TfW restoring most of its pre-March 2020 TT from 13/9

[PHILIPE]

Did the buses arrive to transport the passengers onwards to their destinations ?
It was obviously a unpredictable situation with the circumstances of an ongoing emergency incident, TFW had no control of the closure and the traincrew only follow what TFW control tell them to do.

Buses did arrive eventually but I don't know the length of the time they had to wait. Some years ago in my working days passengers were not be left at an unstaffed station.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Were the passengers given the option of returning to Chester with the train? If not, I hope it wasn’t for some “ railway operational convenience” reason!

The train would probably have to go on to Flint Junction to reverse anyway, on the new bi-di signalling.
The incident was apparently in Chester Road at Flint, which runs through the town about 50 yards from the railway.
The body was found after a search (the man had been missing for 3 weeks).

 

[Parallel]

Was speaking to a TFW employee today who was updating the posters at Bidston station for the new timetable. The timetable started Yesterday, and they are only just putting out the posters now. They haven’t to my recollection even put them online yet.

he told me that when engineering works were taking placing one time, he was putting the posters (which informed passengers no trains were running) up along the Bidston - Wrexham route in the middle of the week that the engineering works were taking place, and had to inform bewildered passengers who had no idea their train would be a rail replacement bus. TFW seem to be very laid back at getting information out - especially with informing passengers information - I made a thread about a booked train failing to stop at Conwy and there was absolutely no announcement to the 15 or so people waiting for the train.

they have some good ideas - but their customer relations need to improve and fast.

I must emphasise that the frontline workers and those behind the scenes answering the phones and the tweets are exemplary staff and my issue lies with those up top.

This is very poor to be honest.

However there is no PA/equipment to make announcements at Conwy although that wouldn’t have necessarily helped here as I’ve heard it announced at Shrewsbury that Conwy was a calling point for a three car 175 service when the train wasn’t going to stop there because of its length.

My pet peeve is quite often when services have been cancelled, TfW seem to delete them off the system causing confusion and giving the impression that the train never existed.

I’m also intrigued how they will resource this timetable improvement as they seem to struggle even with the reduced timetable.

 

[wobman]

This is very poor to be honest.

However there is no PA/equipment to make announcements at Conwy although that wouldn’t have necessarily helped here as I’ve heard it announced at Shrewsbury that Conwy was a calling point for a three car 175 service when the train wasn’t going to stop there because of its length.

My pet peeve is quite often when services have been cancelled, TfW seem to delete them off the system causing confusion and giving the impression that the train never existed.


I’m also intrigued how they will resource this timetable improvement as they seem to struggle even with the reduced timetable.

The experience I've had is the conductors announce that the service won't be stopping at Conwy whilst approaching Llandudno junction, it was better that way due to passengers getting onboard at Colwyn bay.

Then explaining alternative transportation would be provided for passengers wanting Conwy was the norm during covid restrictions, Glady things have returned to normal now regarding Conwy / Llanfair PG and Valley stops.

 

[AGH]

Chester to Manchester via Warrington have ceased stopping at Earlestown and Newton Le Willows during peak in both directions now as opposed to Covid where it did in the morning only. Did on Monday, didnt on Tuesday. Was 4 car 175 on Monday and 5 car 175 since. No explanation or advanced warning. All peak now for those stations (bar a sole Northern return) now go via Victoria with no direct / fast Airport link. Flew past this morning less than half full. Strange decision

 

[craigybagel]

I’m also intrigued how they will resource this timetable improvement as they seem to struggle even with the reduced timetable.

There's a few factors at play.

Firstly, sometimes a reduction in service doesn't actually reduce the amount of staff required. The TfW timetable was already pretty well optimised to use limited resources in the best possible way - reducing the service levels actually made it less efficient as staff weren't necessarily in the right place to work their next train as the train they needed to get there was no longer running.

In the Covid timetable, one of the jobs at our depot featured five hours of shunting units at a major station. Normally those units would ruin though, but during Covid they were terminating and needed shunting. Now those 5 hours are spent working one of the reinstated round trips instead.

