement has been delayed…

Staff at tranche 3 depots have been told.

 

[mancbus]

Reports suggest the announcement has been delayed…

Staff at tranche 3 depots have been told.

Attach the reports

Have been told the tranche 3 operators

What time tomorrow will they be announced?

 

[Leyland Bus]

Chatter from colleagues at other depots suggests Stagecoach for Stockport and ComfortDelGro the rest re:large depots... not confirmed yet mind...

 

[Class 466]

Seen this shared elsewhere- maybe a legal challenge has delayed it?
(Image shows poster advising that Tranche 3 announcement has been delayed)

 

[Leyland Bus]

Seen this shared elsewhere- maybe a legal challenge has delayed it?

If someone has bid better than you (and it's sealed bids so in theory only TfGM know) then surely it's a bit petty to be trying to overturn it after the last 2 went through okay?