TfL considers Taylor Swift-style 'dynamic pricing' for Tube journeys

[jon81uk]

What’s to stop me or any other hybrid worker just changing my office days to add Friday and drop another day instead?

Thats what TfL want you to do, more travel and spending on Fridays, maybe making Thursday quieter.

 

[bcarmicle]

Doesn’t that just decrease revenue though, if the number of trips don’t change but the average fare paid does? The point here must be to encourage trips that otherwise wouldn’t have been taken.

 

[takno]

Doesn’t that just decrease revenue though, if the number of trips don’t change but the average fare paid does? The point here must be to encourage trips that otherwise wouldn’t have been taken.

There are probably trips being suppressed on busier days which could now happen if there is more space, and even if there isn't, moving some of the traffic onto quieter trains on a Friday may allow them to get away with a slightly less intense service on other days. There are huge benefits to smoothing out peak traffic regardless of whether the immediate revenue change is negative.

 

[telstarbox]

I think you can see an analogy with supermarkets. People used to all head to Tesco on a Saturday and they would need many checkouts and parking spaces just to accommodate this weekly spike in demand. Now more people work flexibly so they go during the week, use click and collect or online delivery. While the overall revenue is similar, it 'lands' in a more even way and the costs of serving the customers go down.

 

[LUYMun]

Would this mean that Travelcards become off-peak all day on Fridays?

 

[Mojo]

Press release issued by TfL confirms that the Off-peak Friday fares trial will commence next Friday (8th March) and run through until 31st May. It will apply to all Contactless and Oyster Pay As You Go fares, except for those between Heathrow and Zone 1, and the Off-peak cap will also apply all day on Fridays.

This will apply to all rail modes, including National Rail.

 

[MikeWh]

except for those between Heathrow and Zone 1

Although they didn't say it, Express fares to Gatwick and Heathrow also won't be reduced as they are also peak 7 days a week.

 

[pwharley]

Would this mean that Travelcards become off-peak all day on Fridays?

The reports I've seen in certain media today say that One Day Off-Peak Travelcards are NOT included in the scheme.

 

[MikeWh]

Only applies to PAYG fares and caps.

 

[nickswift99]

If you wanted to go down this route (and I very much doubt that it would happen) it would be easy enough these days to have displays letting people know the current state of play.
You'd presumably have to base prices on when someone tapped in otherwise it would be somewhat unreasonable.

But you wouldn't know where the passenger was going so couldn't display a price (unlike Uber). You could possibly display a charging band (peak/off-peak) but even that would be complex for passengers to understand as they'd need to know what the different fares were. Then you have the problem of someone tapping, realising it's peak and and then not passing through the gates.

 

[Cdd89]

It won't, because this sort of journey isn't time flexible. Nor are most Uber journeys - as I said above surge pricing there isn't to manage demand (why would they care if people had to wait longer for a cab?) but rather to allow drivers to be offered higher pay to come out and up the service to cope.

It will either raise revenue, or reduce passenger loadings in peaks; both wins for TfL. By definition it cannot do neither.

 

[AdamWW]

But you wouldn't know where the passenger was going so couldn't display a price (unlike Uber). You could possibly display a charging band (peak/off-peak) but even that would be complex for passengers to understand as they'd need to know what the different fares were. Then you have the problem of someone tapping, realising it's peak and and then not passing through the gates.

You could just have a simple multiplier or add-on

Tap in now and it's 50% more than the base price, or £2 supplement, for example.

Don't know how that would play with capping though.

Maybe the base price is capped but not supplements.

It would be easy enough to show alongside live departure boards on-line, so you can go and do something else and know when it's time to come back.*

I do not think that any of this is actually the right way for a transport system to go though.

* And if that means too many people are going and sitting in coffee shops, they can just implement surge pricing too.

 

[Haywain]

Only applies to PAYG fares and caps.

Will that be all PAYG administered by TfL, including the wider contactless area (Gatwick/Reading/Luton Airport)?

 

[Mojo]

Only applies to PAYG fares and caps.

It also applies to 60+ Oyster passes and OAP Freedom Passes which will also become valid at any time on Fridays, within their usual area of validity.

Will that be all PAYG administered by TfL, including the wider contactless area (Gatwick/Reading/Luton Airport)?

One of the examples given in the press release is a journey from Epsom to Waterloo, so I would perhaps assume from that it could be possible to include all routes given Epsom isn’t in Greater London, although this is not exactly clear as I believe technically Epsom is in zone 9, even though it is not advertised as such

 

[MikeWh]

It also applies to 60+ Oyster passes and OAP Freedom Passes which will also become valid at any time on Fridays, within their usual area of validity.

Yes, but I was responding to the question of travelcards.

One of the examples given in the press release is a journey from Epsom to Waterloo, so I would perhaps assume from that it could be possible to include all routes given Epsom isn’t in Greater London, although this is not exactly clear as I believe technically Epsom is in zone 9, even though it is not advertised as such

It will be all PAYG fares. The notes to editors points to the London Rail and Tube map as indicating where PAYG is valid.

 

[Haywain]

It will be all PAYG fares.

That's really good news.