Also, some of the longer breaks in our jobs whilst we waited for a train to work back have been shortened; again, much more efficient.

Finally, it's no longer the summer holidays, so there are much fewer staff on annual leave than a few weeks ago.

 

[PHILIPE]

Chester to Manchester via Warrington have ceased stopping at Earlestown and Newton Le Willows during peak in both directions now as opposed to Covid where it did in the morning only. Did on Monday, didnt on Tuesday. Was 4 car 175 on Monday and 5 car 175 since. No explanation or advanced warning. All peak now for those stations (bar a sole Northern return) now go via Victoria with no direct / fast Airport link. Flew past this morning less than half full. Strange decision

TFWs response to the question via Twitter:-

The changes have been made in response to the Manchester Recovery Task Force consultation.

But TFW have not communicated it to their customers.

 

[craigybagel]

It's been a while since I signed it but I don't think a 5 car set fits into Newton le willows?

 

[AGH]

TPE are 5 car but have SDO. since as long as I can remember the peak TFW have been 4 car max. They used to run a 4 car MK3 with a 67 pre covid on selected services. However on Monday when it did stop it was 4 car. Only been 5 since not stopping but even pre covid it never needed 5 car. The Manchester task force reference is a red herring. Timings are unchanged and still uses castlefield. They just sit at Bank Quay or Chester now if early. It makes no sense. Northern is taking the brunt as a result.

 

[PHILIPE]

Fun and games today with 1730 Manchester Airport to Holyhead (Load 5) with more than one punter complaining that the front 2 coaches being full and standing and the rear 3 empty and which are booked to detach at Chester.. TFW replied by saying it was due to platform lengths and even posted a comment on Journey Check saying "Overcrowded from Oxford Rd". As it is not booked (very hush hush up thread) to call at Newton-le-Willows that can only leave Helsby and Frodsham (Warrington OK) but I do not know the lengths of these stations personally. I saw a copy of the diagrams in advance and it was booked for a 175/0 and 175/1 (5). Perhaps somebody could, if possible please, confirm the up to date diagrammed formation and I'm inclined to agree about the red herring suggestion.

 

[Philip]

Most of the Manchester to Chester diagrams appear to be 3-car 175s now, whereas beforehand they were mostly 2-car units. Have some Manchester to South Wales diagrams gone back down to 2-car units to allow for this?

 

[Caaardiff]

TPE are 5 car but have SDO. since as long as I can remember the peak TFW have been 4 car max. They used to run a 4 car MK3 with a 67 pre covid on selected services. However on Monday when it did stop it was 4 car. Only been 5 since not stopping but even pre covid it never needed 5 car. The Manchester task force reference is a red herring. Timings are unchanged and still uses castlefield. They just sit at Bank Quay or Chester now if early. It makes no sense. Northern is taking the brunt as a result.

TfW were asked to reduce services at peak times. Wasn't there previously a 1620 out if Chester to Piccadily? Because of that reduction they were asked to strengthen another service.
There seems no logic though because strengthening the service has meant taking out those stops mentioned, which are very popular, meaning the extra capacity isn't really needed anyway.
Bizarre decision, and a kick in the teeth for passengers seeing an empty 3 car while crammed into a 2 car.

Most of the Manchester to Chester diagrams appear to be 3-car 175s now, whereas beforehand they were mostly 2-car units. Have some Manchester to South Wales diagrams gone back down to 2-car units to allow for this?

No, many of the Marches diagrams are still 3 car.
The Holyhead-Shrewsbury diagrams which are now Holyhead-Cardiff/Maesteg are now covered by Mk4s and 2 car 175s or a 158.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

There must be more units available since extra Mk4s were put on the Marches route.
2-car 175s outnumbered 3-car on the Chester-Manchester run on Monday.
Do the Northern Chester-Victoria trains now stop at Earlestown/Newton-le-Willows to compensate?

