TfL proposes to withdraw Day Travelcards

[Skimpot flyer]

You're paying twice if you travel from outwith the Oyster/contactless PAYG area though, unless you go to the inconvenience of stepping back a train to touch in at the 'boundary' station. It's unreasonable that people are expected to delay their journey (quite considerably so, if they have to switch to a stopping train) to merely equal the current arrangements.

Of course, the "you pay for what you use" model with PAYG suits TfL very well. It means there's no requirement to provide (free) alternative transport if the service is up the creek, and they get to charge extra if you take a more expensive route due to disruption too. Little wonder they plug PAYG so heavily.

They also got to charge extra during August’s part-closures of the Bakerloo Line.
Anyone changing at Willesden to the Watford DC lines (shared by Bakerloo trains) had to tap out, then tap in on the Rail Replacement Buses.
This was one example where a paper Travelcard meant no additional cost!

 

[Mojo]

Anyone changing at Willesden to the Watford DC lines (shared by Bakerloo trains) had to tap out, then tap in on the Rail Replacement Buses.

How did this work? You can’t tap in on rail replacement buses, or do you just mean regular buses that run alongside the rail line?

I know SWT put some standalone validators at some of their stations for use with replacement buses but not on LU.

 

[Skimpot flyer]

How did this work? You can’t tap in on rail replacement buses, or do you just mean regular buses that run alongside the rail line?

I know SWT put some standalone validators at some of their stations for use with replacement buses but not on LU.

TfL used their own red buses / bus providers and had numbered temporary routes (718/719/720, I seem to remember). Some peak buses served Wembley Park on the Metropolitan/Jubilee lines, for handy connectivity

 

[miklcct]

TfL used their own red buses / bus providers and had numbered temporary routes (718/719/720, I seem to remember). Some peak buses served Wembley Park on the Metropolitan/Jubilee lines, for handy connectivity

That means they were effectively service buses where standard bus fares were charged (I presume National Rail tickets were accepted, right?) rather than rail replacement buses, am I correct?

 

[JonathanH]

They also got to charge extra during August’s part-closures of the Bakerloo Line.
Anyone changing at Willesden to the Watford DC lines (shared by Bakerloo trains) had to tap out, then tap in on the Rail Replacement Buses.
This was one example where a paper Travelcard meant no additional cost!

That analogy doesn't work because the bus journeys were still covered by capping, so a passenger doesn't lose out relative to having a travelcard.

 

[Wolfie]

That analogy doesn't work because the bus journeys were still covered by capping, so a passenger doesn't lose out relative to having a travelcard.

Would a passenger always reach the capping level in such circumstances?

 

[JonathanH]

Would a passenger always reach the capping level in such circumstances?

The capping level is always less than a travelcard, inboundary at least, disregarding railcards that can't be put on Oyster.

 

[DeverseSam]

The capping level is always less than a travelcard, inboundary at least, disregarding railcards that can't be put on Oyster.

isn’t there something about the paper travelcard having 28 hour validity but the capping being based on 24

 

[island]

isn’t there something about the paper travelcard having 28 hour validity but the capping being based on 24

Although it’s true that a one day Travelcard can be valid for 28.5 hours from 0000 on day 1 to 0429 on day 2*, as opposed to capping which is valid from 0430 on day 1 to 0429 on day 2, it is only in unlikely or contrived scenarios that one can derive a benefit from this.

*if day 1 is a Saturday, Sunday, or bank holiday or it is an Anytime Travelcard

 

[MikeWh]

The capping level is always less than a travelcard, inboundary at least, disregarding railcards that can't be put on Oyster.

I think that the inference was that a normal rail journey fare which woudn't reach the cap might be increased, while still not reaching the cap. Bear in mind that TfL fares outside zone 1 are very reasonable off-peak such that you need to make several journeys to reach the cap. You might remember that this was Johnson's reason for abolishing the zone 2-6 cap/travelcard, completely ignoring the fact that on National Rail you didn't have to make 6 journeys to reach the cap.

 

[Joe Paxton]

I think that the inference was that a normal rail journey fare which woudn't reach the cap might be increased, while still not reaching the cap. Bear in mind that TfL fares outside zone 1 are very reasonable off-peak such that you need to make several journeys to reach the cap. You might remember that this was Johnson's reason for abolishing the zone 2-6 cap/travelcard, completely ignoring the fact that on National Rail you didn't have to make 6 journeys to reach the cap.

Re the abolition of the zone 2-6 Day Travelcard and daily cap, I clearly recall one argument being put forward that so few paper zone 2-6 Day Travelcards were sold it proved there was little need for the product - but this was a wonderfully misleading argument, as it (I think quite intentionally) ignored how many passengers benefitted from the zones 2-6 daily cap.

I was a big fan of the zones 2-6 Day Travelcard and daily cap - it'd be great if it were to make a comeback (well, the cap at least), but given the parlous state of TfL's finances it's not something that might be on the agenda anytime soon.

 

[DeverseSam]

unlikely or contrived scenarios

I think I’m in the right place, I think this forum thrives on these!

 

[Mike395]

As the news is emerging that Travelcards have been saved, it's a good point to split the thread and stop it getting too long. Please continue the discussion here.