Platform lengths (metres) in the SA:
Helsby 139/84
Frodsham 156/158
Runcorn East 183/183 (8x23m!)
Earlestown P4/5 145/112
Newton le Willows 106/108

So 5x23m won't work at Helsby P2, Newton le Willows and maybe Earlestown P5.
On TPE services (5-car 802) at Newton le Willows, passengers are asked to move to the front 3 coaches to leave.

RTT tells you what formation is planned to be in use.
All the trains today (AW/NT) are booked 2/3/4-car - no 5-car.

 

[Caaardiff]

From what i can tell these are the booked diagrams for 175's.

2 Car
CDF-HHD x2
CDF-MAN x2
CTR-MAN x4
3 Car
CDF-HHD x1
CDF-MAN x10
CTR-MAN x3

 

[PHILIPE]

There must be more units available since extra Mk4s were put on the Marches route.
2-car 175s outnumbered 3-car on the Chester-Manchester run on Monday.
Do the Northern Chester-Victoria trains now stop at Earlestown/Newton-le-Willows to compensate?

Platform lengths (metres) in the SA:
Helsby 139/84
Frodsham 156/158
Runcorn East 183/183
Earlestown P4/5 145/112
Newton le Willows 106/108

So 5x23m won't work at Helsby P2, Newton le Willows and maybe Earlestown P5.
On TPE services (5-car 802) at Newton le Willows, passengers are asked to move to the front 3 coaches to leave.

RTT tells you what formation is planned to be in use.
All the trains today (AW/NT) are booked 2/3/4-car - no 5-car.

The train which caused all the fuss yesterday (1D32) is allocated to 175111 and 175002 today and 175112 and 175005 have also worked such a pairing on 1D34 today. Thanks for the platform length details

 

[Caaardiff]

The train which caused all the fuss yesterday (1D32) is allocated to 175111 and 175002 today and 175112 and 175005 have also worked such a pairing on 1D34 today. Thanks for the platform length details

Looking at National Rail that service today appears to be running from Manchester Oxford Rd non-stop to Warrington. Omitting NLW and Earlestown. I'm guessing yesterday was a mistake in the calling pattern?

 

[PHILIPE]

Looking at National Rail that service today appears to be running from Manchester Oxford Rd non-stop to Warrington. Omitting NLW and Earlestown. I'm guessing yesterday was a mistake in the calling pattern?

This conversation originally kicked off regarding the withdrawal of peak time stops at NLW and Earlestown from the September Timetable and also for TFW not bothering to inform people of the alteration. Post #67 explains why and obtained through questions via Twitter.

Thanks for the breakdown of 175 duties but may I add another 2 Car namely 1 CTR to LPL or is it just temporary to allow the 2 x 153s to be available for Coast strengthening which was introduced early in the Summer

 

[mrd269697]

Not like TFW to mess up informing customers of changes to train times or calling patterns…

 

[PHILIPE]

Not like TFW to mess up informing customers of changes to train times or calling patterns…

Their attitude is to tell people to check their journey in Journey Planning Systems or Apps before travelling.

 

[The exile]

Their attitude is to tell people to check their journey in Journey Planning Systems or Apps before travelling.
Which is pretty useless if you’re wanting an overview ( what sort of time of day is good to make my journey because there is a more frequent service type thing) or your requirements don’t fit a journey planner’s blinkered view of what people ought to want.

 

[PHILIPE]

Their attitude is to tell people to check their journey in Journey Planning Systems or Apps before travelling.
Which is pretty useless if you’re wanting an overview ( what sort of time of day is good to make my journey because there is a more frequent service type thing) or your requirements don’t fit a journey planner’s blinkered view of what people ought to want.

This reminds me of TFWs Capacity Checker Gimmick Tool to find what are supposed to be the quietest times and trains to use. Again that is not much use if somebody has to start work at a certain time and when they need to catch a train.

 

[Kite159]

This reminds me of TFWs Capacity Checker Gimmick Tool to find what are supposed to be the quietest times and trains to use. Again that is not much use if somebody has to start work at a certain time and when they need to catch a train.

Or when all the trains listed are red other than a handful at the very start/end of the day. Ie Crewe to Manchester.

 

[Philip]

From what i can tell these are the booked diagrams for 175's.

2 Car
CDF-HHD x2
CDF-MAN x2
CTR-MAN x4
3 Car
CDF-HHD x1
CDF-MAN x10
CTR-MAN x3

In terms of Manchester to South Wales, it looks like the 06:30 and 10:30 departures from Manchester are booked for the 2-car, along with one of the 08:30 and 09:30 departures. It doesn't look like any day this week has had 10 x 3-car units on the route. Also some days have had 4 x 3-car on the Manchester-Chester route, including today.

 

[AGH]

In answer to the above the Northern Leeds - Chester do but we're supposed to be in addition to TFW. Some Northern don't however stop between Warrington and Chester so at times between them you have a full stopping service.The pre covid stats had Newton Le Willows at 0.978 million passengers per year so an odd station to miss out.

 

[Anonymous10]

South of Hereford maybe yes..

Nothing changing in the ‘North’ apart from reinstatement of some Holyhead-Cardiff services south beyond Shrewsbury. Still no Llandudno-Manchester, Liverpool remain 2 hourly, Blaenau remains reduced and Bidston remain slightly reduced. A couple of 158s will be saved with the Cambrian Coast being closed so that should reduce the necessity for 150 substitutions on the Marches/Birmingham etc.

nothing changing for west either pembroke dock still stops at 7 where used to continue till 10

 

[mrd269697]

Noticed there are four hour gaps in the timetables Monday - Friday at Shotton low level. Very unusual. I find it odd that all trains don’t stop there anyway considering it serves one of the largest conurbations on the entire line. No southbound service Monday - Friday between approximately 1330 and 1700, and similar northbound. Saturdays however is broadly hourly. The four hour southbound gap on a sundays between 1200 and 1600 is also still present. This even seems the be reduced from the may timetable, which is very poor.

 

[PHILIPE]

Regarding the late PDFs and Booklets TFW published this yesterday:-

• September 2021 Timetables booklets
  Due to late notice improvements to train times, the issue of timetable booklets and some station posters has been delayed.

 

[Foxcover]

Noticed there are four hour gaps in the timetables Monday - Friday at Shotton low level. Very unusual. I find it odd that all trains don’t stop there anyway considering it serves one of the largest conurbations on the entire line. No southbound service Monday - Friday between approximately 1330 and 1700, and similar northbound. Saturdays however is broadly hourly. The four hour southbound gap on a sundays between 1200 and 1600 is also still present. This even seems the be reduced from the may timetable, which is very poor.

Agreed; regular Shotton service/connections also critical to maximising growth on the Borderlands line, given the investment and focus being made there (see separate thread).

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Noticed there are four hour gaps in the timetables Monday - Friday at Shotton low level. Very unusual. I find it odd that all trains don’t stop there anyway considering it serves one of the largest conurbations on the entire line. No southbound service Monday - Friday between approximately 1330 and 1700, and similar northbound. Saturdays however is broadly hourly. The four hour southbound gap on a sundays between 1200 and 1600 is also still present. This even seems the be reduced from the may timetable, which is very poor.

There's also the nonsense of 3 trains chasing each other from Chester to Holyhead mid-morning (and returning early afternoon).
1103 TfW (from Manchester)
1113 Avanti (from London)
1124 TfW (from Birmingham)

Looks like most of the Mk4 services have been cancelled today (the evening northbound Gerald still seems to be operating*).

~* and terminating at Chester.

 

[berneyarms]

There's also the nonsense of 3 trains chasing each other from Chester to Holyhead mid-morning (and returning early afternoon).
1103 TfW (from Manchester)
1113 Avanti (from London)
1124 TfW (from Birmingham)

Looks like most of the Mk4 services have been cancelled today (the evening northbound Gerald still seems to be operating).

Two of those are the daytime "boat trains" from London and Manchester to connect with the ferries to/from Dublin at Holyhead. The Manchester train is redirected from Llandudno to Holyhead to cope with potential extra loadings.

The third service is an all stations stopper from Prestatyn onwards.